Any grind, is in your mind.

[Ian Skippy]

Because poeple do to get to their objective in the quickest possible time. It's boring and self imposed. Nobody is forced to do anything they don't want to. If you find what you are doing boring do something else.

Heh, he played a little trick. If he claims 'boring' is what defines grind, then there is no objective grind as 'boring' is a subjective appreciation of something. I'd find him a grind. Others may find life itself a grind, or the act of sitting down. It reduces it to a totallyt meaningless term, beyond providing him with a vehicle to spread more whining.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It has the option to do so, whether or not you take up that offer is on your shoulders (generally speaking, not personally you good sir o7)

OK let me take trading for example. Instantly boring. The moment I did it I was already bored of it. The thing is, I've played better trading games on my Amiga 500 back in the day so why is it ED has done so poorly here - they need to do a much better job imo - the game mechanics in ED are way too childish. I'm not a kid anymore, I want more thought out, grown up gameplay. We all know it can be done too.

So it's not an option really at all. Once you have done one thing, like trading and found it boring, who is actually wasting their time doing it? I'll never trade unless the trading game changes. I'll never mine unless the mining game changes.

My question is, why bother settling for these basic, thoughless game mechanics when we should be demanding for more. Instead, we got Engineers weeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

Games don't get to be called "shallow" or "a mile wide, inch deep" for nothing. ED has that rep because that's what it is. Of course some people will like it, but they're a huge minority.

Make Elite Dangerous GRATE again! LOLOL


"Grab 'em by the heatsinks!"

 

[Crash1099]

I play Elite Dangerous for 2 years.
I wanna have a Corvette NOW!

Is this wrong? Do i really have to wait another 2 years?

Sry but i don't like your oppinion. The game IS a hole grind [blah]

Good think i did tons of donation missions. lol

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

OK let me take trading for example. Instantly boring. The moment I did it I was already bored of it. The thing is, I've played better trading games on my Amiga 500 back in the day so why is it ED has done so poorly here - they need to do a much better job imo - the game mechanics in ED are way too childish. I'm not a kid anymore, I want more thought out, grown up gameplay. We all know it can be done too.

So it's not an option really at all. Once you have done one thing, like trading and found it boring, who is actually wasting their time doing it? I'll never trade unless the trading game changes. I'll never mine unless the mining game changes.

My question is, why bother settling for these basic, thoughless game mechanics when we should be demanding for more. Instead, we got Engineers weeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

Games don't get to be called "shallow" or "a mile wide, inch deep" for nothing. ED has that rep because that's what it is. Of course some people will like it, but they're a huge minority.

Make Elite Dangerous GRATE again! LOLOL


"Grab 'em by the heatsinks!"

The thing is, a lot of people enjoy trading. I do agree that it can be improved, just like nearly all facets of the game can be. And I am sure they will be in time.

 

[Troy_McClure]

Still not 100% sure what grind means. If it means doing repetitive tasks for some time, there is grind in ED. Of course there is. The thing is, as long as that effort gets rewarded and is worth it.

When I am travelling 10s of thousands of lightyears, I do so because I really really want to get somewhere because of reasons. I know what grind lies ahead of me and I know what I have to do to get there. So I might be grinding hops for some time, but the reward is the destination. And I knew beforehand I'd be grinding those hops.

Where I do understand the complaints, it's when RNG rears it's ugly head. Then you're signing up for an amount of grind, destination unknown. You're putting lots of effort in a roll of a dice. And being an explorer I can smugly go: well, then don't do engineering, but the explorer's advantage is that it isn't a competitive sport.

Don't straddle that fence for too long Zippy..it's bad for your macadamias!

 

[Jex =TE=]

Because poeple do to get to their objective in the quickest possible time. It's boring and self imposed. Nobody is forced to do anything they don't want to. If you find what you are doing boring do something else.

So ED should take a leaf out of your book and code something else then as so many people who are still here find many elements of the game boring. That's on ED, nobody else. Loads of people left the game because it was "boring" so the issue isn't with people that find it boring, it's with ED for making it boring.

You can't seriously tell me that trading is fun. Or, if YOU find it fun, surely you can recognise how simple and mind numbing it is?

 

[GodBlock]

Of course some people will like it, but they're a huge silent majority.

Fixed it for you good sir, please don't project, it's unbecoming of anyone

 

[Ian Phillips]

<snip>
Of course some people will like it, but they're a huge minority.
<snip>

LOL

At what point does a "Huge Minority" become a majority?

 

[fruitbat]

Reading all of this thread was a grind.

 

[KR4K40]

Really? Do people need to spell everything out here? Okay:

1) You can go away when you think you may be killed
2) If you want to be all manly manly and only 'fight till death', you can take a cheaper ship. PvP leagues in ED generally do not involve 1bil ships
3) If you insist on dying, and insist on only flying 1bil ships, at least acknowledge that is your own choice.

"Life is just one big grind, I have to work 23 hours a day!"
"What for? If you work eight you already have all you need?"
"No, I want to throw Ipads out of the window, thats my favourite past-time and its so expensive!"
"..."

1)Not against a Cutter. many factors in play in any situation anyway
2)I wonder why...
3)You're god damn right it is my choice

My whole point is that the game does not offer money making opportunities for those big ships. Any game where there is progression there is scaling. Here the only activities that scale are bulk trading and mining.

I'm a billionaire at this point, it's my right to throw ipads and BMWs off my penthouse on the 43rd floor of my own tower with my name spelled on it in gold letters.

 

[Robbeh]

I'm going to have to agree with Deadspin here, too many people seem to be attempting to package all the negative "grind" complaints as petty reasoning in order to easily dismiss them.
While I don't deny that there are indeed a multitude of petty "whine" threads on these forums (and reddit, steam etc) this does not discount the entire factor of grind in ED...

I personally (probably foolishly) spent the entire beta and gamma period of the original ED release in my Sidewinder as I did not want to progress too far in the game before the meaningful gameplay mechanics were added. I avoided the early easy money "exploits" such as unlimited rare trading so that I didn't artificially inflate my bank balance. I was in no hurry to progress in rank or get into the biggest baddest ship. Following the disappointment of the rather barebones initial release I decided that I would just play the game as an extended beta and then reset my character once the gameplay advanced to the levels FD initially portrayed in the original dev blogs and DDF discussions.

And I still find ED to be a grind.

Why you ask? Because mechanically it is.

No matter what profession you choose, the gameplay mechanics never advance beyond their introductory basics. Trading, exploration and combat have the same complexity for a day one harmless noob as they do for a day 600 Elite veteran. Sure the difficulty may vary depending on the tools you choose to use or the mode you choose to play within, but the game mechanics themselves never advance in complexity or challenge. If you had the time and endurance you can quite literally become "Elite" through trading fish or killing harmless eagles in a shieldless Sidey...

For me personally, this completely hollows out the sense of accomplishment or progression, you do the same actions enough times and eventually a label changes... Big woop.

This is what leads to players setting aims for themselves in order to keep playing, eg: achieve X amount of credit balance or acquire and fit ship Y. However, the only way to achieve these things is to repeat the same basic, bland, repetitive actions over and over again until you either burn out or "achieve" your target.
Sure, you can mix it up a bit in an attempt to keep things fresh - Do a bit of trading between combat sorties or head out into the depths on an exploration trip. But thats kinda like saying if you get bored of watching paint dry then you can go watch the toilet flush for a few hours instead. You are simply swapping one basic, repetitive action for another...

This is where the grind is, it is quite literally the journey required to reach whatever destination. There is no personal improvement or development required, just simple, mindless endurance and repetition.

 

[goemon]

i don't think, everybody who says "grind" means something "negative".

i prepared ~100 L4/L5 upgrades in the two weeks before 2.2. went live.

that was grinding. but very satisfying. i had left the bubble before 2.1.05 with its new blueprints, *3 rule and HGE, so it was even surprisingly easy.

i do mountaineering as a hobby.

do you need to climb a mountain?

do you need to do a long tour, concluding with the boring way down ... the last 5 km back to the bus station?

it's part of the experience.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't straddle that fence for too long Zippy..it's bad for your macadamias!

I thought I was pretty specific there

 

[Ian Skippy]

1)Not against a Cutter. many factors in play in any situation anyway
2)I wonder why...
3)You're god damn right it is my choice

My whole point is that the game does not offer money making opportunities for those big ships. Any game where there is progression there is scaling. Here the only activities that scale are bulk trading and mining.

I'm a billionaire at this point, it's my right to throw ipads and BMWs off my penthouse on the 43rd floor of my own tower with my name spelled on it in gold letters.

Sure, its your right. Do what you want. Why would I even care? I am just pointing out that you are responsible for your own choices. If you feel its your right to throw BMWs off your penthouse, go nuts. But please dont go around complaining how expensive that is, or accept people will point out you are a silly goose.

 

[Martian Successor]

I'm just going to stop you right there because your entire theory is based off of multiple assumptions.

1: That Frontier designed ED to be played like it was in the 80s.
2: That the majority of people complaining about "the grind" are impatient "want it now" types.
3: That your way of playing the game is the absolute correct way of playing the game.

1: It's just not true or we'd have true Newtonian flight like the original games and not a trumped up arcade flight mechanic with artificial limits on speed and maneuverability to keep things equal. It's not a single player game, though it can be played solo, it's designed in such a way as to encourage the use of all facets of the game while not meaning to punish you for skipping out on any single one, though engineers has proven that it will do just that.

2: There are "want it now" types in here but that's not who's doing the majority of the complaining. People play games to enjoy them and some people require a sense of achievement to reach that enjoyment. Spending 5-6 hours of your week looking for parts that may or may not show up randomly in a handful of places does not lend itself to either a sense of achievement or enjoyment. Personally, as someone who spent years training skill books in EVE Online, as well being very open about my distaste for the grind in this game, I am well acquainted with the amount of patience required to wait years to have what I want, while openly building my reserves and meeting my "joy" needs in other areas of the game. So you can kindly shove that line of thought where the sun doesn't shine.

3: None of us are ever right where this kind of thought is concerned. Everyone plays their own way. To berate any one single player for not playing the game the way you do or the way you think it should be done is asinine. Some people want the biggest and, by perception, best ships in the game as fast as possible just because. Some people think they need them to be better at BGS/CG activities (Though, arguably, the Cutter is pretty much the best CG ship). Others want the ship that best fits the current DPS meta, the best ship for the exploration meta, trade, mining and so on.

Like I said in a post yesterday about rank grinding. If we only had one grind, I wouldn't mind it at all, but we have grind on top of grind on top of grind in this game. Anything you want to do outside of RP or basic mission running, comes with a grind.

Well said.

 

[Jex =TE=]

The thing is, a lot of people enjoy trading. I do agree that it can be improved, just like nearly all facets of the game can be. And I am sure they will be in time.

And loads of people don't lol and tbh, the people that find it fun aren't the people I want having any say in the game because it's not gameplay. If anything, I think it and other mechanics are detrimental to the game. Instead of adding naff stuff like CQC and Engineers, why not try making the core gameplay better so when people buy the game, they aren't shelving it 2 weeks later.

I just checked the Steam reviews for Horizons and ED - ED has over 16,000 reviews (mixed) but what happened to Horizons. There were a lot more than 395 reviews for it a few months ago - have FD been up to something sneaky?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

LOL

At what point does a "Huge Minority" become a majority?

LOL and *facepalms* [wacko] LOL what on earth made me say that!!


Maybe the 2 hours sleep i had last night, ugh....

 

[GodBlock]

Well I for one enjoy Elite, I do not partake in any particularly "grindy" activities myself, which I blame on other people (seeing as the grinders do that)

I am FSD'ing my butt out of this thread and back to the game!

Enjoy the grind

o7

 

[K-Rose]

I just checked the Steam reviews for Horizons and ED - ED has over 16,000 reviews (mixed) but what happened to Horizons. There were a lot more than 395 reviews for it a few months ago - have FD been up to something sneaky?

Steam automatically does a sort of "rolling" thing with it's reviews, ensuring that games get fair representation of the latest build.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So ED should take a leaf out of your book and code something else then as so many people who are still here find many elements of the game boring. That's on ED, nobody else. Loads of people left the game because it was "boring" so the issue isn't with people that find it boring, it's with ED for making it boring.

You can't seriously tell me that trading is fun. Or, if YOU find it fun, surely you can recognise how simple and mind numbing it is?

Nope that is not what I said. I said if you find the grinding boring, do something else. Me I trade at times, I bounty hunt and I go CZ and I do exploring. I do a whole wide range of things that I enjoy and don't find them boring. I have yet to try mining but willing to give it a go. I enjoy flying my ship. That I can't get bored of, especially in VR.

What people find boring may not be grinding. That is purely subjective. I like trading at times as it is a nice change of pace to other activites so, yes to me I like it, just not all the time. But that is me. Others love it and that is all they do. Grind itself may not even be boring for that person. And if it isn't boring and they find it fun, then they have no reason to complain about it.

As stated, it's the people who come onto the forum and complain about grind when they pretty much subjected themselves to it that is the problem.

I also have just looked at the steam review. The last 600 odd reviews have been largely positive. So it looks like things are heading in the right direction. ;-)

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

If there is no grind, and grinding isn't necessary to enjoy the game, then let's get rid of the grindy aspects that people complain about. If you truly enjoy the game for what it is then it shouldn't change the way you play and everyone would be happy. Let it rain credits, get rid of rebuy costs, reduce rank requirements, reduce ship and module prices, etc...