Whether as part of an official statement or otherwise, it's honestly disappointing to hear a Frontier employee publicly using the veiled derisive language of anti-social players.
I can't rep you again. But +1 for saving me typing a similar post
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Whether as part of an official statement or otherwise, it's honestly disappointing to hear a Frontier employee publicly using the veiled derisive language of anti-social players.
I can't rep you again. But +1 for saving me typing a similar post
More like 4 years. People were already pointing the downsides of the networking architecture Frontier wanted to use back at the start of the game's Kickstart, in 2012, and DB even acknowledged in an interview back then that the interaction between PvPers and PvE players would be problematic.
Though, of course, DB is on record saying back then that ED was as much a MMO as Call of Duty.
BTW, I think the networking model perfectly fine, particularly because I find the PvP interactions that are hindered by said model to be worthless for me anyway. On the other hand, I find trying to fight against combat logging to be silly because both the networking model and the death penalty don't go well with forcing players to remain logged; the networking model means you don't have the required architecture to implement the one solution other MMOs use to fight against combat logging (the character staying in the game world for a while after the player pulls the plug), and the death penalty is too harsh to implement the usual solution peer-to-peer games use to fight combat logging (player death/defeat, which for those games typically means losing just a couple minutes of progression at most).
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*Says he is going to take an indefinite break then, 30mins later, loads up ED.*
...I'm such a sucker. Feeling a strange urge to play in Open though.
If anybody wants to blow up someone who doesn't combat log. I'll be playing in Open more often now, provided I am not doing something for the Canonn that I don't want to be interrupted and that I can afford insurance twice over. I want to see this "greifer" problem myself.
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He's allowed to have an opinion as much as the rest of you. Try not to be so sensitive about wording and focus on the point.
Try to keep in mind that they can't fix everything all at once and that, apart from a few particularly invested people, this is not even remotely a game breaking issue despite clear attempts to blow it all out of proportion (in my opinion).
Indeed - but in both cases there FD has the potential ability to detect such OS interactions and could potentially mark those as rule-breaking combat logging activities (Firewall rule x enabled / lost connection) etc. It'd be at a pinch though, and there are laws against snooping things like that.
Besides - it's just as trivial to do such stuff upstream and if FD snoop those - well that is most certainly illegal.
Quite the dilemma.
Yeah, this. Good job legitimizing the newbie killers, Brett.
Here's an idea I've not heard floated before- why not have a small "bubble" area around Eravate, perhaps 2-3 systems in each direction, where PvP is not allowed? This at least lets the new people get their feet wet without getting their [biowaste] kicked in the moment the
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I didn't suggest that he wasn't allowed to have an opinion. I merely provided feedback, as a single customer, on how the use of terms like "crying" and what was essentially a politely worded version of "git gud" influence my view of the company.
Without wanting to derail the conversation, I personally don't see it that way. Mostly because he's referring to someone that after having been shot legitimately has decided that they needed to come to the forum to vent. Rightly or wrongly that is guaranteed to open them to a torrent of derision and "maybe you shouldn't risk what you can't afford". I feel that 'crying' is a very gentle and not inaccurate admonishment of entitled behavior. And you're totally legit to have the opinion, it's an emotive subject no doubt.
I personally er on the side of creating a strict PVP group that has a counter for combat logging instances with associated warnings. i.e. if you drop out 3 times in the space of a week from combat or similar then you get booted from the PVP group for a period of time. If it's a networking issue then the onus is on them to get a better connection. The only limitation is if the game itself is having issues and you suddenly find that a whole bunch of players have been booted because of the ingame networking... suffice to say, FD don't have an enviable task on hand and I find this kind of witch hunting (this entire thread) to be counter productive...
Here is a stupid little example of where, and this happened just now, the game cheated me, and yet, I did not Combat Log.
"Why? It's just an NPC. The game cheated you." You might ask.
Because I have not, will not, and will never cheat. So don't ever accuse me of cheating, just because I disagree with your methods/the original post/everything you say.
"Why? It's just an NPC. The game cheated you." You might ask.
Because I have not, will not, and will never cheat. So don't ever accuse me of cheating, just because I disagree with your methods/the original post/everything you say.
If only FD could create a game mode that is totally focussed on PVP where everyone is actively encouraged to shoot the snot out of each other for hours at a time.
I wonder what it would look like?
Since there's mobius for people who really really don't like combat, maybe there should be a group for people who really really do. Open could be the middle ground where if someone doesn't want to fight, they don't have to.
Hilarious I suspect hehe - Surely all it would take is getting organised like Mobius and getting people into it???
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Sorry, folks. If Fdev want to finally address crime & punishment and come down heavily on the seal clubber's end of the teeter totter, I'm done. Might as well uninstall, once that happens, and I can't be back - data cap, and Elite would have to come far to make it worth it.
Grind++, and now not just 'blind eye to the griefing', but 'pro-griefing, cuz combat logging is worse than seal clubbing!' - real nice deal there.
Grind++, and now not just 'blind eye to the griefing', but 'pro-griefing, cuz combat logging is worse than seal clubbing!' - real nice deal there.
Nobody really cares.. FDevs dont care and it wont do a damn thing to about it.. get over it.
OR
They've got a million things on their plate, are working really hard to develop a game that thousands of people really enjoy playing and can't leap to immediately fix something that is far more complex to address than anyone gives it credit for. They're working on it but nobody seems to appreciate the fact that for one persons fix, it's so often another persons nerf. Throwing the proverbial toys out of the cot and slating FD doesn't do anyone any good...
Honesty costs nothing.
"Hey guys, we don't have the time to work on combat logging because we have X, Y and Z which are bigger priorities".
If you could expand on what these problems are without using mystical philosophy, maybe we could all come to a better understanding.
As far as I see it, FD is choosing not to take action because it's convenient for them to keep neglecting it. Some of these ideas that have been tossed may go one way or the other, but that is because some of the ideas are right while others are wrong. This is not a case of who's opinion trumps the others. This is a case of game mechanics that, as a sum total, has brought us the solo environment we play in today. Supporting gameplay that encourages people to accumulate power so that they can harass those without and who are not interested in combat have obvious consequences. While one gains their pleasure, dozens lose. This is one of the biggest review points that has cost this game membership and it needs balancing. There are tons of games out there that have corrected these issues and don't have this conflict as a result.
You both know this for sure? You've been to Frontiers offices and checked with them to make sure they're not doing anything about it? I'm frankly amazed how small player groups crash between one drama to another as if it's literally the end of the world and then blow it all out of proportion throwing out sweeping statements like 'it's hurting the game' and 'they're ignoring their player base'. They fix one thing and then the 'we've been nerfed' brigade come out with torches and pitchforks to vilify them till the next drama swings along.
Perhaps a little less alarm-ism and a little more reasoned and level headed discussion would lead to more developer interaction. Nothing like a bunch of people stomping their metaphorical feet and demanding attention to endear people to your cause right?
As for having more important things to do, they've already told you what they're working on and balancing is an ongoing priority. It's simply a matter of trying (with everyone from either side of the argument simultaneously throwing their toys at them) to walk that middle ground.
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Brett C
Frontier
Whether as part of an official statement or otherwise, it's honestly disappointing to hear a Frontier employee publicly using the veiled derisive language of anti-social players.
I can't rep you again. But +1 for saving me typing a similar post
As a reminder, what you quoted is of my personal opinion on the matter of PVP.
I assume you're referring to the Learn to play bit. It's more than "veiled derisive language of anti-social players". "Learn to play" is a legitimate issue that has begun to be a problem in this decades games being released. Elite Dangerous is especially prone to this issue, simply due to the vertical nature of its rather steep learning curve. I've seen more people post questions about how X does Y and how does Z interact with A B and C. Granted, these are looking from a top-down perspective. New commanders have to spend a fair lot of time before they're good to go with PVP.
If a player refuses to learn how the game functions, and learns the hard way by jumping right into the game without any, or in the least, minimal knowledge and is blown up by a random commander in open... honestly, what can the company do? It's clear that the player doesn't want to do tutorials or read up on the forums for some quick tips and tricks. We're not going to force them to do tutorials before being able to play.
Simply put: What you might find easy and generic, might be the most difficult thing the other person has to overcome for a day, a week, or even a month before getting into the swing of it.