An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging

Here's an idea (not sarcasm). Perhaps fd could simplify this and make it so the "Block" player function actually blocks players from being instanced with you. That way we can all enjoy Open and anyone who likes the likes of SDC can continue to play with them and those who don't don't. I find them to be rather vile, but generally I enjoy open. Give me that tool and I'll find myself far less tempted to log. Haven't done it yet, but the prospects of salting them a bit is very tempting and it won't be the threat of a shadow ban that thwarts me. You at fd find the prospects of making a functioning c&p policy too taxing, then fine. Allow us to block players we'd rather not mingle with and buy yourselves some time.
 
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Goose4291

Banned
I think we are missing a big part of the point here.

The issue of combat logging is secondary. Everyone knew it was an issue before Tuesday evening, everyone knew it was difficult to solve, and from a technical standpoint I haven't seen any suggestions here that I've never seen before.

What is really at stake here is that SDC have turned themselves into effectively a terrorist and lobbying organisation operating against the game of Elite Dangerous both within the game, and now outside it. They are using well worn political lobbying techniques in an attempt to influence the development agenda and priorities of Frontier, without really caring about the long term future of the game.

The techniques they are using bear more than a passing resemblance to organizations like UKIP in the UK.

I suspect strongly that this whole blow up was caused on purpose without much true objective other than to cause a big argument and get SDCs name in lights - they don't really care about the game or even whether they succeed or fail in getting combat logging solved - they are just here to cause trouble.

So, what we should really be asking ourselves is, are SDC right that Combat Logging and penalising combat loggers should be shifted to the top of FD's agenda for progressing the game? If not, then I sincerely hope that other than issuing the mandatory Customer Service statements to their customers, FD will do precisely nothing to change their priorities on their internal work.

I do think there is a place in this game for anarchist type activity - I partly agree with Brett's posts last night that having some players in the game who randomly attack other players, although people will complain about it, actually is a good thing for the game, and that if you play in open mode you should expect some level of risk. I also tend to agree that if you turn combat logging into a baiting type activity in itself, you are stooping to their level - better just to move into PG or Solo.

However this is not really what SDC are about - what they are about is trying to find exploits and then stage publicity stunts for their own self aggrandisement - even if you make a lot of fixes to crime, punishment, CL etc, SDC will simply look for more exploits in those changes and stage another "event" about it. They have now moved this activity outside the game where they are trying to create a big storm about an issue that was already well known in the past.

Even if you gave them the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to fix a problem, it's very lucky that the problem they are highlighting is one which, if cracked down upon much more heavily, would provide a big benefit to their play style. I await to see the results of SDCs detailed investigation into ticket handling and action taken against players indulging in in game harassment.

So my plea to FD is - ignore this thread and all this fuss and just carry on with the priorities that you had at 5pm on Tuesday night. Nothing said here really makes CL or crime and punishment more of a priority than it was 2 days ago. I would like better solutions to these items, but I would rather the dev priority be decided by FD than by minority lobbying activities.

The only thing I see in this that is right is that a lot of people are missing the point, turning it into the usual arguments.

As Oogie Boogie writes below your post, the issue is that Frontier claim they investigate fully all combat logging reports and in this case, it hasn't happened. Everything else; the Open/Solo debate, white knighting, why combat log and SDC bashing (which you seem very keen to take part in, going so far as to comparing them to a political group that is one step from breaking Godwin's law) is just misdirection by the other side who've adopted a 'forum war' mentality on anything that casts SDC in a positive light or Frontier in a negative one
 
I suspect strongly that this whole blow up was caused on purpose without much true objective other than to cause a big argument and get SDCs name in lights - they don't really care about the game or even whether they succeed or fail in getting combat logging solved - they are just here to cause trouble.

By all due respect, this is the classic mistake you are doing right now. By saying those arguments and objectives are disqualified because some member of a group are pushing this. But what you see in the open game is, is that combat logging is growing largely toward a standard procedure to "not lose the fight". Currently the exceptions are mainly players known in a clan, who would loose their reputation in the community, if a Youtube video would came up.
 
The only reason why you would combat log in Elite is because you are a sore loser. It's like flipping over the game board when you lose in monopoly.

. The only reason? Really? While I have no doubt some combat log because they don't like losing (and that applies to some PvPers by the way), I'd wager a large portion of combat logging results from the player's past experiences in this and other games, and not wanting to be cannon fodder for some jerk. Be careful assuming that you know the motivation behind every instance of combat logging - sometimes it's the actions of others before that set the victim's expectations of the experience and influences their subsequent actions.
 
Here's an idea (not sarcasm). Perhaps fd could simplify this and make it so the "Block" player function actually blocks players from being instanced with you. That way we can all enjoy Open and anyone who likes the likes of SDC can continue to play with them and those who don't don't. I find them to be rather vile, but generally I enjoy open. Give me that tool and I'll find myself far less tempted to log. Haven't done it yet, but the prospects of salting them a bit is very tempting and it won't be the threat of a shadow ban that thwarts me. You at fd find the prospects of making a functioning c&p policy too taxing, then fine. Allow us to block players we'd rather not mingle with and buy yourselves some time.

The trouble with this idea is that I would be sorely tempted to block the first person who had the gall to "pirate" me, regardless whether they were role playing a pirate or griefing. :)
 
The only thing I see in this that is right is that a lot of people are missing the point, turning it into the usual arguments.

As Oogie Boogie writes below your post, the issue is that Frontier claim they investigate fully all combat logging reports and in this case, it hasn't happened. Everything else; the Open/Solo debate, white knighting, why combat log and SDC bashing (which you seem very keen to take part in, going so far as to comparing them to a political group that is one step from breaking Godwin's law) is just misdirection by the other side who've adopted a 'forum war' mentality on anything that casts SDC in a positive light or Frontier in a negative one

No it is not a misdirection, it is focusing on the underlying issues.
 
The only reason why you would combat log in Elite is because you are a sore loser. It's like flipping over the game board when you lose in monopoly.

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I'd love to see a venn diagram of those who complain about grind and the gankers/PvP crowd

I think the only reason you need lots of credits is to cover lots of ship losses - I suspect most of the whining is from the same subset. The majority of the game is merely an impediment to getting on with griefing and they hammer those super-profitable routes to fund it.



This is the essence of the problem - there's a VAST VAST imbalance inbetween the value of the ship to PvE players and PvP players. As a mostly PvE player and someone who's been away from the game for a few months I know I'll be coming back with a barely engineered ship and a tonne of data to a bubble where there are people who have been spending months grinding their butts off to get top combat builds that could wipe me out in a second.

That's not fun. It forces me to creep back in under Solo, to then spend months and months building my ship up into an engineered beast until it will feel safe to return to Open which I've loved.

This game is meant to be fun though not an enforced grind right? Every poll has shown the overwhelming majority of players are PvE focused but to play in Open they must conform to an increasingly steep PvP requirement. With tens of thousands already gone to Mobius/groups/solo and apparently huge numbers combat logging to escape the PvP just how much feedback is required to say "Less PvP"

Combat was meant to be rare and significant, not constant and totally insignificant but we're regularly told That Is The Way To Play - grind get yourself 20 rebuys so you don't care and the loss of a ship isn't a bother. It's all good and fine saying we can go to the other modes but if so many are doing that then it's fair to guess there's also a significant number who don't know about the big groups and just drift off - it's all lost players, it's all upset players and by every poll it's a LOT of them.

Sure fix the combat logging - but the focus needs to be on what's causing the problem behind the explodey (or not) end results. When for one fraction their ship and credits mean so much and for another it means virtually nothing there will be no sense and no understanding between them

PvP combat is rare and significant.
I last got griefed January 2015. All my PvP after that has been consenting, blockade running a CG and opposing a player group on BGS. Oh I think shot someone on the other side in a CZ with my 2nd account, but later we winged up on the same side as became friends.

I am not saying come back in open is all great, I think your solo decision is wise as you have weighed up the risk/reward and come to a conclusion. I am saying, that there are areas where the chance of non-consenting PvP is higher, and most every day open play outside of those areas is griefer free. The higher risk places are obvious, high PC traffic, so rares (not such these days), engineer bases (I always become attentive if there is Gunship or FDL at an engineer's base), high paying mission places, and CGs. Places like Sag A have seen some problems, but these are few and far between.

Simon

Simon
 
The only reason why you would combat log in Elite is because you are a sore loser. It's like flipping over the game board when you lose in monopoly.

Over the weekend I witnessed some activity in Shinrarta Dezhra. For example, a group of individuals hanging around the main star, interdicting CMDRs as soon as they arrived, and attacking immediately.

Were they interested in the CMDRs cargo? No! Were they interested in any in game asset or in game benefit or score from destroying these CMDRs? No! They were interest in just one thing... Getting enjoyment out of causing grief to other players.

So as regards your analogy, I see the problem at times like a bunch of "individuals" hanging around outside a toy store, getting enjoyment out of simply tripping kids up as they pass buy...


Mindless destruction should be heavily penalised. It's generally toxic, and harms the game IMHO.
 
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if people don't like combat loggers then they should stop attacking players without warnings
I have never combat logged but can see the reason why its done and it seems to me that the only players that complain about it are the ones that cause all the grief
 
When I've tried piracy I witnessed very little combat logging.

I witness far more "griefing" with individuals simply interdicting anyone they can and blowing them for the lolz... Why are they not spending their time interdicting and destroying NPCs? Because interdicting and destroying a CMDR who is out gunned and out matched gives them what they are actually after... Enjoyment from the knowledge they are hopefully aggravating someone.

Which needs addressing first?


If FD penalise combat logging it will be giving these "individuals" exactly what they want.

Sort Crime and Punishment out first!
 
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