What? No. The underlying issue is that player feel the need to CL in the first place. They do this because griefing in Open is way too easy and not punished, and therefore way to widespread. It's a world of psychos. You have to expect that every Cmdr is one of them, so you CL. That doesnt make it right imo, but i understand the reasons.
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
What? No. The underlying issue is that player feel the need to CL in the first place. They do this because griefing in Open is way too easy and not punished, and therefore way to widespread. It's a world of psychos. You have to expect that every Cmdr is one of them, so you CL. That doesnt make it right imo, but i understand the reasons.
This lies entirely at the feet of FD though, the fact that they are able to do this in a system as advanced as Shinrarta Dezhra highlights how dysfunctional a really vital part of the game is. You couldn't stand outside a toy shop and trip kids up, you would be moved on or arrested ( I know this, I've tried
).
So we went there eh? SDC are litteral terrorists? Terrorists for exposing Frontiers ? I guess it's true what they say, one mands terrorist is another mans rebel.
A pilot in a Python, Anaconda or even bigger ship and who is not "harmless" should be able to handle an interdiction in Open. Even if the ship is equipped for trading... everybody with some basic shield (and not paper shields or even without shields) is capable to escape via high-jump in time.
Still missing the point that he was not commenting in his capacity as FD's Community Manager and he made that abundantly clear.
I can only speak for myself but I've never had a problem with having a personal opinion about something and yet when I'm at work (and being paid to essentially do what I'm told rather than what I may personally think is appropriate) being able to put that to one side and enact my employer's policies. I actually think it's a little disrespectful of Brett to suggest otherwise.
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I would slightly preferre if they fixed combat logging first but that's just plain old bias speaking. I want them both fixed as fast as possible. Preferrably worked into the same beta to see the effects of it and how the reworks effect eachother, even though fixing combat logging probably won't have much effect in a beta but still.
I've witnessed so much more combat logging than ganking so our personal experiences I guess aren't to much use.
The solution to this particular point is more, better tutorials. The new tutorials in the last couple patches are FANTASTIC, and we need more! Many more!
It's really unfortunate how many good games are plagued by a lack of proper tutorials explaining how things work (and not leaving many important, gameplay-intrinsic variables hidden from sight). I've been bingeing hardcore on Railroad Tycoon 2 (and sort of 3) over the last couple weeks, and I swear I've spent half my time just trying to dig through the cobwebbed nooks and crannies of the internet, or scouring every word of the manuals & strategy guide, finding information on how something works - and oftentimes I've had to give up.
Elite: Dangerous hasn't been quite that bad, but prior to those tutorial additions, it was up there. When it comes to displaying information and being accessible, the game's gotten much better since I started playing, but it has a lot of untapped potential in this department.
We need more tutorials, perhaps an introductory 'campaign', something to help ease new players into the massive experience that Elite can offer. So long as the tutorials are optional, anybody who enjoys diving into the deep end blind can do so unhindered, so everybody wins!
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IMHO:-
1) Crime and Punishment - Mindless destruction with the Pilots Federation should be a serious matter! An aggressive fine/outcome should really put people of doing it very often.
2) Piracy should be given some TLC - It should be about the extraction of cargo, NOT an excuse for destruction.
3) Actually introduce orchestrated PvP (& PvE) mechanics into the game. Powerplay, missions, CGs should all be offering interesting (legal) combat scenarios (both PvP and PvE).
4) Look into penalising combat logging.
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I don't know, the comparison seems wrong, as generally those attacking causing the combat logging to happen, as in interdicting randomly no interest in piracy or such, just to blow people up.
Those are the one's that aren't risking anything, picking targets that can't fight back and such.
If anyone is a loser I would say those that play a game without wanting risk, would be the ones, not those where all the risk is placed on. I've yet to see issues with combat logging when it actually was a fight, were both sides had risk, I've seen plenty of video's where 4 vs 1 complain a person combat logging, but again, 4 vs 1? 4 people attacking 1 person with intent to destroy them? who's the loser here? those who can't fight unless they are in a bigger number, if you ask me.
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I've always felt that the use of the word griefer is particuarly poor. Using wikipedia for ones references isn't all that great.
Come back when you've watched someone you love die in your arms, then we can have a discussion about 'grief'. Anyone who claims to have suffered grief or use it in relation to a computer game has clearly never suffered real misery or hardship in their entire lives.
Combat logging is cheating.. Shooting at other players is simply shooting at other players.
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When this seems so obvious to you, a PvP oriented player (forgive me if your tastes have changed
), and it's in consensus with the non-PvP-specialists, why isn't this how the game already works? The missing part would be creating the correct authority archetypes for the system properties, and having them simulate patrolling the shipping lanes and the primary star for arriving criminals and react on detection. Right now, authority vessels are basically oblivious to Wanted craft in supercruise, and do not prioritising scanning Wanted craft first in normal space.
Because gankers are operating completely within the allowed limits of the game, as set down by the developers, whether you like it or not. Combat Loggers are the ones defined by the developers as cheats, again whether you like it or not.
Good idea, ''fix'' piracy before combat logging.
There is absolutly no point in doing anything with PvP piracy before CL is fixed.
There's no issue really with 4vs1... If it's for piracy, great!
But when we see just mindless destruction, these individuals are only after the reward of knowing they've aggravated another CMDR. How is this toxic behavior of any benefit to the game when it's in truth not marshaled or policed in any significant way?
Goose4291
Banned
Your right in what your saying, the underpinning issue is that Combat Loggers feel they need to do this in the first instance. However, it's not because of Griefing. Most combat loggers would have logged regardless of griefing or not. I've seen people logging to (in no particular order):
(i) Avoid PvP with another player from a different powerplay faction when they're taking part in Powerplay (i.e. they're hauling the merits and get pulled out of SC)
(ii) Avoid legitimate piracy (the number of times you type out "I only want 5t" just to watch the other ship vanish)
(iii) When they've initiated combat and things didn't go their way
(iv) To avoid a cargo scan, either player or NPC enacted.
(v) 'For teh LOLZ'
Howevere, Griefing, Open vs. Solo, Crime and punishment aren't the issue being raised here, at least in my mind. (There's plenty of other threads ongoing about that now). It's the fact that Frontier say they investigate/punish combat loggers, and in this well documented from start to finish case, they clearly haven't, which confirms the suspicions that a lot of the Open community have had for some time.
And it's certainly not SDC bashing and terrorist analogies, like in the post I was initially responding too.
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You mean Elite Feet?
Griefing is also way less frequent than it's made out. Also, as has been said before, it's the known griefers that generally CL whenever they're taken on by better and smarter PVP pilots who, believe it or not, generally don't like the rather dumb but perfectly legitimate role that they play. We can't help n00bs as and when the situation arises, as the usual suspects will CL on us and continue to grief regardless.
Oh, and can we start excluding SDC from this 'grief' status too? Whilst they have a colourful past, it's really not their group mantra and they, like many other groups, tend to seek far more interesting and rewarding scenarios, whether to push a point or simply to have a challenge, of which there are fewer and fewer in this game due to it being stifled by dodgy mechanics.
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Good idea, ''fix'' piracy before combat logging.
There is absolutly no point in doing anything with PvP piracy before CL is fixed.
Yes... IMHO... The moment CMDRs know an interdiction is less likely to end in their mindless destruction, and hopefully other loose ends are improved, they'll be less likely to combat log.
Sort things out... then lock us in (sort out combat logging).
Worse thing we can do is lock the doors without sorting out the toxic gameplay first!
Anyway, I'm out of this thread. If FD give combat logging attention before crime and punishment, and actually introducing some meaningful interesting PvP mechanics, then... *sigh*
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