Except... no one is forcing group A to stay in open, if they don't like it there. Secondly, they get the added fun of interacting with other people (in a general sense) - isn't THAT what they are in Open for? This is how I understand the current mechanisms in play. If you want to interact with random people, feel free to do so in open, but don't expect the game to change. I.e. things will happen in the background, and there's nothing you can do about it. This goes beyond PP as well (quick example: trade, even without player intervention).
Logging During Combat Punishment [Proposal]
- Thread starter MONTItheRed
- Start date
Except... no one is forcing group A to stay in open, if they don't like it there. Secondly, they get the added fun of interacting with other people (in a general sense) - isn't THAT what they are in Open for? This is how I understand the current mechanisms in play. If you want to interact with random people, feel free to do so in open, but don't expect the game to change. I.e. things will happen in the background, and there's nothing you can do about it. This goes beyond PP as well (quick example: trade, even without player intervention).
It matters when you can't determine for absolute certain if a rule is broken or not, and any work to make any kind of determination at all is context-based and time-consuming.
It's far more productive to make combat logging a less frustrating experience.
Compare it to people trying to cross a freeway that has no prexisting crosswalks. You can arrest any person who jaywalks illegally, or you can build them an overpass. Which option is going to produce the best results?
Ship persistence (which will necessarily actually be entirely client-based behind-the-scenes cloning magic) and an official PvE mode would have much better, far-reaching, positive effects than tossing around a Permanent Banhammer based on information you yourself admitted isn't completely perfect. Educated guesses aren't good enough - that's why we have a judicial court system, prisons, and so on, instead of mass graves next to every local courthouse.
Nobody likes cheaters. Nobody likes getting blamed for cheating when they weren't cheating, either. Especially if it's not even something that requires an actual 'cheat', like a code or a piece of software - nay, a simple exploit, akin to getting outside a map on Halo or using a certain area to 'farm' experience and/or items in any generic RPG - or in Elite Dangerous' case, the infamous Ceos-Sothis runs, single-trade black-market BGS system flipping, etc.
It should be clear as daylight if you think about it for a minute.
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I can't tell if you're trolling or just not right in the head. No game company on earth would perma ban over something like C logging. It's not damaging to anyone's game outside of butt hurt, like you seem to have a plethora of.
I stand by what I said at the beginning of this thread; no one cares about C logging but greifers and gankers. Like Mr.error your attitude shows exactly where you fit.
Clearly you're more worried about killing other players than actually improving the game state.
Also, mobius is not an option for the thousands of console players, so give that tired argument a rest, and quit telling people to get out of open, you don't own it.
Got a problem? I'm sure my vette can help change your mind about repeated rebuys.
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Well said!
If only some of folks fixated on combat logging raised their gaze to look at the underlying causes and bigger far more important issues.
ps: I would suggest pirates (at least those trying to play within a modicum of fairplay rules) probably care about combat logging. But TBH, I suspect some of the logging they're encountering is down so the inane pointless destruction ED currently lovingly declares is its answer to PvP.
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Once in a cutter, pirates get laughed at. Since nothing can mass lock a cutter you just high wake out. End of story. Unless you decide to turn on them...
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oh yes, because we all have an imperial cutter ready to go. (note the dripping sarcasm)
I was referring to myself. I own the big 3, all decked out, yet here I am defending the little fish.
Don't poke the bear
Well, good for you. For the rest of us, shield tanking isn't always an option. do try to not fall off your high horse over there.
It's snarky guys like you that make me wonder why I bother, and semi-understand ganker motives.
No need to be edgy.
Here is their answer: *crickets chirping*
More likely the sounds of a busy office full of people with a whole lot of crap on their individual plates & no time to add to what already is still a very recent announcement, but take it for what you will I suppose....
HAH!!! I don't do PvP. It well never be fun for me. No amount of added game mechanics will change that. I am hardly the only person who plays this game in this way. I don't care about PvP, I don't want PvP, so...I don't deal with PvP at all.
I fully understand that, i play in solo myself as i do not really see elite offering anything worthwhile with multiplayer. maybe that will change i donno.
But i would rather they looked into making a better game then trying to find ways to punish the players.
If for instance a PK could earn useful rep or credits by going after bounty hunters(ai & players), maybe an assassins guild thingy?
And the bounty hunters had the same.
stuff like that, with tools/modules to make it easier finding the marks.
and some kinda better insurance offers for non-combat players.
I can't speak for him, but in my case, the first thing I ask when seeing any proposal is, "would it force me into PvP, or prevent me from obtaining something I might want due to my choice to never engage in PvP?"
If the answer to either question is yes, then that proposal is absolutely unacceptable for me. In this I don't compromise, because I won't play a game where I'm subject to non-consensual PvP, so any idea that might force me into PvP is something that would completely prevent me from playing.
(Or, if I were to play, you wouldn't like the results. Avoiding PvP is one of the few situations where I consider using exploits, and even cheats, to be acceptable. The reason is simple: I would rather be banned than be forced into PvP.)
There is no way, short of an all-encompassing PvP flag, to tweak a game mode in a way that is still enjoyable for me despite PvP being possible. If there is even a slim chance of someone being able to attack me without my consent, no matter if it's less than a chance in a million, then the game mode is simply not worth playing for me.
That being said, I'm all for making the game more enjoyable for PvPers as long as I never feel forced to engage in PvP, and never have any disadvantage due to refusing to take part in PvP.
BTW: No, I don't avoid combat. I just avoid PvP. Battling a stream of NPC pirates is perfectly fine for me, while being attacked by even a single player pirate is unacceptable.
I share your views, to a degree. If Fdev were to rework the C&P system to where the victim of unwanted PvP (i.e. running into a player killer, ganker, griefer, what have you) doesn't lose credits to a rebuy and doesn't lose bounty voucher/exploration data/cargo. Obvious exceptions being if that player were to be wanted, either in system or via a KWS, or if that player were in powerplay and not in friendly space. I might consider going back into open again for things other than fuel rat stuff. An Open PvE mode or a flag system would work just as well for me too. Until something of that nature happens, I'll stick to mobius and solo. Means I won't have to worry about resorting to combat logging because I simply won't be in a situation where it could be needed.
It's a matter of law and order. If people break rules, but are never held accountable for their actions, then what is to prevent them from doing it in the future? Actions that are undesirable could be prevented, deterred/reduced, or punished; but as Fdev have said, combat logging cannot be prevented due to the peer to peer architecture of the game. Therefore the available options are deterred/reduced or punished. One would hope that having something labelled as an exploit with the threat of banning would deter players, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems to be the case that combat logging is a crime without punishment (oh how those two terms coincide). If they intend to not punish combat logging, then it shouldn't be labeled as an exploit.
Unfortunately I don't have the ability to establish the raw numbers of combat logging events. Only Fdev can do that, so bringing up my ability to do that seems silly and distracting. As I said before, MANY times, I don't know how Fdev decides guilt; nor am I able to decide guilt; nor is the proposal about how guilt is determined.
As I mentioned before, Fdev mentioned that combat logging cannot be stopped. Flip it around and see how it works. If the activity doesn't stop, but isn't punished, what message does that send to the community? There is a vocal group of players that want pirates and murderers punished for their actions. Why a call to punish them? Especially when what they are doing isn't an exploit.
*My* experience hasn't been harmed by combat loggers, therefore *my* experience doesn't need fixing.