Newcomer / Intro Is there a choice?

[Ajantis Ilvastarr]

I like some parts of the game. Some i don't like.

1.I like to trade, to smuggle and do some missions.

2.I don't like to explore, and wonder aimlessly over planets with empty ecosystems with auto-generated rocks. I don't like pirating.

Is there a way to progress with the game and upgrade your ships with the first type of play?
Why is the game forcing us play what we don't like?
Why isn't there a monetary price on rare goods that you need for progress with engineering?

I feel like i am stuck and can't progress any more... so i stopped playing.

 

[xondk]

I like some parts of the game. Some i don't like.

1.I like to trade, to smuggle and do some missions.

2.I don't like to explore, and wonder aimlessly over planets with empty ecosystems with auto-generated rocks. I don't like pirating.

Is there a way to progress with the game and upgrade your ships with the first type of play?
Why is the game forcing us play what we don't like?
Why isn't there a monetary price on rare goods that you need for progress with engineering?

I feel like i am stuck and can't progress any more... so i stopped playing.

Plenty of choices, you can play it how you like, trade smuggle and do missions, don't chose to explore?

Here's the thing though, Playing what you like is, your choice, your choice is not without consequences, if you chose not to do something, then that is your choice, you are excluding yourself from something.
Playing the game as you want, does not mean the game gives you everything when you do what you want.

It means only.
Here is our game, do whatever you can do in the game.

Limits restrictions and whatnot, are part of games.

 

[Ajantis Ilvastarr]

I understand that developers want us to try all the parts of the game, but this is too much.
With engineers they are saying: if you don't want to play like we want, you cant progress in the game?
It is like a wall.
I can't see a way to play like this.
There are placeholder parts of the game, and boring to play. Parts of the game that are not finished, and they are forcing us to play those parts. Why?

 

[Chris Simon]

I understand that developers want us to try all the parts of the game, but this is too much.
With engineers they are saying: if you don't want to play like we want, you cant progress in the game?
It is like a wall.
I can't see a way to play like this.
There are placeholder parts of the game, and boring to play. Parts of the game that are not finished, and they are forcing us to play those parts. Why?

It's perfectly possible to progress (aka earn money for bigger ships) with just trading, smuggling or doing missions. You don't have to touch things you don't like at all. Engineers, combat altogether, exploration... Everything's optional. There are no walls.

 

[Ajantis Ilvastarr]

But engineers are a wall. You cant progress and use that whole expansion if you don't explore?
Why did i buy it then? Why punish one type of player?

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

I tried PowerPlay (actually, in the Beta test, not in live) - it didn't grab me, so I didn't try again. I didn't like being wanted in 9/10th of known space.

I tried Engineers and upgraded something on my ship. It seemed a lot of effort for not much return, and my weapons of choice (Gimballed Pulse Lasers) got stronger, but would last less time before needing recharging, so I deleted the mod, and didn't try Engineers again.

Way back in the early days of ED I couldn't fight, and struggled with trying to win interdictions. When eventually I went back to fighting I'd got better at it, and now enjoy it. Interdictions only improved when I got a much better/faster/modern laptop.

I've been on two longish exploration runs (well, long for me in terms of time because I want to scan every last rock in each system and might do so again.

Mining bores me to tears. I just don't get it. Nor do I get planetary "shoot the rock" stuff, to get a ton of iron, when the standard cargo pods I scoop will contain as much metal - and for free (lack of gameplay jars with me too).

But...but...but I still get a huge amount from the game, played my way. Mostly I'm into flipping minor factions and systems. It's time consuming, sometimes is a puzzle which lever to pull. I also trade, and have some nice routes worked out, using my own data I've gathered. I like missions, but as a way to boost my influence, rep, and to help with system-flipping. I like combat. I still mostly fly the Cobra MkIII, although have a small fleet of ships now. I've never gone bigger than a Vulture (didn't like, too slow/clunky) and a T7 (did like, as too slow/clunky!). I'm not sure I'll ever get to an Anaconda, but hey, that's fine too.

So play it your way. Trade, run missions, smuggle. Enjoy.

JC

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Could you be a bit more specific? Is it the unlock requirements you have issues with or the materials/data gathering?

With the right ships engineers are relatively quick and easy.

The unlock requirements are once only things, even the most annoying for you personally (I'd imagine probably the 5000ly from sol for Palin) is fairly easy if you have a 55ly Anaconda courtesy of Felicity Farseer. ~200 jumps and you are out and back with a good bit of exploration data to give to a faction.

Personally I min-maxed the engineers. Used Inara to work out the easiest upgrades for each one with commodities I could buy at a starport. It's 3 upgrades per level so fairly easy to get a quick summary together of exactly how much you need for all engineers.
I gathered the materials in a Python with all the bells and whistles (SRV, wake scanner etc), took 2 weekends and evenings in a working week to cross them all off the list but then it was just back into the Anaconda and cross them off one after another.
The only issues I had were sirius system permit, 25 modular terminals for Qwent, the painite mining unlock and the rather irritating rare goods trading to unlock the other engineers. It's best to wait on these and monitor the rare goods system. When in boom you can pick up more of the rares at a time so it may only take 3 trips instead of 5.
Either way that took a further ~3 days or so to overcome but at the end I did it once. Under 2 weeks for all engineers at rank 5 I can live with.

Personally I get why FDev did it, there's been a few stories about engineers driving players into things they'd never done before (mining/srv stuff) and they enjoyed it so much they cancelled their current plans and were then looking on the best mining ship loadouts/hotspots etc. Some good does come out of it.

If you are on about materials/data gathering then yeah certain aspects will annoy you especially if you like to re-mod items or keep re-rolling for the best available.


Anyway. As above, you can get any ship including ranks etc without exploring/mining etc as missions are the rank unlockers and the only other requirement is cash. Some ways are faster than others obviously but all ways get you there eventually provided you remain profitable.

 

[Ajantis Ilvastarr]

I thank you all for you reply's, but i don't think you understand.
I don't want to do empty exploration. Alone in space scanning some stars and rocks. Finding nothing interesting. I don't want to stand in front of a star-port scanning 100 ships and getting nothing.
I don't want to loose 3 days of my life looking for rocks on a planet i found on a forum.
Half of things in this game are half-finished and its OK, but why force players to play this broken gameplay if they don't want it?
I want to play in my game style, and upgrade my ships. Use the expansion that i bought. Is it to much to ask?
Make a big price for an upgrade, but don't make me stop playing with this nonsense of forced exploration please...

 

[Chris Simon]

I thank you all for you reply's, but i don't think you understand.
I don't want to do empty exploration. Alone in space scanning some stars and rocks. Finding nothing interesting. I don't want to stand in front of a star-port scanning 100 ships and getting nothing.
I don't want to loose 3 days of my life looking for rocks on a planet i found on a forum.
Half of things in this game are half-finished and its OK, but why force players to play this broken gameplay if they don't want it?
I want to play in my game style, and upgrade my ships. Use the expansion that i bought. Is it to much to ask?
Make a big price for an upgrade, but don't make me stop playing with this nonsense of forced exploration please...

Yes, I think we really don't understand.
You bought an expansion that lets you drive on planets, scanning and shooting stuff and for that stuff, enhance your ship. Yet you don't enjoy doing it. Fair enough.

Half of the things are half-finished, because the game is mid development. You knew that when you bought it.

Stop playing what you clearly don't enjoy and wait for it to be finished, then. I don't know what else to tell you...

 

[Ajantis Ilvastarr]

I already stopped. I cant upgrade, because of this forced exploration. I hit a wall, and its no fun.
To bad, i was starting to enjoy this game...
I just could not believe it at first, but i can see now that Devs are insisting you MUST play like they want it, and no other way. No alternatives.
I bought a Deluxe Edition, but now i cant play. I feel cheated.

 

[riceak]

Why must your explore to get where you want to get to?

 

[Mitch Brewer]

You are going to have to explain your situation if you want help. You say you can't play because you are forced to explore. What does that mean? I'm not exploring at the moment but I play everyday. I'm ranking up in Fed and Emp ranks and gaining money and doing the Tutumu CG. You don't need engineers to trade and do missions. I've only engineered my ASPX and still haven't used it, I use unengineered ships for missions and trading.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Feel free to ignore any engineering stuff you can't be bothered getting into. You don't need to "engineer" anything to trade, smuggle and do some missions.

 

[Winterwalker]

I think you make an interesting point.

Firstly though, be aware that engineers only really give a 'marginal' improvement on the weapons / modules you have. You're better, really, earning money to upgrade your ship through standard upgrades, in regular shipyards first. If you want to grab an extra five percent you can then go to an engineer.

At the moment you need both engineering commodities, and materials to engineer ships beyond level one. That looks likely to change, with the removal of the commodites (that's in beta right now) but you will still need the materials. Suggest checking out http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineers will give you some clues for CURRENT blueprints but as I say, these are a little bit up in the air at the minute)

I suggest building up a stock of materials. Missions do give them so, while you're earning money for modules, see if you can pick up some random materials at the same time. The first time you visit an engineer then, you might have to take what you can get (and take what you can get is definitely the nature of missions) but you can look at specific blueprints later as it's a bit more advanced to actively work on getting a specific blueprint ready.

One way you could look at it is you're not really 'exploring' if you do go down to a surface in SRV looking for materials .. you're "looking for materials" (scavenging)? It's a bit of a different mindset is what I'm saying but if you're main focus is going to be on money you can pick up good salvage on planet. Cannisters of platinum, gold, narcotics, weapons, are smuggler's gold dust. Then if you 'happen to see a rock while looking for cannisters' .. bust it open, grab materials and carry on.

You can get materials mining too, though that takes a specialist ship loadout so it depends how much cash you have, what ship you're in etc. because mining's not great fun without collector limpets (if you like trading though, you might enjoy it, with them). I'm a miner and have materials coming out of my ears as a total byproduct.

Treat materials like that though, a byproduct, grab them if you see them, build up a stock and then you have more choices in engineering. Credits are key though. Why engineer an E grade module if you expect to work towards an A grade, when you'll lose the engineer's modifier (unless you store the module but by then really it's obsolete).

 

[through the hole backwards]

I tried eating prunes once, didn't like it . That day I made a decision that changed my life and I have never eaten prunes since. I am happy .

 

[Underhook]

I think the OP makes a good point. There are many times in this game where the game requires you to perform tasks that are boring or opposite to your roleplaying style. Such as killing type 9's or shooting rocks. Many people who stick with the game dont like it but just treat it as a waste of time that simply has to be done to progress. Yes its stupid that we need to do these silly boring tasks. Its just a matter of wether you think the rest of the game is worth the horrible unfinished grindy bits.

- - - Updated - - -

I tried eating prunes once, didn't like it . That day I made a decision that changed my life and I have never eaten prunes since. I am happy .

Guess what. Today FD says the only food we have for you this week is prunes. Enjoy

 

[Winterwalker]

Guess what. Today FD says the only food we have for you this week is prunes. Enjoy

Yeah, I'm not sure the analogy is 100% ideal given the OP is asking if he has no choice .. and there's no suggestion he could have a grapefruit or oranges instead ..

In my post above you'll see three methods for gaining natural materials and, depending on the material, manufactured ones are also found in battle aftermaths as well as POI's and degraded emiission USS.

There is a choice in the way you find each type of natural/manufactured material but, where prunes is right, there's a choice not to go to an engineer at all, so you don't need materials in the first place. If you want engineer mods though (and again I'm not sure if that's the ideal focus until you have an A rated ship) you do have to eat breakfast .. but oranges and grapefruit do give a prune substitute. Cornflakes and bacon are probably (updates) 2.3, 2.4, 3.0, 3.1 .. followed by cheese, port and cigars eventually and with a fair wind.

 

[Shar]

I have to kill that dragon to advance to the next level, but i dont want to kill a dragon so I'm stuck oh help what can i do blah blah blah rediculas.........there is no answer to your question just stop playing you have gone as far as your prepered to go that is it.

Know one can win elite but you managed to find a way to lose congradulations.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I thank you all for you reply's, but i don't think you understand.
I don't want to do empty exploration. Alone in space scanning some stars and rocks. Finding nothing interesting. I don't want to stand in front of a star-port scanning 100 ships and getting nothing.
I don't want to loose 3 days of my life looking for rocks on a planet i found on a forum.
Half of things in this game are half-finished and its OK, but why force players to play this broken gameplay if they don't want it?
I want to play in my game style, and upgrade my ships. Use the expansion that i bought. Is it to much to ask?
Make a big price for an upgrade, but don't make me stop playing with this nonsense of forced exploration please...

-I would agree exploration itself is unfinished but you don't need to explore for engineers. There's literally 2 unlock requirements all related to distance travelled not amount explored.
-Scanning ships I picked most of it up in combat zones or supercruise doing other things, really wasn't difficult at all, never had to specifically stop and scan ships, got all that passively.
-Collecting in the SRV is (arguably) the biggest part of engineering. If you don't want to do that then you can't engineer. It's like saying I want an expensive ship without having to work to get the money for it, the two things are intrinsically linked.

Ahhh, I get it now, you want to pay credits for upgrades. Yeah, that isn't going to happen because the other players messed it up. I don't know 100% but I believe it went a little something like this:
Players: Too much grind in game!
Developers: What are you doing?
Players: The most profitable activity to get billions as fast as possible.
Developers: Don't you do anything else?
Players: No!
Developers: Ok, if you want to get these upgrades with engineers you need items from all different parts of the game so you arn't doing 1 activity for months and you now have to experience all of the game.
Players: Too much grind in game!

They really can't win but you can understand why they've done it.

I already stopped. I cant upgrade, because of this forced exploration. I hit a wall, and its no fun.
To bad, i was starting to enjoy this game...
I just could not believe it at first, but i can see now that Devs are insisting you MUST play like they want it, and no other way. No alternatives.
I bought a Deluxe Edition, but now i cant play. I feel cheated.

Do something else, ignore engineers, pretend it doesn't exist. If this is enough to make you quit the game or make you feel cheated then I feel bad for you and there's nothing any of us can do to help as the game is that way.
It's like in Skyrim, you can't get ebony armour without increasing your smithing skill. You can't do the dragonshouts without reading the word walls. etc etc. All games have things money cannot buy, in Elite it's naval ranks and engineers.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

I already stopped. I cant upgrade, because of this forced exploration.

I'm still not getting it. What can't be 'upgraded'? Have you bought a full fleet of ships, and bought the best possible outffiting for each of them? Sure... you can top that up further by Engineering some of the items, but on my admittedly limited experience of doing it twice, it wasn't a big boost, and set me back in some ways, so now I ignore it. I still randomly acquire Materials and Data simply from doing missions and scanning ships, as I go about my regular business. Not sure what I'll do with it and had to delete some recently as I hit 500 items in storage. I seem to have enough to manufacture an FSD boost and some small armaments in my ship, which might be interesting to try some day.