A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Jmanis]

Let's just say that I can't recall ever seeing a communist industrial that doesn't have them on the market then - the legality aspect is what matters. Are the local high-techs dicatorships or communist?

Microbial furnaces are not produced by mixed high-tech/refinery economies, in my experience. I've never noticed a pattern with HE suits.

This is why I used Microbial Furnaces and HE suits as the example; both are only "meant" to be available from pure HT systems, at least, according to this god-awfully-out-of-date thing.

But to contradict your statement about Microbial Furnaces and HT/Ref, from that system 19LY away...

Let's just say that I can't recall ever seeing a communist industrial that doesn't have them on the market then

That's correct enough... I went to the nearby Industrial system owned by a Dictatorship and they had Battle Weapons in stock. But one of the HT systems (not Cramer Gateway) I was referring to before was owned by the same Dictatorship faction that owns the industrial system, and they have demand, not supply for battle weapons. However, they've had supply previously, as I've bought from that HT/Ref system before.

As mentioned as well, Performance Enhancers are *meant* to be supplied by pure HT too, but there's HT/Ref nearby that stock them too.

BTW, I'm not trying to be intentionally contrary. I'm just telling (and showing) what I can observe around here. The "rules" you mention I've applied all round the place, but in this particular 40-odd LY bubble they've never held. And that's interesting.

tl;dr I don't think the economy behaves as simply as we think. In general it does, but there's gotta be some exceptions there that we don't know about.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I don't think the economy behaves as simply as we think. In general it does, but there's gotta be some exceptions there that we don't know about.

Would any of these have anything to do with the wealth or health of a system?

 

[Jmanis]

Would any of these have anything to do with the wealth or health of a system?

Not really, at least, as far as I'm concerned. Having been chugging around this area for two years now, I know it like the back of my hand. The markets being like this (in this region) has *always* been the case over those two years.

The installation of a dictatorship here and there is "new" for sure, however, due to the legalities the100thmonkey mentions, this has to date only served to increase the availability of goods such as Battle Weapons, Combat Stabilisers, Narcotics. However, that dictatorship has never suffered a Famine or Outbreak, ever.

The most wild changes with various goods going on/off the markets came with 2.1, but the availability of things like HE Suits compared to Microbial Furnaces (which should be the same) has never changed.

EDIT: It's probably worth mentioning... nothing stopping me going to an Industrial system for Battle Weapons, but at the time I needed other goods only from HT systems, and assumed based on the market descriptions I'd find Battle Weapons at them.

 

[goemon]

tl;dr I don't think the economy behaves as simply as we think. In general it does, but there's gotta be some exceptions there that we don't know about.

i assume there are very easy rules producing results lokking not that simple ;-)

just some assumptions: we do know, that for exampel a famine takes off all food from the market... now, i was for a long time wondering about (non-)availability of performance enhancers - could it be an effect of other economies in a system?

or - that would be hidden - economies on planets we don't know about yet?

 

[Ishi-Limina]

I'm not certain about this, but i think availabilty of commodities is affected by the states of all the factions in a system, not just the faction which owns a particular station.

I only noticed this recently, though, and i haven't compiled evidence so might well be wrong.

 

[Walter2]

There's nothing wrong with asking for evidence. It's fine if you can't provide it, nobody takes daily screenshots or takes notes of all the factions and systems. It's easy to miss stuff in a game as big as Elite, but then again you shouldn't expect people to believe everything you say in a forum thread.

Under normal circumstances a screenshot is corroborative evidence. In this instance, no amount of screenshots, spreadsheets or other devices can add a jot of information to the story and there is no virtue in cluttering an already wordy description with irrelevancies.

The information I offered was collected by myself and an independent co-observer. There is no more. (Having recently posted here some conclusions based on insufficient research, I know where I stand.) Using normal evaluation protocols, the evidence presented by a witness is taken to be truth until proved to be false or incomplete, or the witness is shown to be misleading the reader.

Whether using logical thought processes or not, everyone is entitled to form their own opinion. I just rather resent being labelled a gossip.

 

[Murrdox]

I have a simple question about War.

I had thought that a minor faction went into War or Civil War over resources, namely control over stations. This past week I noticed that the faction I support was at War in a system. I went out to that system to spec it out. They were at War with another faction... and that faction had no control over anything. Neither did the faction that I supported. It was a very small system with only 2 stations and 3 planetary bases. I was able to help my faction and the war ended a couple days later with my faction as victorious... however I don't see that there were any consequences?

Is it possible that if my faction had lost the war that my faction would be forced out of the system? Or are pointless wars something that happens frequently in the game? Are there any positive or negative effects for a War which is fought that doesn't result in either faction gaining control of a station?

 

[_trent_]

I have a simple question about War.

I had thought that a minor faction went into War or Civil War over resources, namely control over stations. This past week I noticed that the faction I support was at War in a system. I went out to that system to spec it out. They were at War with another faction... and that faction had no control over anything. Neither did the faction that I supported. It was a very small system with only 2 stations and 3 planetary bases. I was able to help my faction and the war ended a couple days later with my faction as victorious... however I don't see that there were any consequences?

Is it possible that if my faction had lost the war that my faction would be forced out of the system? Or are pointless wars something that happens frequently in the game? Are there any positive or negative effects for a War which is fought that doesn't result in either faction gaining control of a station?

A conflict state will always arise between two minor factions in a system when they equalize*. The only time this doesn't happen is when one or both of them is already pending or in a conflict state (in the same system or any other system.)

You won't get kicked out if you lose, the only way to get kicked out of a system is through the retreat mechanic.

Edit: *If they equalize at an influence level above 7%.

 

[the100thmonkey]

But to contradict your statement about Microbial Furnaces and HT/Ref, from that system 19LY away...
https://i.imgur.com/Og1Lvcu.png
https://i.imgur.com/5lqGfdz.png

Heh - I came back to this page to post that I had contradicted myself - I found exactly the same thing at a nearby high-tech/refinery system when I was out buying and equipping a ship earlier. I will swear blind that it's never had those commodities before, and I've been playing in the environs for nearly two years.

tl;dr I don't think the economy behaves as simply as we think. In general it does, but there's gotta be some exceptions there that we don't know about.

I agree. I do think something's changed though, rather than it having always been that way.

 

[goemon]

I'm not certain about this, but i think availabilty of commodities is affected by the states of all the factions in a system, not just the faction which owns a particular station.

I only noticed this recently, though, and i haven't compiled evidence so might well be wrong.

you are definetly right.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hm, need some Opinions to confirm something :

I recently had to support other Factions in two different Systems just to move their Influence/Match up etc.

Yesterday I went into one of these and handed in a mere 526k Bounty Voucher for a local Dictatorship (Outbreak, entire System hasn't seen Player support in like several months, Influence rock-steady).
500k Population, nothing special.
I was only looking to fill up a 0.8% Influence Delta - but got a whopping 3.4% overshoot instead.

In the other System I worked some weeks ago (also pretty much deserted, without Player support), I witnessed similar results.
A fairly small (single) Input resulted in a very surprisingly high move, far higher than anticipated and exceeding all my known/old benchmarks.
Once we started really pushing it, we basically saw limit-up moves despite getting only lowlife Missions - expecting this to take longer due to being unable to make any higher value Inputs.

Player Traffic was me alone, yesterday's System I specifically confirmed because I couldn't make any sense out of it.

Thus my question :
- is there an overall "Player Inputs over time" bucket that goes empty for entirely unsupported Systems? Like one that acts as a big multiplicator once a Player does drop off something there?

To me, it felt like these guys went "*yay* Finally! A Commander! 526k Credits.... We're rich! RICH! *Party ON*"

I remember times where my benchmark Inputs would allow me to fill even a 8-9% Delta to a perfect Influence match the next day.
With oddball results those like I'm seeing now, not so much
(it's like running into a long-term unsupported System/Faction requires inputs to be 1/4th -1/5th of what I'd need to move the same with my own, well-supported Faction, even if we're talking same Population/# of Inputs)

 

[CMDR Endincite]

Hm, need some Opinions to confirm something :

I recently had to support other Factions in two different Systems just to move their Influence/Match up etc.

Yesterday I went into one of these and handed in a mere 526k Bounty Voucher for a local Dictatorship (Outbreak, entire System hasn't seen Player support in like several months, Influence rock-steady).
500k Population, nothing special.
I was only looking to fill up a 0.8% Influence Delta - but got a whopping 3.4% overshoot instead.

In the other System I worked some weeks ago (also pretty much deserted, without Player support), I witnessed similar results.
A fairly small (single) Input resulted in a very surprisingly high move, far higher than anticipated and exceeding all my known/old benchmarks.
Once we started really pushing it, we basically saw limit-up moves despite getting only lowlife Missions - expecting this to take longer due to being unable to make any higher value Inputs.

Player Traffic was me alone, yesterday's System I specifically confirmed because I couldn't make any sense out of it.

Thus my question :
- is there an overall "Player Inputs over time" bucket that goes empty for entirely unsupported Systems? Like one that acts as a big multiplicator once a Player does drop off something there?

To me, it felt like these guys went "*yay* Finally! A Commander! 526k Credits.... We're rich! RICH! *Party ON*"

I remember times where my benchmark Inputs would allow me to fill even a 8-9% Delta to a perfect Influence match the next day.
With oddball results those like I'm seeing now, not so much
(it's like running into a long-term unsupported System/Faction requires inputs to be 1/4th -1/5th of what I'd need to move the same with my own, well-supported Faction, even if we're talking same Population/# of Inputs)

My first guess would be extreme differences between your normal area of ops vs. these others (population, system traffic you were used to operating in). Having moved from high-traffic, high-population systems to my 'retirement' backwater of mostly very low pop, little or no traffic systems, the results of small actions can be surprising. I don't have enough data in your post to really even guess further.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

In terms of Population and traffic, it's all benchmarked, so this shouldn't be any source of surprise.

Most is low Population, zero Traffic space anyway, so I know all numbers for these cases by heart.

 

[FrogsFriend]

....

Thus my question :
- is there an overall "Player Inputs over time" bucket that goes empty for entirely unsupported Systems? Like one that acts as a big multiplicator once a Player does drop off something there?
.....

That does sound consistent with my own experience of this, although I've no hard figures to back that up.
It would make sense to me for the total player activity (assuming the effects of single actions are proportional to the total player activity) to be averaged over a time frame, rather than just totalled within a single tick. To smooth it out and avoid sudden changes in the scale of effect from day to day.

 

[Saool]

Sages of the sim, I have seen and read a few threads about 'Ceasefires' before, but for the first time have one in a war in which I am invested. I understand they occur when there is a Civil-War state crossed with a Retreat state for one of the fractions. That is indeed the case here.

However the Retreat in question occurred on the same day the war began. It is now therefore done but the war, now in it's third day, is still at Ceasefire.

Is this war a dud? Is it possible to get it active again? How long might it last if no-one is fighting. Can I still influence the outcome by engaging the ships of fraction I wish to lose? (or taking the crazy act of engaging in the war zones anyway).

Thank you in advance.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

Two quick questions, hopefully with quick answers.

1. Boom state. Any way to end it? Does it differ if the Minor Faction is in multiple Systems at varying Inf levels from 70% to 6%, but all showing Boom?

2. Normal Commodity Teading. Is is the act of buying goods or selling goods or doing both that helps move Inf levels? Never been totally clear on this one, so I usually try to do both, i.e. sell something and then buy something else.

TIA
JC

 

[goemon]

Two quick questions, hopefully with quick answers.

1. Boom state. Any way to end it? Does it differ if the Minor Faction is in multiple Systems at varying Inf levels from 70% to 6%, but all showing Boom?

2. Normal Commodity Teading. Is is the act of buying goods or selling goods or doing both that helps move Inf levels? Never been totally clear on this one, so I usually try to do both, i.e. sell something and then buy something else.

TIA
JC

1. boom state is a faction wide state, so it will show boom and have its effects in all system. quickest way to end a boom is by getting the faction into a conflict (war/civil war/election) or expansion/investment/retreat - those states will break boom. alternatively you can trade out the boom bucket, assumption is by selling at the factions markets.

2. generally speaking selling with profit raises infuence. but buying creates more "actions" in the system additionally to that, so you might be able to move the influence further by doing both.

 

[Sentenza]

Sages of the sim, I have seen and read a few threads about 'Ceasefires' before, but for the first time have one in a war in which I am invested. I understand they occur when there is a Civil-War state crossed with a Retreat state for one of the fractions. That is indeed the case here.

However the Retreat in question occurred on the same day the war began. It is now therefore done but the war, now in it's third day, is still at Ceasefire.

Is this war a dud? Is it possible to get it active again? How long might it last if no-one is fighting. Can I still influence the outcome by engaging the ships of fraction I wish to lose? (or taking the crazy act of engaging in the war zones anyway).

Thank you in advance.

In my case I just had a war ending with another war immediately pending. CZs remained for two more days in ceafire state.

If you kill faction ships (even in the CZ) is a normal murder and thus will influence as usual (and you become wanted).

 

[irongut]

1. Boom state. Any way to end it? Does it differ if the Minor Faction is in multiple Systems at varying Inf levels from 70% to 6%, but all showing Boom?

You don't really need to end Boom, almost any other state will interrupt it, and why would you? It raises some of the hidden quality of life variables for the system and improves trade, missions and outfitting while it lasts.

In earlier BGS versions ending Boom was a good thing because it blocked Expansion but no longer.

 

[SaliVader]

Hi guys, came here to give some data about the investment state:

-Lasts for 5 days
-Cooldown (time it shows as recovering): 1 day

After the day of cooldown, an expansion went pending. However, it is not from the same system the investment was active in (we've had some sudden spikes of influence lately and we have a few systems over 75% today). So this means I was wrong, and an investment doesn't force an expansion from the same system. Now I need someone to test what happens if there's no system above 75% when the investment ends.