No griefing? Your credibility is now zero. Right on, CMDR.
PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...
- Thread starter Globusdiablo
- Start date
- Status
No griefing? Your credibility is now zero. Right on, CMDR.
Like many of these misunderstandings, it depends on the definition you use for the contentious words.
A technical definition of 'griefing' would be persistent harrasment, preventing another player from escaping or achieving a goal.
Since any player can switch to solo (or a private group if they are a member of one) it is impossible to persistently prevent another player from going about their business.
However, it can be made very difficult, and a stretched definition might include preventing a player from going about their business in Open.
Cosmos is correct, there is no griefing by the strict definition.
ETA: I prefer the term 'ganking', which is simply another word for overkill, ie applying overwhelming effort to achieve a goal. Sometimes this just comes down to a disparity in experience or skill (or how well calibrated their mouse is).
Last edited:
Surely I'm not the only one laughing at the idea that the same crowd whose mantra is:
"If you go into open, you accept that unconsentual PvP is a thing!"
... is also saying:
"The forums are too inhospitable! There's too much unconsentual disagreement! Avoid!"
As a PvE guy, all I have to say is:
These are the (open) forums. Unconsentual rebuttal is a thing here. Git gud at verbal sparring against other players.
How's that shoe fitting now that it's on the other foot?
"If you go into open, you accept that unconsentual PvP is a thing!"
... is also saying:
"The forums are too inhospitable! There's too much unconsentual disagreement! Avoid!"
As a PvE guy, all I have to say is:
These are the (open) forums. Unconsentual rebuttal is a thing here. Git gud at verbal sparring against other players.
How's that shoe fitting now that it's on the other foot?
Last edited:
I think he means that by some people's definition, any time they "lose" a hostile encounter, it is considered "griefing".
And furthermore that PVP is so rare in this game, that it is too small and isolated and 100% avoidable, to become a problem.
In fact, PVP is so hard to come by that people have to create hosted events just to get access to this kind of gameplay. <Ahem>
Last edited:
It is, I agree. I base my gameplay around being paranoid about the hypothetical ganker, my main issue with the 2.1 AI change is that unlike the players they try to emulate, the NPCs could not be so easily avoided.
Last edited:
And there you have it folks: what the PvP demographic considers the overriding sentiment of this forum.
LOL! ^ this. exactly this. I would rep, but forums won't let me.
Thank you! I kinda said as much, but this is just so much more direct and blunt. I LOVE IT!
An other definition would be: "… malicious griefing (which we loosely define as actions whose only purpose, outcome and gain is to punish and frustrate other players)."
I know it's a very, very old quote. But the closest to a definition of "griefing" I could find from anybody higher up at FD.
Notice that there is no requirement for persistence or repeated actions.
It could be argued that a lot of things that get labeled as legit gameplay and something that doesn't need justification is in the eyes of FD "malicious griefing".
From experience I'd guess it's around the 80:20 mark goodie vs baddie. 20% fits the description 'substantial portion'. Personally I'd say 'a minority'.
I have several friends in-game who to other people are probably hated, much as with yourself jasonbarron
- - - Updated - - -
I suppose that's the crux, isn't it
Definitions differ & create tension.And players like <snipped to comply with forum rules> are what the PvE demographic consideres the overriding sentiment of open mode.
The list is extensive, I just will not include it on a forum post because of forum rules and because the point of this post isn't to name and shame.
From experience I'd guess it's around the 80:20 mark goodie vs baddie. 20% fits the description 'substantial portion'. Personally I'd say 'a minority'.
I have several friends in-game who to other people are probably hated, much as with yourself jasonbarron
- - - Updated - - -
I suppose that's the crux, isn't it
I try really hard to be friends with everybody. If that doesn't work I just scatter their pixels, but always in the most respectful, friendly way possible
Lol...
There are two possibilities here that would make your argument stand, and both are ludicrous.
1. Let's assume that...Spending more time on the forum = more favorable judgment by moderators. The PvP players usually dedicate more time to outfit themselves and learn the competitive elements of the game (which is what makes the differentiation between a PvP player and a non PvP player so stark in terms of power and skill), so they would naturally have less time to spend on the forum.
2. Continuing the above bolded assumption. A PvP player spends a lot of time on the forum, but the forum clearly has more vocal anti-PvP moderators, which causes pro-PvP players to have a handicap to begin with.
So I've entertained your argument, and it came back as amusement.
And mind you, I'm the exception to your argument. I technically count as a PvP player, and there is no doubt in my mind that my verbal sparring skill on this forum is infamous at the very least, despite having the handicap of a PvE oriented forum.
So I'll indulge myself in...
*Chuckles in the background*
I try really hard to be friends with everybody. If that doesn't work I just scatter their pixels, but always in the most respectful, friendly way possible
there we go. a concrete example of what the PvE demographic considers the sentiment of open mode. because be honest, you just want to see the explosion, I doubt respect or friendliness has anything to do with it.
Remember that the other guy would always beg to differ and wouldn't be without cause.
Last edited:
And we wonder why stereotype and racism is still a relevant, systematically rooted issue...
I try really hard to be friends with everybody. If that doesn't work I just scatter their pixels, but always in the most respectful, friendly way possible
I try too
But if it doesn't work out I walk away.Using an assumption to prove a conclusion? That seems beneath you, Gluttony!
Skilled with rapier and rapier wit alike, I'm certain!
The rarity of genuine PVP is a large part of the issue IMHO. Youre right, its extraordinarily rare. Almost all hostile encounters (well over 99% in my own experience) are with gankers. Is ganking griefing? Opinions will no doubt vary, but to my mind if a ganker is insulting me, dissing me or generally trying to make me angry while chopping up my non-combat ship - which they can do without swearing or technically breaking rules - its not only poor sportsmanship, its griefing.
If I went down the sports ground for a game of cricket and jeered and taunted the opposing team the umpire would throw me out for unacceptable behaviour. The opposing team would not want to play with me again, and quite likely neither would my own. Same principle applies to Elite and any other game. Theres no reason why a ganker cant destroy my ship and be polite about it at the same time.
I dont know why there is such a pervasive lack of sportsmanship in Elite. I play some dedicated FPS games and if a veteran trashes some noobs (or makes a horrible mistake and gets trashed by another vet) it is quite common for frenemies to offer a bit of coaching or friendly advice on where they went wrong. People that insult others get a bad reputation (because naming and shaming is allowed) and it has long-lasting effects on how other players interact with them, which encourages *good* behaviour (just like real life).
Sorry for the lack of apostrophes, the editor seems to be a bit borked.
Last edited:
I like your sports analogy. I'm sure you are aware that in other sports jeering is very much the norm. In an open environment we cannot assume our own moral code should be applied to others, only to ourselves.
- Status