When can we actually expect some real gameplay content?

[Winterwalker]

I have the same right posting here as everyone else. So stop saying that. I am not going to leave, just because you don't like what I have to say.
I am playing something else btw, but I will still post here as long as I want and criticize this sorry excuse of a game.

Not saying you don't have right to post but why not play the other game, or be a bit more specific? The Reddit has a strong first post, and two or three supporters who don't like interdictions but other comments don't see them as a problem, just part of what is. It's a genuine question then, not get good, but how are you punished 'for fighting interdiction'? (Depends who it is and what you're in doesn't it?)

Thread is 'when can we expect xxx gameplay' .. so what (specifically) do you actually want, from ED unless it is, just spam?

 

[DaveB]

Why should the guy with better flying skills than anyone else in the Galaxy (we Commanders) think like a little guy? Because we are not those little guys. And it still won't make me care about those factions. Because I have no connection to them whatsoever. They are there, cool beans, but I gain nothing if I help them, unless I engage in Powerplay, which has too many drawbacks.
I am especially not content with the "get punished when you defend yourself after being interdicted" nonsense. That is just bad design. Why should I do that when I can do anything the game has to offer without those drawbacks? Oh and you have seen all possible activities after about 5 hours of playing the game. That is a really bad gameplay to money ratio.

And even with Powerplay, it is still the same thing over and over and over. Still no real content. Only grind. It should be renamed to Elite : Grindfest instead of Dangerous.
Because the only dangerous thing in Elite is people giving FD more money to continue that nonsense. Further Season Passes will probably just lock more ways to pimp your ship behind a paywall while the game is rebalanced to those, finally locking people out for good with an unplayable game, because they got none of the Season Passes.

Bottom line, it's because you ARE a little guy. That's what this game is. You're ONE pilot that maybe has a little bit of a leg up on the rest of the universe because the pilots federation has recruited you, so your ship is insured and you start with a few hundred credits. That's it. That's the extent of how you're "special". The only way you get to be "big" is by being a bigger cog in somebody elses machine - and that somebody else ISNT a player, they are a simulated faction, power or superpower. And you'll never lead it, just be a respected operative at best. If you want to be a superhero or to be Han Solo leading a flight of rebellion fighters to change the universe then don;t play Elite, because that's not what you are in this game. Period. You're a freelancer surviving in a universe that is a LOT bigger than you are. You won't be any ind of leader ever. You can't be. You may not like that but THAT'S WHAT THIS GAME IS. Now, the question then becomes "Can you hack that?" If not, you won;t ever succeed in this game. If you've got the stones to cope with that and make your own way, maybe you will - unless Murphy takes a hand. Just like life.

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Not saying you don't have right to post but why not play the other game, or be a bit more specific? The Reddit has a strong first post, and two or three supporters who don't like interdictions but other comments don't see them as a problem, just part of what is. It's a genuine question then, not get good, but how are you punished 'for fighting interdiction'? (Depends who it is and what you're in doesn't it?)

Thread is 'when can we expect xxx gameplay' .. so what (specifically) do you actually want, from ED unless it is, just spam?

I am playing X Rebirth right now, if you want to know and I am considering doing a new playthrough of X3:TC.

What I want from Elite? Being a game with some real content. I have outlined that in a lot of posts of mine already. Let me form a faction that is player driven and not by some simulation and let me have my own slice of space. Bring production into players hands, do a real Economy. Give me Blueprints to build and space to defend. Add some science based activities. Add more modules that make ships vastly different. Everything in this game is brawling. Weapons are too limited, everything is limited by ammo, even SCB and HS. All revolves around going back to the station to restock. The only unlimited thing is fuel. Unless you mine for hours, which utterly boring, to have enough material for Synthesis so you can fight longer. More grind on top of the grind. Give me something else to spend my money on, instead of just bigger ships. Give me plots to play, Story to experience other than reading 10 lines of blog posts every other day. After you have gotten through 2 years worth of blog posts outside of the game, instead of experiencing it yourself in an immersive way. Stop locking Power behind a Paywall that is the Season Pass or stop balancing NPC around it. I can get away from PVP by playing solo, which is of course the point of a MMO. Spaghetti Monster forbid one plays with other people.

Just like life.

If it would even be remotely like that, all the Commanders would have made their own faction and thrown the rest out of the bubble or would wage war to overtake the stations etc.

 

[Sterling MH]

Original Elite was 8 maps of 16346 ish stars, one ship and combat that you could shoot a python out of the sky before it become more than four pixels on the screen. The gameplay was pew pew and cost accountancy with some driving simulation in between the accountancy screens, the reward for which was one of three bigger lazers to make the pewpew go quicker. The End.

But we thought ourselves a brave starship captain. Or obsessed over whether we should upgrade or buy more commodities first. Or just got into the graphics that were crude but we were used to having to fill in with pretending it was real.

And this Elite is far more than that.

But like any sandbox game, and doubly so for this massively sandy and boxy game of Real Space (tm), you have to find out what game you want to play. It won't give any of it to you because there's nothing (really) there. Just like real space.

It wasn't single player therefore there could be no crafting of a world that made you singularly important or craft a story you could follow like the Wing Commander genre and X series. Whether SC will be able to make you feel important along with thousands of other concurrent equally important commanders remains to be seen (cf The Incredibles: when we're all special, that means none of us are).

But because there's no gameplay like that, the game we make up, we HAVE to make up, and that's an indefinitely perpetual resource.

Find a reason to play.

That, right there, is your gameplay.

 

[DaveB]

If it would even be remotely like that, all the Commanders would have made their own faction and thrown the rest out of the bubble or would wage war to overtake the stations etc.

Doesn't exactly seem so in the game in front of us, now, does it.

My attitude gives me an enjoyable game. Yours gives you a gripefest. Since we're both playing the same game, I know which of us is succeeding in it

You're still trying to play this game and judge it like it was any other MMO except set in space. You need to play it as the game it is, not try and force it into a mold it doesn't fit. Open your mind to other possibilities, grasshopper. You're a smart guy, you can do this if you stop limiting your gameplay by thinking "It's a MMO so all of this should work"

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Doesn't exactly seem so in the game in front of us, now, does it.

My attitude gives me an enjoyable game. Yours gives you a gripefest. Since we're both playing the same game, I know which of us is succeeding in it

You're still trying to play this game and judge it like it was any other MMO except set in space. You need to play it as the game it is, not try and force it into a mold it doesn't fit. Open your mind to other possibilities, grasshopper. You're a smart guy, you can do this if you stop limiting your gameplay by thinking "It's a MMO so all of this should work"

Even if you take it as it is, there is no content there. If you are fine with the vastly limited gameplay mechanics that are there, fine.
I, however, haven't lowered my standards yet. And I never will.
You are trying to lower the bar on what makes a good game and I reject your premise.

 

[Winterwalker]

snip ..stop balancing NPC around it. I can get away from PVP by playing solo, which is of course the point of a MMO. Spaghetti Monster forbid one plays with other people.

Right. Yes it's an MMO .. nearly.

It's actually a hybrid because there are about 20,000 systems in the populated bubble and let's say 20,000 players are online. Assuming nobody is out exploring, that's ONE player PER system, average .. so this is why you have to have something else going on (which means NPC's, BGS, Powerplay)

I'm personally not against the player owned things you mention (some people aren't so sure I know) but it will be a while. Reason is the game 'environment' is still expanding .. we can't land on all planets yet, can't walk around, avatars can't shake hands. Once the environments are there, I think FD can look at the kind of guild type play you mention but again, truth .. it really wouldn't make sense to add the player base until you have the full environment (mechanics);

Let's say your player owned base is open to attack. In season one it could only be attacked from the air., only by ships. Season two Horizons, now SRV's or fighters (or ships) can attack. Season 3? Maybe on foot (I don't know FD's plans) + ship + fighter + srv. Now, should FD design your base and how I attack it .. and then my base and how you attack, and then someone else's base and design how we both attack, three bases one by one? (What if they built it in Season One, only by ships??) No. They make it possible to attack 'any' (NPC) base any how, and then they make some bases player owned. It's the logical way to do it because (1) they only want to build the base attack mechanics once if they can, to save dev time and (2) 20,000 star systems, 20,000 players .. the space also wants populating with background NPC or it's empty.

So ED is a hybrid. It's not only single player, it's not only MMO. It can be MMO. It can be single player.
It means ppl have a choice. More choice = more play styles = more players potential.

 

[DaveB]

Even if you take it as it is, there is no content there. If you are fine with the vastly limited gameplay mechanics that are there, fine.
I, however, haven't lowered my standards yet. And I never will.
You are trying to lower the bar on what makes a good game and I reject your premise.

Then the only possible conclusion is that you reject this game. I'll miss you out there in the ED universe even though I've never met you in open or in any PG I play in. Farewell cmdr, good luck in whatever game you do chose to play in. Maybe I'll see you there.

I'm not lowering the bar. Just finding my own way in the game(s) I choose to play. I'm sorry you couldn't do likewise with this one.

 

[Sterling MH]

Base building really, to me, just seems to be a place where you can park your spare ships. For the MMO it would be nice to be able to get your player factions to connect each base which really is just your space garage all together in one lump so you can swap and arrange to wingmate together.

The MMO aspect, because of the size of the universe, really needs some IRL messaging so that you can arrange to be somewhere and get a txt to tell you when each is ready.

It would be nice to be able to have two commanders, completely separate, per account, so while you are waiting you can play on your other personae instead of cooling your heels which turns any meeting in game like trying to organise your dinner break with your colleagues at work. You could just buy a second account, I suppose, but not great idea to me. The second account would require not a txt or tweet, though, but it would require you be notified under both accounts so you can exit and open up the readied account. Hence two per game purchase would be easier to prove you're not multi-tasking your own ship as a mule.

 

[SlugwormX]

Then the only possible conclusion is that you reject this game. I'll miss you out there in the ED universe even though I've never met you in open or in any PG I play in. Farewell cmdr, good luck in whatever game you do chose to play in. Maybe I'll see you there.

I'm not lowering the bar. Just finding my own way in the game(s) I choose to play. I'm sorry you couldn't do likewise with this one.

I liken these conversations to a meeting between a 18th Century Cartier and Isambard Kingdom Brunel. One is happy with the way things are and doesn't want / can't see how things can be improved and the other is a visionary who will change the world. Just because I think the game can be made better doesn't mean I reject what it is now.

 

[Sterling MH]

I liken these conversations to a meeting between a 18th Century Cartier and Isambard Kingdom Brunel. One is happy with the way things are and doesn't want / can't see how things can be improved and the other is a visionary who will change the world. Just because I think the game can be made better doesn't mean I reject what it is now.

A change to the world would be WWII and a nuclear winter.

Change isn't good. It's just change. You need more than "This is change" to convince people that it needs to change, and much ore to convince the dev team to do the work for that change, especially since the change will have bugs and lot of customers complaining. So the upside has to be more than any possible downside and the difference big enough to justify the work.

 

[SlugwormX]

A change to the world would be WWII and a nuclear winter.

Change isn't good. It's just change. You need more than "This is change" to convince people that it needs to change, and much ore to convince the dev team to do the work for that change, especially since the change will have bugs and lot of customers complaining. So the upside has to be more than any possible downside and the difference big enough to justify the work.

If you consider the two options I chose, ie horse drawn carriage to steam power, trains, automation etc you should see I was focusing on a positive model. Sure, there are some downsides but the premise stays the same: some are happy with the status quo, some want to move forward.

 

[DefiledDragon]

A change to the world would be WWII and a nuclear winter.

I know there's a lot of hysteria around Trumps victory, but time travelling with nuclear weapons? Stretching it a bit don't you think?

 

[Sterling MH]

I know there's a lot of hysteria around Trumps victory, but time travelling with nuclear weapons? Stretching it a bit don't you think?

Sheesh, no, just because to you everything is about Orangina over there, this doesn't mean it's the thought of everyone everywhere.

I was thinking more Carl Sagan Cosmos "Nuclear winter" at the end of the series. Watch it some time, it'll help you.

EDIT: And it was a logical extreme. A nuclear winter after a world war is definitely changing the earth, anyone possibly disagree? No? Good. And nobody would say that was a GOOD change,would they. No. So this would be a painfully obvious example of how "Change does not equal Good". Which is what I said it for.

 

[Sasquatch_Punter]

Bottom line, it's because you ARE a little guy. That's what this game is. You're ONE pilot that maybe has a little bit of a leg up on the rest of the universe because the pilots federation has recruited you, so your ship is insured and you start with a few hundred credits. That's it. That's the extent of how you're "special". The only way you get to be "big" is by being a bigger cog in somebody elses machine - and that somebody else ISNT a player, they are a simulated faction, power or superpower. And you'll never lead it, just be a respected operative at best. If you want to be a superhero or to be Han Solo leading a flight of rebellion fighters to change the universe then don;t play Elite, because that's not what you are in this game. Period. You're a freelancer surviving in a universe that is a LOT bigger than you are. You won't be any ind of leader ever. You can't be. You may not like that but THAT'S WHAT THIS GAME IS. Now, the question then becomes "Can you hack that?" If not, you won;t ever succeed in this game. If you've got the stones to cope with that and make your own way, maybe you will - unless Murphy takes a hand. Just like life.

This would be awesome if the game felt like a living, breathing universe. Who wouldn't want to feel like an insignificant speck in a massive, thriving galaxy?

Unfortunately, ED is a big simulated galaxy that fails to be better than bland and repetitive. DB's concern when he was making the game was that everything would start to feel the same, and that's essentially what's happened. It's the ultimate nemesis of procedural generation and it's exacerbated in Elite because of the game's emphasis on micro content (combat, fighting, meeting NPCs, driving, other mundanities, etc.) vs macro content like building and managing an empire. That design works for detailed RPGs like Skyrim, it doesn't work for a game like ED that prioritizes the high-level background simulation over smaller, more detailed simulations of individual star systems. They need to work on expanding the latter if they want that design emphasis to make sense.

 

[DaveB]

Sheesh, no, just because to you everything is about Orangina over there, this doesn't mean it's the thought of everyone everywhere.

I was thinking more Carl Sagan Cosmos "Nuclear winter" at the end of the series. Watch it some time, it'll help you.

EDIT: And it was a logical extreme. A nuclear winter after a world war is definitely changing the earth, anyone possibly disagree? No? Good. And nobody would say that was a GOOD change,would they. No. So this would be a painfully obvious example of how "Change does not equal Good". Which is what I said it for.

Let's just say I'm profoundly glad to have relocated back to Scotland in November last year after 20 years in the midwest. "Change" isn't good when it means throwing 50 years of progress in the Drumpfster. I'll take living with Brexit and a potential independent Scotland over Orangina any day!

 

[Sterling MH]

macro content like building and managing an empire.

Honestly, that demands a standalone singleplayer, never work, even in the 1:1 sized universe, for the same reason why the 4billion square minecraft universe isn't an offset to limited resources like Forestry Bees: There may be a billion chunks never farmed for hives out there in the multiplayer server, but nobody moves more than 2000 blocks or so from spawn and even then you might as well be playing solo.

And despite 400 billion star systems, only those within an hours' "boring" chain jumping and scooping will ever be populated by playerbuilt empires, and that will suddenly get VERY busy and overpopulated in the MMO of Elite Dangerous. Anyone outside that will have so far to travel they won't be visited and will be basically stuffed by location. And the early starters will have the CBD properties and make out like bandits because of that location.

Really. Don't, thinking this way only works while the game is in your head. When it hits the road, it'll be a disaster.

- - - Updated - - -

If you consider the two options I chose, ie horse drawn carriage to steam power, trains, automation etc you should see I was focusing on a positive model.

And you're assuming the consequent, a logical fallacy. You're saying that because you thought of good changes, that your "changes" must be good.

 

[Enderby]

This thread is great there's some really good, pompous stuff here to chuckle at.

 

[DaveB]

This would be awesome if the game felt like a living, breathing universe. Who wouldn't want to feel like an insignificant speck in a massive, thriving galaxy?

Unfortunately, ED is a big simulated galaxy that fails to be better than bland and repetitive. DB's concern when he was making the game was that everything would start to feel the same, and that's essentially what's happened. It's the ultimate nemesis of procedural generation and it's exacerbated in Elite because of the game's emphasis on micro content (combat, fighting, meeting NPCs, driving, other mundanities, etc.) vs macro content like building and managing an empire. That design works for detailed RPGs like Skyrim, it doesn't work for a game like ED that prioritizes the high-level background simulation over smaller, more detailed simulations of individual star systems. They need to work on expanding the latter if they want that design emphasis to make sense.

Sounds like you're arguing for exactly what we've got. A "living breathing galaxy" WILL be repetitive. It WILL be "bland" when it comes to an individual pilot's experience. It's an entire frellin' GALAXY and you're just one pilot in one ship. Say hello to the steamroller, my friend. If you don;t pick your fights carefully, where the universe is already at a tipping point where you can change things, prepare to be flattened.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

I agree with the part about people trying the game and then disappearing. I'm originally from Quebec, met a few guys that are there, friended them. They show up 1 or 2 weeks, then they disappear never to be seen again...

And speaking of the breathing universe, yes, there is the BGS. But I think the different state a system that can get into are not clarified enough. I know there is a boom state, civil war, a retreat, and a few others I forget because I see the states only in the galaxy map or when jumping to a system. I have no idea what the order of states are. I know how war can start between 2 minor factions but that's about it. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Only people fully invested in BGS activities know what's going on. I think there are many parts of Elite Dangerous that are very hard to understand unless you decide to investigate them. Me? Investigating the BGS? It's actually not rewarding enough for me and way too time consuming. I will sometimes help my team in PowerPlay when they need to flip a system, start a war, but that's pretty much it.

So, there is a big part in this BGS but I bet it's still mysterious to many players.

Exploration could use a little help as well. 2.2 (or was it 2.1?) introduced geysers and fumaroles. I decided to make a longer trip part exploration and part passenger mission to the Black Treasure, a black hole a little bit over 5,000 ly away. Along the way, I was always scanning each system (while scooping) and surface scanning any planet that looked interesting. I was specially giving attention to planets that were reported with geyser activities. Never found one. Even with my surface scanner, there was nothing. After a few hundreds jumps, scoop, scan and then charge, it gets a little lonely. It's already a little boring to be in the same ship for 2 to 3 weeks, if we could at least find interesting things on our exploration trips, that would make exploration a lot more exciting. I'm not even mentioning that after a few hundreds scans, all planets more or less look the same. A high-metal one, a rocky one, an icy one, a few gas giants and a few ammonia-based worlds and, if you're lucky, maybe one Earth-liked. I guess that's what our galaxy is. I would just like to find some interesting features on those planets.