Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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Factabulous

Factabulous
dynamicbob said:
h thanks was wondering why it wasnt on the frontpage, guess it got so complex they pushed it into a spreadsheet, thanks again
Click to expand...

No worries - that sheet is on the FP, it's programad's (listed as The Most Complete), but the FP is ... large. I only knew 'cos I was online when the ruins were found and someone else posted to update that one, so I keep re-posting it as the different shifts come online :) Now if you lot can find the missing language combo's it would be most appreciated[up]
 

CMDR Dreamstate

CMDR Dreamstate
Suteksio said:
And this ones would be for Synuefe XO-P c22-17 D 2

Lunar orbit coordinates
----------------
10.999999999999998,169.0000000000001
13.56972888093327,176.7089157372591
15.898222876321618,-175.4218421995204
17.936006580122967,-167.38039811508864
19.636328431274496,-159.1678425374733
20.957235881005317,-150.79981997371638
21.86400718894913,-142.30669044433859
22.331604722848954,-133.73171741774507
22.346705591517235,-125.12712929257346
21.90887468851308,-116.54850190852765
21.030604104425482,-108.04847373324024
19.736209334938184,-99.67104778582504
18.059843063558308,-91.44752070455176
16.043055495934365,-83.39452834518201
13.732349125307477,-75.51409043931713
11.177072619554554,-67.795124236402
8.42784170180903,-60.21576906591644
5.535528389799423,-52.74596117522158
2.550757493208533,-45.349901647970036
-0.47620551379188963,-37.988268922986244
-3.4953114649016634,-30.620188522282525
-6.45646842451872,-23.205072414457806
-9.309304181360442,-15.704483563617737
-12.003088344556787,-8.084173327103384
-14.48695320654775,-0.3163792398076676
-16.710545854496658,7.6176482948817466
-18.625214715224125,15.725100861865556
-20.18576488698975,23.99947397850544
-21.35269870707669,32.41944459693663
-10.999999999999998,-10.999999999999886
-13.56972888093327,-3.2910842627408954
-15.898222876321618,4.578157800479602
-17.936006580122967,12.619601884911361
-19.636328431274496,20.83215746252671
-20.957235881005317,29.20018002628362
-21.86400718894913,37.693309555661415
-22.331604722848954,46.268282582254926
-22.346705591517235,54.87287070742654
-21.90887468851308,63.451498091472345
-21.030604104425482,71.95152626675976
-19.736209334938184,80.32895221417496
-18.059843063558308,88.55247929544824
-16.043055495934365,96.60547165481799
-13.732349125307477,104.48590956068287
-11.177072619554554,112.204875763598
-8.42784170180903,119.78423093408355
-5.535528389799423,127.25403882477842
-2.550757493208533,134.65009835202997
0.47620551379188963,142.01173107701376
3.4953114649016634,149.37981147771748
6.45646842451872,156.79492758554218
9.309304181360442,164.29551643638226
12.003088344556787,171.91582667289663
14.48695320654775,179.68362076019233
16.710545854496658,-172.38235170511825
18.625214715224125,-164.27489913813446
20.18576488698975,-156.00052602149455
21.35269870707669,-147.58055540306339


Parallel orbit coordinates
----------------
-14.194860387328955,169.88522111914358
-10.45892155995555,-175.6041458875134
-8.393630024749323,-168.61311771025876
-6.614509270788567,-161.57706763460735
-5.150397900354375,-154.49123798921204
-4.025913267594508,-147.35786732646525
-3.2605835279461255,-140.1853642184587
-2.868039604885154,-132.98702115019216
-2.8553866606700127,-125.7792984759848
-3.2228550413267554,-118.57979870030319
-3.9637887122982027,-111.40512322211
-5.064973136622262,-104.26883226918548
-6.507247994762171,-97.17970361410582
-8.266306919305826,-90.14041599358497
-10.313565217737638,-83.14669318379941
-12.616978370298584,-76.18686244783926
-15.141713291949692,-69.24172750953103
-17.850602268939582,-62.28464029870543
-20.70433828422512,-55.281676525054245
-23.6613957356285,-48.19187283942965
-26.67768241072865,-40.96756525855141
-29.70595166128539,-33.55498239670472
-32.69503707912588,-25.89539936481076
-35.589028727221354,-17.927349418538927
-38.3266051669556,-9.590590817118766
-40.84087813029234,-0.8326307661947513
-43.06027911555022,8.38162107054348
-44.911138742392644,18.05743418931643
-46.32250380970785,28.15737540671962
-36.19178314532895,-9.936604405610643
-37.30744049430419,6.227896833337191
-39.91490513989195,13.374030659917855
-42.25516427853642,20.418834014651456
-44.254909662850274,27.341935778291813
-45.84143464064697,34.13185683548386
-46.948888073710286,40.79657240006753
-47.52621721030926,47.36977876160094
-47.54493526833352,53.90788574915987
-47.00409576264625,60.47681933887442
-45.93046582329909,67.13412464883545
-44.3738243657022,73.91522017159308
-42.39929687459871,80.82967435887724
-40.079353283676284,87.86698964797611
-37.48740917975491,95.00705038902314
-34.693747534003315,102.2302338793401
-31.763541854905036,109.5244473160258
-28.756363759638838,116.88862508868357
-25.726548140703873,124.3334308584303
-22.723940863036105,131.8801627443622
-19.794721845707965,139.55862704770138
-16.982124146264255,147.40439342623614
-14.326951262695433,155.45555405073995
-11.867842660614338,163.74894495661843
-9.641266426462941,172.31576846692622
-7.681239872800549,-178.82330960880438
-6.018801570804526,-169.66322906801267
-4.681284887950352,-160.21902477133344
-3.691472305157775,-150.52863441733203
Click to expand...

This is awesome.

The co-ords I've marked [link: here] as the best to search on the dark side of the planet means that, at [edit: 30, sorry] 30, the line of the moon's orbit on D 2 is almost slap-bang in the middle as your traveling:

30.xxxx by 180.xxxx and -180.xxxx

30.xxxx by -150.xxxx

30.xxxx by -120.xxxx

30.xxxx by -90.xxxx

30.xxxx by -60xxxx (-60 is over the edge and is light side, not dark side)
 
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nrage

nrage
morph113 said:
If you mean LOS then no its not true. The planets rotate and sometimes the other ruins are in LOS and sometimes not. Sometimes none are in LOS.
Click to expand...

I was musing about this. I was wondering if perhaps the sites are configured such that 3 or 4 of them together form a "node" which has LOS to the previous and next "node"s in a sequence stretching across the galaxy. So, given the rotations, perhaps at least 1 will be pointing back to the previous node, 1 to the next node, and 1 will have LOS on both the other 2 to make the "connection".

We were given 2 outlying systems (the first ruins was one) and 3 systems in a triangle. If my musing were true, the 3 in the triangle might form the connecting relay described above and the original ruins and other outlier might be part of another "node" of 3.

Not sure how this "helps" at this stage, unless someone could figure out the required rotation/orientation of a site based on this idea.
 

Thisdale

T
Hey guys,

Im in the 3rd ruins system, but im a bit lost... is the planet C3 300,000LS from the main star? holy crap!?
 
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MacFly

M
Suteksio said:
And this ones would be for Synuefe XO-P c22-17 D 2

Lunar orbit coordinates
----------------
10.999999999999998,169.0000000000001
13.56972888093327,176.7089157372591
15.898222876321618,-175.4218421995204
17.936006580122967,-167.38039811508864
19.636328431274496,-159.1678425374733
20.957235881005317,-150.79981997371638
21.86400718894913,-142.30669044433859
22.331604722848954,-133.73171741774507
22.346705591517235,-125.12712929257346
21.90887468851308,-116.54850190852765
21.030604104425482,-108.04847373324024
19.736209334938184,-99.67104778582504
18.059843063558308,-91.44752070455176
16.043055495934365,-83.39452834518201
13.732349125307477,-75.51409043931713
11.177072619554554,-67.795124236402
8.42784170180903,-60.21576906591644
5.535528389799423,-52.74596117522158
2.550757493208533,-45.349901647970036
-0.47620551379188963,-37.988268922986244
-3.4953114649016634,-30.620188522282525
-6.45646842451872,-23.205072414457806
-9.309304181360442,-15.704483563617737
-12.003088344556787,-8.084173327103384
-14.48695320654775,-0.3163792398076676
-16.710545854496658,7.6176482948817466
-18.625214715224125,15.725100861865556
-20.18576488698975,23.99947397850544
-21.35269870707669,32.41944459693663
-10.999999999999998,-10.999999999999886
-13.56972888093327,-3.2910842627408954
-15.898222876321618,4.578157800479602
-17.936006580122967,12.619601884911361
-19.636328431274496,20.83215746252671
-20.957235881005317,29.20018002628362
-21.86400718894913,37.693309555661415
-22.331604722848954,46.268282582254926
-22.346705591517235,54.87287070742654
-21.90887468851308,63.451498091472345
-21.030604104425482,71.95152626675976
-19.736209334938184,80.32895221417496
-18.059843063558308,88.55247929544824
-16.043055495934365,96.60547165481799
-13.732349125307477,104.48590956068287
-11.177072619554554,112.204875763598
-8.42784170180903,119.78423093408355
-5.535528389799423,127.25403882477842
-2.550757493208533,134.65009835202997
0.47620551379188963,142.01173107701376
3.4953114649016634,149.37981147771748
6.45646842451872,156.79492758554218
9.309304181360442,164.29551643638226
12.003088344556787,171.91582667289663
14.48695320654775,179.68362076019233
16.710545854496658,-172.38235170511825
18.625214715224125,-164.27489913813446
20.18576488698975,-156.00052602149455
21.35269870707669,-147.58055540306339


Parallel orbit coordinates
----------------
-14.194860387328955,169.88522111914358
-10.45892155995555,-175.6041458875134
-8.393630024749323,-168.61311771025876
-6.614509270788567,-161.57706763460735
-5.150397900354375,-154.49123798921204
-4.025913267594508,-147.35786732646525
-3.2605835279461255,-140.1853642184587
-2.868039604885154,-132.98702115019216
-2.8553866606700127,-125.7792984759848
-3.2228550413267554,-118.57979870030319
-3.9637887122982027,-111.40512322211
-5.064973136622262,-104.26883226918548
-6.507247994762171,-97.17970361410582
-8.266306919305826,-90.14041599358497
-10.313565217737638,-83.14669318379941
-12.616978370298584,-76.18686244783926
-15.141713291949692,-69.24172750953103
-17.850602268939582,-62.28464029870543
-20.70433828422512,-55.281676525054245
-23.6613957356285,-48.19187283942965
-26.67768241072865,-40.96756525855141
-29.70595166128539,-33.55498239670472
-32.69503707912588,-25.89539936481076
-35.589028727221354,-17.927349418538927
-38.3266051669556,-9.590590817118766
-40.84087813029234,-0.8326307661947513
-43.06027911555022,8.38162107054348
-44.911138742392644,18.05743418931643
-46.32250380970785,28.15737540671962
-36.19178314532895,-9.936604405610643
-37.30744049430419,6.227896833337191
-39.91490513989195,13.374030659917855
-42.25516427853642,20.418834014651456
-44.254909662850274,27.341935778291813
-45.84143464064697,34.13185683548386
-46.948888073710286,40.79657240006753
-47.52621721030926,47.36977876160094
-47.54493526833352,53.90788574915987
-47.00409576264625,60.47681933887442
-45.93046582329909,67.13412464883545
-44.3738243657022,73.91522017159308
-42.39929687459871,80.82967435887724
-40.079353283676284,87.86698964797611
-37.48740917975491,95.00705038902314
-34.693747534003315,102.2302338793401
-31.763541854905036,109.5244473160258
-28.756363759638838,116.88862508868357
-25.726548140703873,124.3334308584303
-22.723940863036105,131.8801627443622
-19.794721845707965,139.55862704770138
-16.982124146264255,147.40439342623614
-14.326951262695433,155.45555405073995
-11.867842660614338,163.74894495661843
-9.641266426462941,172.31576846692622
-7.681239872800549,-178.82330960880438
-6.018801570804526,-169.66322906801267
-4.681284887950352,-160.21902477133344
-3.691472305157775,-150.52863441733203
Click to expand...

nice work. thank you sir!
 

SpaceGoblin

SpaceGoblin
Thisdale said:
my god.. i'll just go watch a movie.. ;)
Click to expand...

Nah, only takes about 10 mins :)

Right I'm shattered, time to call it a night.

Good work to everyone busy cracking site 3.

Good luck to all those searching for further sites - I confess I hope someone using AdmlAdama's co-ord/moon off-set calculator finds the next one, but I may be a tiny bit biased [squeeeee]
 
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nrage

nrage
PavelKCZ said:
Well, probably I will not help much (beeing 22.000 LYs away), but I have one question.

When I am looking at those coordinates and at the debate about those coordinates, did someone tried to think about the positions of those ruins in terms or radians, sinus, cosinus, pi, 2xpi, pi/2 etc ? You know, those simple geometry things, where sin(30 deg) = sin(pi/6) = cos (pi/3) = 1/2. Things like that...

Guardians maybe do not divide circle to 360 pieces, but certainly they know the ratio between diameter of the circle and its circumference. It is one of the invariant constants in the known Universe...
Click to expand...

I agree. This is why any theory based on measuring some number of degrees from the image/map of the site and turning those into lat/long values is almost certainly wrong, IMO. However.. Humans measure latitude from the equator (which is a physical place on a rotating body) and we draw latitude lines around the planet from 0 to -90 and from 0 to +90. The actual values don't matter as much as the fact that -30 and +30 are 1/3rd the distance, -60/+60 are 2/3rds, and so on. Given the guardians predilection for triangles these divisions seem relevant. So, theories based on latitude are, IMO, far more likely to be valid.

The same cannot be said for longitude, the position of the 0 line is arbitrary. Which is why my favourite theory based on lat/long is AdmlAdama's and it involves the position of the moon. With the first 2 sites, if you view the horizon from the end of the central ridge, you will see the moon rise from the horizon beyond the smaller circular structure. The moon then sets on the horizon beyond the larger circular structure. It therefore follows a path which does not go directly over the ruins, but passes to the "left" (using the typical ruins orientation). And, as such, AdmlAdama's effort so far has been in calculating the moons path and adding an offset to this path based .. well, this bit I don't understand.

The point is, however, that the numbers AdmlAdama is coming up with do seem to match the ruin sites. So, were I a betting man I would place my bet on this method producing results. If I had more game time I would be picking lat/long values off the "Parallel orbit coordinates" list posted by Suteksio here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=5087002&viewfull=1#post5087002

I would start with -31.763541854905036,109.5244473160258 personally, as I think anything near -/+30 or 60 is more likely.
 
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Pumabear8

Pumabear8
I need someone to confirm what I'm seeing here, coords are on the hud, I've not attempted to get closer, yet.

need a bathroom break, back soon!

Floating_cities_2.jpg
 

nrage

nrage
One thought.. on a tidally locked body it might "make sense" (to the guardians) to place their equivalent of the 0 longitude line at the point which is always facing the parent body. So.. would it be worth measuring the human longitude value for this point, and taking the difference between this and the site longitude. If we do this for each site, and they come out to the same value that would be pretty sweet.
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
@Pavel and nrage.

If someone gives you a number, it's smart to think radians or fractions of a circle.

As long as you measure, you can use what ever you want. It does not make a difference.
 

CMDR T3RO I KTULU

C
nrage said:
I agree. This is why any theory based on measuring some number of degrees from the image/map of the site and turning those into lat/long values is almost certainly wrong, IMO. However.. Humans measure latitude from the equator (which is a physical place on a rotating body) and we draw latitude lines around the planet from 0 to -90 and from 0 to +90. The actual values don't matter as much as the fact that -30 and +30 are 1/3rd the distance, -60/+60 are 2/3rds, and so on. Given the guardians predilection for triangles these divisions seem relevant. So, theories based on latitude are, IMO, far more likely to be valid.

The same cannot be said for longitude, the position of the 0 line is arbitrary. Which is why my favourite theory based on lat/long is AdmlAdama's and it involves the position of the moon. With the first 2 sites, if you view the horizon from the end of the central ridge, you will see the moon rise from the horizon beyond the smaller circular structure. The moon then sets on the horizon beyond the larger circular structure. It therefore follows a path which does not go directly over the ruins, but passes to the "left" (using the typical ruins orientation). And, as such, AdmlAdama's effort so far has been in calculating the moons path and adding an offset to this path based .. well, this bit I don't understand.

The point is, however, that the numbers AdmlAdama is coming up with do seem to match the ruin sites. So, were I a betting man I would place my bet on this method producing results. If I had more game time I would be picking lat/long values off the "Parallel orbit coordinates" list posted by Suteksio here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=5087002&viewfull=1#post5087002

I would start with -31.763541854905036,109.5244473160258 personally, as I think anything near -/+30 or 60 is more likely.
Click to expand...

I'm totally agree. guardians are hunters and nomad peoples , they need to look very carefully around ! moon seems be a good landmark as the same that the visible nebulas from ruins site .
 

nrage

nrage
Han_Zen said:
@Pavel and nrage.

If someone gives you a number, it's smart to think radians or fractions of a circle.

As long as you measure, you can use what ever you want. It does not make a difference.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I think you're missing the point.

If you measure an angle (in unit's called "degrees") then without performing any conversion change the units to "latitude" you're doing something wrong.

Edit: As a concrete example. If the guardians wanted to represent -30 latitude, they could do so as either 1/3rd of something (120 degrees / 2.0944 radians) or 1/6th of something (60 degrees / 1.0472 radians). In either case, it would not be 30 degrees/radians and there is no justification to go from X degrees to X latitude.
 
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Liet Atreides

Liet Atreides
I thought about Guardians and why these moons are around ruins. Maybe they wanted to shield themselves from unwanted sun rays/radiation this way. Whats the other reason for placing ruins so in similar way, Frontier [cool].

AdmlAdama said:
Alright. Finally got it working and it's very rough but should get somebody started.

Lunar Orbit and Parallel Orbit for Ruins
Here's, for example, the first site. Indeed the ruins fall right on the line.
http://i.imgur.com/63pCFjY.jpg
To use this download and extract the pages here and open it directly on your desktop
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4k4asdu9lboal9n/lunar-ruin-orbitalpath.zip?dl=0
Gather 2 latitude and longitude readings for a given moon using the following method
In supercruise get the moon as close to the top of the targeting UI as possible and then drop your altitude down below the DRP indicator as seen here.
http://i.imgur.com/mGIwAeT.jpg
This allows you to use your escape vector as a direct overhead pointer to line up with the moon.
Line it up as perfectly as possible and then note the in game date/time and latitude and longitude of your ship.
http://i.imgur.com/ZyLNZ0Q.jpg
Do this twice and enter these coordinates as the Lat/Lon and the radius in km and hit calculate. What you'll get is a visual display of the orbit and the parallel one the ruins should be found on.

A text output with the lunar orbit and the parallel one is also ourput so you can fly from one to another.

Some caveats:
1. Ideally I'd like to host this somewhere. Just don't have anywhere to do so. If you do and would like to please message me.
2. This is very rough. No error catch for inputs, etc. but wanted to put it out there so others could use it to help narrow down their searches.
3. I'm using a map so the orbit can be visualized. Even though the earth is used in the background the proper radius is being used for distance calculations.
4. You have to refresh the page to run a new calculation. I need to add a clear to remove existing markers, etc.

Credits:
I'm using the HTML samples from arc.js
https://github.com/springmeyer/arc.js/
and mostly the calculations and methods from http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong-vectors.html
I want to thank Suteksio for helping gather coordinates and others for helping to bounce around the math needed to make this work. The library had the tools for it... just had to wrap my head around what had to be done.
As well as Bram Armitage for helping calculate distance ingame so I could verify my tangent and radius calculations
Click to expand...
Thats solid idea. Yet still we just guessing coordinates.
 
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