2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Robert Maynard]

You shouldn't be distinguishing between the two. Employees at FDev are given a contract to guarantee their future employment. We're not talking about contractors.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-17-frontier-developments-240-people-and-still-indie

You must when the contention is that all of those who participated in the development of the game were on permanent contracts....

Also, the 240 would include the studio in Canada (opened 2012, closed 2015) - with necessary duplication of some non-development roles.

 

[raymondo the great]

Perfect logic, because the team that made the FPS made the engine, and created the foundation of the racing game. They know more about the racing game than the second team you brought in later to launch the title.

You really don't know how this works do you?

Let me reiterate. FDevs employees are under Permanent contract. They aren't going anywhere.

They are not disposable napkins, they are highly skilled professionals that can be used over and over for every project imaginable. If they weren't flexible and capable of applying their skills to any task, they wouldn't have a job, because that's what it takes to make a living as a game developer. The same goes for the employer, they can give you notice that your permanent contract is no longer needed, it's called "redundancy", the only difference between this and the normal casual dev work is you know if they downsize you'll get a few months wages as a payoff!

Given that these people have jobs, I'm pretty sure they have the skills to be a game developer, and thus work on any project they're put on.

hahahahaha

You really don't know how this works do you?

I code for a living, I have a "permanent contract" I can still leave the company! Having a permanent contract is not some "till death do us part" indentured servitude! Programmers aren't imperial slaves! They can up and leave basically whenever they feel like it! Providing they provide notice, which generally in the UK is 1 month till you get to mid-management level.

Please....try and use arguments that don't make you look like you don't have a clue what you are talking about!

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Nope, the Cobra engine has been around for some time now, well before ED came out. Please get your facts straight.

This is the fourth Cobra engine, buddy. They change the engine, but not the name, because.....?

I have no idea, it's just silly honestly.

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hahahahaha

You really don't know how this works do you?

I code for a living, I have a "permanent contract" I can still leave the company! Having a permanent contract is not some "till death do us part" indentured servitude! Programmers aren't imperial slaves! They can up and leave basically whenever they feel like it! Providing they provide notice, which generally in the UK is 1 month till you get to mid-management level.

Please....try and use arguments that don't make you look like you don't have a clue what you are talking about!

No crap you can leave any time you want to.

What that permanent contract prevents from happening is your employer firing you tomorrow without at least a decent amount of severance pay, correct?

Do you have any idea how uncommon that is in game development? Sometimes 70% of the team or more is cut without notice after release depending on how the sales look.

 

[Sterling MH]

Not so very different from the 3 players in 3 ships with one SLF each - they still have an advantage over a single ship with 3 players in it.

What two NPC SLF per player would do is give players who do not Wing up (and I expect that Frontier know what proportion of the player-base does not) a similar capability to a Multi-Crewed ship with three players on board.

Then you'll be still outclassed by someone who can get a friend to bring their ship along.

So you'll demand NPC pilots, as many as can wing if they're PCs.

But NPCs aren't as good, so you'll want to increase those capabilities with computer cheats (cf railguns in NPC hands).

And those NPC wingmen will be available to Solo players. And then the server has to add the power of all the ships you have with you to work out a challenge or it's a meaningless bug hunt.

Meanwhile your computer has to handle all these fake players, and you can't offload to the GPU, so you'll need the top of the line Intel I7 chip and anyone on less won't be able to play with these NPC helpers, because the framerate drops to silly levels in combat. Which is bad enough in Solo, but when playing against another human, the one with the fastest CPU wins.

See the problems?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You shouldn't be distinguishing between the two. Employees at FDev are given a contract to guarantee their future employment. We're not talking about contractors.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-17-frontier-developments-240-people-and-still-indie

And, still there is absalutly zero proof. Infact we have proof that they are increasing the staff numbers. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Then you'll be still outclassed by someone who can get a friend to bring their ship along.

So you'll demand NPC pilots, as many as can wing if they're PCs.

But NPCs aren't as good, so you'll want to increase those capabilities with computer cheats (cf railguns in NPC hands).

And those NPC wingmen will be available to Solo players. And then the server has to add the power of all the ships you have with you to work out a challenge or it's a meaningless bug hunt.

Meanwhile your computer has to handle all these fake players, and you can't offload to the GPU, so you'll need the top of the line Intel I7 chip and anyone on less won't be able to play with these NPC helpers, because the framerate drops to silly levels in combat. Which is bad enough in Solo, but when playing against another human, the one with the fastest CPU wins.

See the problems?

Possibly. Not in Solo though.

NPC Wingmen have been in the design for a long time - yet to be implemented though.

The server does not, to my knowledge, manage the NPCs - that's down to the game client.

Our PCs already handle all of the NPCs in our instance - whether they are our hired NPC pilots or not.

 

[Caointean]

The big question is "How complete will the CMDR creator be, on a scale from 0 to Black Desert Online ?".
And will it be available before release so we can have our CMDRs set up as soon as 2.3 goes live ?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

And, still there is absalutly zero proof. Infact we have proof that they are increasing the staff numbers. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Increasing staff numbers for what games?

They've moved on from ED, they're in the process of moving on from Planet Coaster, and when they release those games they'll do the same thing they've done with these two titles.

Take valuable, experienced staff and put them on new projects to guarantee future income, because existing products do not increase in yearly sales, they only decrease.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

The big question is "How complete will the CMDR creator be, on a scale from 0 to Black Desert Online ?".
And will it be available before release so we can have our CMDRs set up as soon as 2.3 goes live ?

Honestly going to be upset if they can't meet the standards set by Conan Exiles for "Physique Sliders".

 

[Connolly91]

How about some content for solo players? Ohhhh that's right.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I'm not defending the crap shoot that was the pointers error

Or the many bugs that were introduced in 2.2 that stopped me playing for over a month. Or the instamission fails, or the amount of bugs that make it though beta etc etc I have also in the past been highly critical about their lack of comms to paying customers when paid for content is delayed

I'm just saying there is no evidence the game is dying and the devs are stripping development to work on other stuff. These are totally different and unrelated arguments!

It is perfectly plausible that the same team that worked on 1.6 is still making the same mistakes now as it was then!

See the difference?

2.1/1.6 was already being developed under a much reduced number of staff.

I'm glad you noticed the correlation.

 

[Sterling MH]

Possibly. Not in Solo though.

Why not? There's no reason to write the code out in Solo. And if you can have NPCs buffing your ship or winging with you, why would you be unable to do it when there's only other NPCs against you???

NPC Wingmen have been in the design for a long time - yet to be implemented though.

Citation needed. Plus I've not said or even implied that they're not designed, just that implementation from your demands will result in an arms war, one that will hammer your CPU and either cause the game to stall or make you upgrade.

The server does not, to my knowledge, manage the NPCs - that's down to the game client.

Uh, your PC has a CPU.

Our PCs already handle all of the NPCs in our instance - whether they are our hired NPC pilots or not.

But you can't hire NPCs. So the PC doesn't handle them.

And if you get them, then you need to have more NPCs against you. I did mention all this. Did you not read the post you're replying to, or did you just click on "Reply with quote" and skip the reading part?

And, yes, it has to handle NPCs. So why the digression into "The server doesn't manage NPCs"???

 

[raymondo the great]

This is the fourth Cobra engine, buddy. They change the engine, but not the name, because.....?

I have no idea, it's just silly honestly.

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No crap you can leave any time you want to.

What that permanent contract prevents from happening is your employer firing you tomorrow without at least a decent amount of severance pay, correct?

Do you have any idea how uncommon that is in game development? Sometimes 70% of the team or more is cut without notice after release depending on how the sales look.

Yes I know that, as is perfectly obvious from my comment!

That though doesn't mean "THEY AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE" as you stated

It doesn't mean they cant leave for other jobs, for sabbaticals or any other reason. It doesn't mean FD have to send you personal notification that someone has left! Rather than letting them "leave quietly" as you suggested implying they were somehow covering this up! Staff leave, staff move, staff quit heck staff even die! Permanent contract or not! Totally irrelevant what sort of contract they are on. Doesn't prove ED has been stripped of resources to feed other projects, and even if a few people did move it wouldn't prove they weren't replaced!

Again you have no proof of any of the crap you are spouting, hence making up arguments about permeant contracts and pretending that somehow proves your point! It doesn't prove anything! Other than they are nicer to their employees than the average game dev!

 

[Sterling MH]

How about some content for solo players? Ohhhh that's right.

Ohh, that executable "Elite: Dangerous", you can click on it and you get content to play solo.

*I* don't play PG or open. Never will until C&P makes risk something I can manage in Open. Somehow a game I can play seems to be sufficient content in a game I paid for. Choosing to play Solo rather than Multiplayer is my choice, as it is yours. And if you deliberately eschew content there, then you can't blame the lack of content you chose not to use on the publisher.

I blame them for other things, but not things I chose to do myself.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Increasing staff numbers for what games?

They've moved on from ED, they're in the process of moving on from Planet Coaster, and when they release those games they'll do the same thing they've done with these two titles.

Take valuable, experienced staff and put them on new projects to guarantee future income, because existing products do not increase in yearly sales, they only decrease.

Increasing staff number for their new IP as I have already stated. As I said, I fully expect planet coaster and planet safari dev teams to be working very closely together as the tools they have created for PC will be very similar for PS.

As stated, ED is a completely different game with a different tool set etc, etc. I'm sure there will be some crossover though. But what you are saying is till complete speculation without any kind of proof.

Please provide some proof as you have provided a grand total of zero at the moment, and then I will take what you say seriously.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

2.1/1.6 was already being developed under a much reduced number of staff.

I'm glad you noticed the correlation.

PROOF PLEASE. Oh yeah, none, again.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Yes I know that, as is perfectly obvious from my comment!

That though doesn't mean "THEY AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE" as you stated

It doesn't mean they cant leave for other jobs, for sabbaticals or any other reason. It doesn't mean FD have to send you personal notification that someone has left! Rather than letting them "leave quietly" as you suggested implying they were somehow covering this up! Staff leave, staff move, staff quit heck staff even die! Permanent contract or not! Totally irrelevant what sort of contract they are on. Doesn't prove ED has been stripped of resources to feed other projects, and even if a few people did move it wouldn't prove they weren't replaced!

Again you have no proof of any of the crap you are spouting, hence making up arguments about permeant contracts and pretending that somehow proves your point! It doesn't prove anything! Other than they are nicer to their employees than the average game dev!

I never suggested they were covering anything up. I think you've bit your own tail in your circular argument one too many times, perhaps you should review on what the point was that you were trying to make?

Fact: Companies need to make a profit, and pouring resources into a game that is not pulling in enough profit to float the company is not a good idea.

ED was kickstarted, and then they sold a $60 expansion, and FDev is still clamoring to kick more titles out the door. They wouldn't have done any of this if ED was some ungodly cash cow that was profitable beyond their wildest dreams, they'd be dumping everything they have into it to keep the silly profits rolling in.

 

[Deedrix]

So what's the point of compiling all hype/complaints/feedback in one thread when FD most likely isn't even going to listen to any of it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Why not? There's no reason to write the code out in Solo. And if you can have NPCs buffing your ship or winging with you, why would you be unable to do it when there's only other NPCs against you???

You can't be outclassed by another player with a friend as Wingman in Solo.

Citation needed. Plus I've not said or even implied that they're not designed, just that implementation from your demands will result in an arms war, one that will hammer your CPU and either cause the game to stall or make you upgrade.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14580

The game client already handles all of the NPCs in an instance - so why would having a few of then under "control" of the player suddenly "hammer your CPU"?

Uh, your PC has a CPU.

Of course - and runs the game client which handles the NPCs in the instance (unless it's an instance with another player in it - there's the chance that the other player's game client will be managing the NPCs).

But you can't hire NPCs. So the PC doesn't handle them.

Yes we can - NPC Pilots for SLFs (or taking the helm of the mother-ship when the player piloting the SLF).

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Increasing staff number for their new IP as I have already stated. As I said, I fully expect planet coaster and planet safari dev teams to be working very closely together as the tools they have created for PC will be very similar for PS.

As stated, ED is a completely different game with a different tool set etc, etc. I'm sure there will be some crossover though. But what you are saying is till complete speculation without any kind of proof.

Please provide some proof as you have provided a grand total of zero at the moment, and then I will take what you say seriously.

It's not a completely different game with a different tool set. The tool set is the engine, the engine is modular, they pull parts out and plug them back in as needed. It's all one big toolbox.

Features in ED directly translate to Planet Coaster, and features in Planet Coaster directly translate to ED. Planet Coaster used a pared down version of the BGS to simulate crowd behavior, for example.

Same tool, applied differently.

Plenty of other examples if you want them but honestly... I just don't care enough to go learn about features in planet coaster to point out the cross-pollination for you.

FDev would be stupid not to recycle features from game to game, it's just common, practical business sense.

I already told you. Google it yourself. I'm not your nanny. I'm just here to amuse myself until the weather clears up enough so that I can go re-roof my retired neighbor's house.