News 2.3 Dev Update
- Thread starter Edward Lewis
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Its a community ruins an update thread. We saw this episode before. I dont want to travel 30 plus minutes to play with my friends. ED is a game not a job you pinheads.
Well spotted!
Gonna have to repeat myself here:
I don't truck with this attitude any more than I do those who insist that everything must be as realistic as possible because immersion is everything.
Both views are wrong. Each is dismissive of the other. Saying "it's just a video game" is like saying it's okay to have our ships transform into ponies, because ponies are fun and fun is all that matters. Just like saying we should wait on a landing pad for every ton of cargo to be loaded from the warehouse and filling our forms is important because it's realistic.
Fun doesn't trump everything because at the end of the day instant gratification becomes stale, and many players appreciate an immersive world for the long term rewards that come with it (including those saying fun trumps all, whether they realize it or not). Likewise going full realism immersion doesn't trump everything either, because at the end of the day filling in EVERY possible detail is dull and boring (including those who claim to enjoy such detail, only to then try to find shortcuts around them when possible).
There's a balance to be sought.
Normally I'm on the side of immersion, but that's largely because I saw it adding to the world and gameplay.
In this case I have yet to see a compelling case for that with multicrew.
I could go on, but I think Obsidian Ant made the best case as to why it's necessary as it is now, and why it may change (or at least have additional options) in the future.
But I will reiterate my belief that the devs should not now, or ever, come up with a game explanation for this. This is strictly a multiplayer game feature, and not something that should be explained in lore. Ever.
Agreed, which is precisely why the function should be tied to having an NPC crew (which players can then "agent smith" themselves into).
I really love the idea of multi crew in elite dangerous, instant transport from one ship to a friends ship makes sense because we can't move around our ships or out side of our ships, but the idea of being able to transport to a friends or another player's ship from anywhere in the galaxy seems to break the core design and game genre of the game, (which is a space sim), the instant transportation from one ship to another seems to be pushing Elite Dangerous towards an action game with space sim elements,
instead of a space sim with action elements.
ways frontier could fix this design problem,
1. keep with the space sim genre, and make it so you can only transport to another player's ship if your in the same station as the other player, and have a filter on the galaxy map that shows where cmdrs are requesting crew members.
2. implement a cmdr's lounge on stations, from here cmdr's can grab a space taxi to the closest station that is requesting crew members, or be transported to the station your friend (that has invited you onto their ship as a crew member) is at.
this kind of station to station transfer would come with a small wait time depending on distance, and have a small fee by the cmdr who is doing the crew invite. the wait time should be 50% faster than modular and ship transport, because cmdrs would be
considered more important.
3. if the cmdr who owns the ship, ejects his player crew members out of his ship, or the crew decides to leave, via the escape pod, then the crew members go back to the cmdr's lounge on the station they last visited, or the station they boarded the ship at. from there they can have their ship transported to the same station their at and continue playing or go find another crew to join.
this feature would be great for new players, or for friends who are new to the game, and want to join up and game in the same area of space their friends play in.
these are just my humble suggestions.
instead of a space sim with action elements.
ways frontier could fix this design problem,
1. keep with the space sim genre, and make it so you can only transport to another player's ship if your in the same station as the other player, and have a filter on the galaxy map that shows where cmdrs are requesting crew members.
2. implement a cmdr's lounge on stations, from here cmdr's can grab a space taxi to the closest station that is requesting crew members, or be transported to the station your friend (that has invited you onto their ship as a crew member) is at.
this kind of station to station transfer would come with a small wait time depending on distance, and have a small fee by the cmdr who is doing the crew invite. the wait time should be 50% faster than modular and ship transport, because cmdrs would be
considered more important.
3. if the cmdr who owns the ship, ejects his player crew members out of his ship, or the crew decides to leave, via the escape pod, then the crew members go back to the cmdr's lounge on the station they last visited, or the station they boarded the ship at. from there they can have their ship transported to the same station their at and continue playing or go find another crew to join.
this feature would be great for new players, or for friends who are new to the game, and want to join up and game in the same area of space their friends play in.
these are just my humble suggestions.
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I agree that there is no viable alternative to instant, and from reading through the threadnaughts, I think that is the general consensus as well. I also agree that no attempt what so ever should be made to explain it, or rationalize it in game. My problems are with the things that happen after the instant transport is complete..360 degree, third person firing view, lower rebuy, extra pips, full payouts, extra firing buttons, crime or credits choice, and so on and so forth...
+1, and spot on.
Its a game not a job.
I waste enough time in ED just flying from A to B to get to missions.
Now community wants to make Multi-crew require other commander to be in same starport when I rarely even see another commander?!
CQC is horrid- I can never get matches to start. FD will use the same black-box code to match me with a crew that I have no idea who they are or what they want to do? And then mandate that I be in the same starport as a stranger to match me with them like CQC?
We need a lobby with a commander rating/review system to block ganking abuse commanders, provide some intelligence behind matchmaking, let me know how likely it is I will actually be able to crew if I want or get a crew if I want. Preferably make all that in a human-friendly format where the power of choice is in each commander's hands.
I should not have to be in the same place as everyone else crewing a ship because the game's galaxy and internet infrastructure and player-base are such that I will never, ever get a match if this is the rule. All the rubes in the UK need to understand the rest of the player base is so dispersed that even seeing another commander is an event, let alone being able to meaningfully interact in-game.
I don't want FD to think we need "realistic toilet modelling and sleep cycles". It's a dang game folks. Yes we want a cool sim that feels grounded in some sort of science realism. But there is nothing at all inherently real about a sci-fi game. And the design choices like an SRV that has jets forcing me to roll over rocks while NPC all have floating skimmers that literally fly over a planet's surface are so glaringly inconsistent that the "realism" and "consistency" crowd should be all over that stuff and leave the bits that might actually let players have fun together alone.
Yeah, requiring them to be in the same port seems very limiting. I do think having an NPC crew in the ship for the function to be made available would be a fair deal though.
Except the skimmers are true drones...there is no place for a pilot in them...unlike the SLF's that are drones, but still have a cockpit... Now an inconsistency would be if the NPC got to have SRV's just like ours that could skim over the surface, or that a crew member has the ability to out out of criminal punishment, a multi crew ship gets extra pips, bounties are up to three times as valuable for a multi crew ship...
ETA: I also don't think there is anything at all to worry about...this WILL be instant, it's not going to change. The majority opinion is in favor of instant by more than the 70-30 for delayed ship transfer, so no need to worry about that...just don't try and explain it.
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I would have expected something different for 2.3 multicrew update :
Since Elite the 1st one, I've seen many space sims and I remember well only 1 with multiplayer features : Starwars Galaxies : Jump to lightspeed. While the playground was tall, the gameplay mechanics were well-engineered ... for this period.
Back to upcoming 2.3 :
Telepresence ?
- Elite Dangerous base gameplay is about travelling through stars, finding a way (often difficult) to make at least one ship capable of long jump.
- What about boarding planned features ? I smell telepresence as a parasite feature for the future ones ...
- That's ok ... if : telepresence have a cost and commanders avatars look like holograms (for immersion purpose)
Now, elite dangerous needs some serious change with multiplayer. Being only 4 in Wings is not a drama (for now). The real drama is about giving opportunities to players in Wings to share profits. Multicrew is an attempt to do so but just for Vouchers and bounties. What about mining, exploration, transportation ... and so on. I saw ALL MY FRIENDS left Elite just because of that and entire groups of 1000 people reduced to 10.
PS : You need to know, those people who left never used forums to make a single post. As always in games ... silent mass moving quietly. I myself post rarely.
Since Elite the 1st one, I've seen many space sims and I remember well only 1 with multiplayer features : Starwars Galaxies : Jump to lightspeed. While the playground was tall, the gameplay mechanics were well-engineered ... for this period.
Back to upcoming 2.3 :
Telepresence ?
- Elite Dangerous base gameplay is about travelling through stars, finding a way (often difficult) to make at least one ship capable of long jump.
- What about boarding planned features ? I smell telepresence as a parasite feature for the future ones ...
- That's ok ... if : telepresence have a cost and commanders avatars look like holograms (for immersion purpose)
Now, elite dangerous needs some serious change with multiplayer. Being only 4 in Wings is not a drama (for now). The real drama is about giving opportunities to players in Wings to share profits. Multicrew is an attempt to do so but just for Vouchers and bounties. What about mining, exploration, transportation ... and so on. I saw ALL MY FRIENDS left Elite just because of that and entire groups of 1000 people reduced to 10.
PS : You need to know, those people who left never used forums to make a single post. As always in games ... silent mass moving quietly. I myself post rarely.
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Actual real-world networking and player availability and latency figure into this. The game should be fun, not overly punishing. FD is a business selling entertainment software. And that software is constrained by actual physics and our daily lives.
"Stupid" could mean more than you think.
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Bunk. Some of the skimmers are really large and have missile batteries. Fighter ships have telepresence. Multi-crew is based on telepresence.
With telepresence a skimmer doesn't need a pilot in the craft, does it?
With telepresence an SRV doesn't need a commander, does it?
Logical follow-thru?
NPC's don't have SRVs at all. They only have skimmers. So why are you saying "if NPC got to have SRV"? That does not exist. Plus SRV is non-sense. When we get Earth with atmosphere and 3300 CE time- are there only going to be cars with wheels? That will look stupid in a futuristic sci-fi game.
I'd totally get behind that. But honestly even if they don't we can just assume we always had the crew and just called them to the bridge.
I feel that the underlying problem with this feature is, with how people were imagining this being implemented, it would seem that the game is not nearly developed enough for a feature like this. But in order to implement it at this time, they had to... make do.
If that's the case, then I guess we can work with what we're given now, and wait and see.
If such a time ever comes...
If that's the case, then I guess we can work with what we're given now, and wait and see.
If such a time ever comes...
I guess. I play from Australia so the multiplayer tie is going to likely be very limited for me. P2P will undoubtedly create all sorts of messes as will "random" crew. I pay for my hired crew already and train them up with the SLFs. Don't see why they can't have other jobs too, especially as they get payed no matter what. Literally it's multicrew and still fdev won't put the active NPC on the copilot seat. I think that's a big mistake. I think they are dropping the ball on an excellent and widely desired mechanic.
Exactly. Flying an anaconda right now feels like the TNG episode "Remember Me" anyway, and how realistic is it to have a single guy run an entire vessel of that size.
Agreed! +1
Good point. Perhaps the bounties could be generated while crewing but labelled as dormant (or legacy) so you don't get insta-killed by a station you return to. I prefer dormant personally, medium to higher difficulty?
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Deleted member 38366
D
It's a "Community trying to prevent a concepting error" Thread.
We indeed saw this episode before and a potentially troubled concept was turned in time into something good. That's what's the feedback is for - to identify and correct issues in time, while there's still time to address it.
If you don't want to travel 30 plus Minutes to play with your friends, get better at planning and coordination!. It's not like neither you nor your Friends have any idea where in the Galaxy you are or logged off.
ED is a Game - but not a Casual Game to pick up during a quick lunch break and insta-travel to insta-meet, do insta-pew and then log off after 15 Minutes. There's hundreds of other Games build around that. E : D is not amongst them.
PS.
The discussion of the issue is completely normal. Noone is a "pinhead" for voicing concerns and opinions.
The key thing is, that a critical component of MultiCrew has been quickly identified as a big issue. That's the whole point of the entire Thread.
Frontier now know they might have to look into that again and possibly seek alternatives that preserve both some realism yet still facilitates Gameplay as intended.
That's really all there is to it. Essentially, the Thread already did its job, the rest is just the typical "Forum fallout".
(And after 113 Pages and pretty much only one single topic, it's fairly clear what needs to be addressed. The rest is up to FDev.)
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