In short, any fail-logic handwavium is ok, if the prose is nice.
Feedback from CMDR creator tool (The i am hologram, lore explanation and its placement on UI)
- Thread starter Thetele
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In short, any fail-logic handwavium is ok, if the prose is nice.
Thank god, a reasonable person! AT LONG LAST, THE LEGENDS WERE TRUE
The keyword here is consistent. If it's consistent then it's much easier to accept. That's why people can enjoy a lord of the rings or marvel superhero movie even though it's all impossible.
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What on earth are you blabbering on about?
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For communication?
Hve you missed any sci fi movie, novel, cartoon, game etc ever that always had a 3d holographic representation of you in communications? Of course it fits. Unless youre still using an old Nokia.
You're thinking like a animated model rather than image capture? It's clear that they used the tech to randomly generate the NPCs. Yea man, this would be nice! Have them convey emotion based on your faction rating...
There's a limit, though. Luke's wasn't shooting TIE fighters with his hologram in the seat.
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or they making an exception for game play reason.
Personally I would have link this to being entirely Guardian technology that for reasons that have yet to be discovered doesn't work with non organic brains and can only be use to transfer human minds. Then our ships just carry clones that people can take over, with Rim Lock suits having a holographic projectors use to project images of what these people look like in their normal bodies.
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There probably won't be any until a later stage, when we have legs.
X-Terminator
Banned
This is just wrong. Time spent on this irrational tool instead of a proper WEBCAM avatar projection. Bad FD, very bad and I am disappointed. This will feel very old hat and under used very fast. Better to use the aging tool over realtime on our actual pics and we get older until we die each time. However the lore has never been written and magic is an excuse for anything lately.
Mega ships.
Obsidian, you can make that Lore argument about anything, though, can't you?
If a player complains the game crashes too much - no problem. Hire Drew, tell him to write some lore about "space travel is sometimes unstable."
Player complains that their load times are significant when leaving SuperCruise.... "Lore says that sometimes the Nav Computer gets confused."
Ad nauseam.
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May be they plan to use it as a future game play feature.
I know I probably dreaming but imagine if we could maintain multiple identities in game and then be able switch between them to do different missions or play factions off against each other. or imagine if we were given fake id for infiltration missions or imagine if we could look like enemy soldier to infiltrate an enemy base.
This makes me very sad. Don't explain this feature unless you're also willing to explain the following:
If we have any distance, instant communication of sufficient bandwidth to transfer a full 3D-model of myself with a full 3D representation of the distant spot back why...
- can't we sell exploration data, turn in bonds etc from anywhere?
- can't we get known nav data from anywhere (i.e instead of dropping out from supercruise and scanning the nav beacon)?
- is there such a thing as "courier" missions? Surely transferring data would be secure if it's secure enough to transfer control of your ship via the method.
- do fighters have a 30 km range?
- Why the do we even fly the ship in-person to begin with - would be much smarter to fly remotely from a nice apartment in Achenar...
- ...and expanding on that, why can't we fly any ship we want rather than having to swap manually?
- ...and even further, why is our crew member in the ship rather than in the station? They can't die if they are in the station.
Basically explaining this feature with a stupid "it's telepresence" explanation completely breaks basically every "game feature" in the game. None of it makes any logical sense when we have unlimited bandwith, instantaneous transmission available.
So in the five years its going to take FD to implement that were all going to suffer the pop up of whats its called halo me..sorry that name makes me cringe, every time we skip through the right panel too fast
That was my point, the amount of times I hit the view engineers tab because Im trying to get something on the right panel and have hit it by mistake then you get it full on in your face.
I'm not knocking the work or the effort put into this, but its implementation and its over all what feels to me cheapness. We've had weeks of snippets about an incoming character creator and then we get this..its very good but why isn't it something that we are presented with when you first open the game, as it is or going on what we have seen, a new player wont see this or even know what it is until there are in their ship and then see a tab on the right panel called ..i'm sorry I just cant cal it that.
Why is it on my right panel and not a main game option, its not something most people will be using on a regular basis, if I wanted a mini game of lets play make a character i would be playing sims.
Character creation for me is a big part of a game that has it, it was/is something that is meant to define you in the game world, now we seem to have something slapped into the UI for what ever reason, and were able to change how we look if we so wish at the drop of a hat, not arguing that point if people want to spend 20 minutes of their daily game time putting on a new look then good for them.
I will make lovette once I might spend several hours doing it depending on just how in depth the tool is but once done it's something I tend to stick with or maybe change once in a blue moon, SWKOTOR, has a image booth where you can pay to change your look in the 6 odd years i've been playing and out of the 18 characters I have think i've used it once on one of them.
I thought FD were giving us a character creator which I guess they have, then they do what they do best and shot themselves in the foot by making it look cheap with bad implementation and almost throw away feeling to it all. I do hope beta changes my view on this, it looks great and im looking forward to making Lok whole but once is all i need via the main options menu not in game Ui.
Well ED lore has been inconsistent since day 1 (well it would have been if the voice function actually worked before 1.1 - at least that is how it was for me). We have been able to insta-communicate since day 1. FD glossed over it at the time but the debate about insta-communication took place back then as well. Very much along the same lines.
In Drew's first ED novel - there is a tele-conference between the Empire and the Federation right before Chapter 1, between different systems - so there is some basis for instant communication, at least from occupied system to system. \you can argue 2.3 just suggests their is a powerful enoough transmitter and reciever on a ship. This is somewhat thwarted by Lave Revolution, and its explanation of how communication in system works. The bounty hunting Novel (Wanted? name escapes me) makes extensive use of holgraph transmitters, for information retrieval/spying on a station.
The lore can certainly support telle-presence, however the rest of the lore, probably does not, trading tools etc - the shape of society would be very different in my view. What are the Pilot's Federation actually putting a bounty on, for example? Ship or Commander, who may or may ot be present in the ship.
I like the character creator. I hate the use of arbitary tele-presence. The more it is introduced the less reason I see for space legs in station or anywhere. Mind you no need to test if bullet hits character, or use of doors, we are jusr an Avatar on the station. Far too dangerous to actually go into the station. Hey SC should nick the idea to explain how you can fall out of the station and your ship through the wall
On another note, I would pay money in the shop for an "H" tattoo to put on my character's forehead.
Gameplay good but rationalisation impossible vearing to crazy talk! I think a player can either live with that or cannot.
Tele-presence = Marmite.
Simon
In Drew's first ED novel - there is a tele-conference between the Empire and the Federation right before Chapter 1, between different systems - so there is some basis for instant communication, at least from occupied system to system. \you can argue 2.3 just suggests their is a powerful enoough transmitter and reciever on a ship. This is somewhat thwarted by Lave Revolution, and its explanation of how communication in system works. The bounty hunting Novel (Wanted? name escapes me) makes extensive use of holgraph transmitters, for information retrieval/spying on a station.
The lore can certainly support telle-presence, however the rest of the lore, probably does not, trading tools etc - the shape of society would be very different in my view. What are the Pilot's Federation actually putting a bounty on, for example? Ship or Commander, who may or may ot be present in the ship.
I like the character creator. I hate the use of arbitary tele-presence. The more it is introduced the less reason I see for space legs in station or anywhere. Mind you no need to test if bullet hits character, or use of doors, we are jusr an Avatar on the station. Far too dangerous to actually go into the station. Hey SC should nick the idea to explain how you can fall out of the station and your ship through the wall
On another note, I would pay money in the shop for an "H" tattoo to put on my character's forehead.
Gameplay good but rationalisation impossible vearing to crazy talk! I think a player can either live with that or cannot.
Tele-presence = Marmite.
Simon
You're wrong, IMHO.
Elite: Dangerous does not have exceptional game mechanics. It has some very strong points here and there, but I dare say there are older space games out there with overall better gameplay. And if you expand the comparison to games of other genres, as invalid that comparison may be, Elite: Dangerous starts ranking lower and lower. Simply put, for the "I just want to have 30 minutes of fun" type of customer, there are lots of other games who will do it better than Elite: Dangerous can.
Of course, this is all my opinion; for all I know, there could be players out there who believe that for example searching for engineering mats is the best thing in the history of video games.
What makes Elite great IMO is the mixture of both gameplay mechanics and world building. The fact that there are little vehicles driving around stations, or commercials in the hangars, even though that does not impact my gameplay in any way. Or that commodities have text associated with them, even though I never read that when I'm just plainly trading. Or NPC names, which I'll never remember even after farming thousands of them in an extraction area.
On the matter of Frontier deciding what the lore of the game should be: you're absolutely right, it's their game and they can do whatever they like. They can drive it into the ground for all I care. We're just here to provide feedback and tell them what we, as customers, like and do not like.
I'm not against instant information transfer. It's how we send instructions for ship delivery, or how we receive those notifications about systems in Boom right before a jump, isn't it? But holograms controlling a ship's system represents an inconsistency with the rest of the lore that I personally know of. I've read some explanations in this thread, but I just can't accept them from a logical standpoint.
I must admit that I am not very involved with Elite's lore. I didn't play the earlier games, I didn't read the books. But unless I'm mistaken, this piece of lore has not been touched much in the current iteration of the game world. Others have said this too in this thread. I don't remember Michael Brookes or David Braben talking about it in the dev diaries.
And I have a feeling that the concept of telepresence is pretty recent in the minds of the rest of the developers too. I don't have exact recollection of the livestream and won't go searching for it now, but wasn't it Edward Lewis with Adam Woods who first introduced the notion right before 2.2?
At least we know HoloMe is brand new. From the mouth of Edward Lewis during the last livestream: "HoloMe! No one has ever heard that before."
Bottom line is that these things were not known to the general public when the game was sold. There might have been mentioned somewhere in the lore before that, or not, it's irrelevant, because the larger audience had no clue they existed. And I personally can say this: if I would have known the lore of this game was indeed riddled with such inconsistencies, I would have probably not bothered buying it.
![[VR] Marrs](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/79/79007.jpg?1634042868){kind=avatar}
Actually, just the opposite is true. What the OP asking for, I believe, is to have no explanation. It's the attempt at explaining the gameplay mechanic as part of the lore that is damaging, not the mechanic itself.
What's frustrating is that these issues are quite simple to resolve. If the commander creator and multicrew were simply accessed from outside the game in the main menu then no explanations would be required.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but lore from games is always riddle with inconsistencies - gameplay over lore drives that. I give a game a break for lore compared to say a Star Wars film. However I am struggling big time with 2.3 as well.
I believe the first concept of tele-presence actually came before 2.0 beta. You do not leave your seat but remotely control your turret. I do not think the term was coined then, but this was the first use of the technology. Its just got bigger distances with each 2.x release!
Simon
Telepresence was first mentioned by Sandro with the ship launched fighters, because we learned that we wouldn't personally be inside them. They're remote controlled. From there it went to holographic commanders who can join other people's ships. Holo Me is a customizable hologram of yourself, then it applies the customization to your "real" character in the seat.
I'll eat you for breakfast, chicken.
I'll eat you for breakfast, chicken.
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1. I am really curious which character editors in a game you know, if you call a creator where you can't affect length of beard "basic". Seriously, show me all those "more than average" creators, because I see games where creation of a character is the main aspect having less advanced editors.
2. Why should be people going to another ship via a lobby explained by lore? Just make it a gameplay necessity that may be erased when space legs arrive, because telepresence and physical holograms don't really make sense.
2. Why should be people going to another ship via a lobby explained by lore? Just make it a gameplay necessity that may be erased when space legs arrive, because telepresence and physical holograms don't really make sense.