I suppose it's better to somewhat overestimate your needs than grossly underestimate your needs - consider the "MMO" that is Star Citizen.
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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I suppose it's better to somewhat overestimate your needs than grossly underestimate your needs - consider the "MMO" that is Star Citizen.
This thread is for discussing Star Citizen, not acting out a crusade against Derek. Considering the evidence of this being a crusade discussed on /r/ds can you just drop this now?
Just another Citizen losing it. When he goes, another will take his place, and the circle of life continues. [smile]
Such a shame that you can't tell the difference between an attack, and a response. Derek's is discussing his methods, in his game, to point out why CIG's methods are doomed.
Responding to, and showing the complete errors in his position is entirely appropriate.
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Nice try, Frosty. I am discussing StarCitizen, and responding to why Derek's position on StarCitzen is weak.
Derek hasn't worked on the StarCitizen code, therefore has no personal insight as to how CIG is doing things. In the past, Ben has offered personal, educated knowledge on how things are done in SC - and even then, Derek has refused to accept the explanation.
His criticisms are based on how HE has done things, and how they did or did not work. He expects the forum population to read his words, and come to a conclusion of, "This guy knows what he's talking about... he's done it. He must be right!"
If Derek chooses to offer his own credentials as a "proof of why something won't work in StarCitzen", then his credentials are a fair point for discussions.
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You didn't show an error in his position, you implied he's bad at determining player bases. It may be true or not true, but either way it's not about Star Citizen. On the other hand, Derek mentioned his methods in his game as an example to illustrate what he was saying about Star Citizen.
Keep it up mate! The more you talk about Derek, the harder the Magic Germans work on the Magic Netcode. Stay tuned for a totally non-scripted somewhat-live demo in 2027!
Yeah let's not be total jerks to the guy
Nonsense lol how successful Derek's games are and how many people are playing them is irrelevant.
We were discussing why thousands of players in an instance is nonsense - about how instances/servers are divided up and why they need to be but rather than discuss that you're interested in trying to rubbish Derek and his games so nobody listens to his opinion.
Discuss Star Citizen. How do you think they're going to manage several orders of magnitude more players per instance than anyone seems to think anyone can?
I said exactly the opposite. I stated that his baseline load was twice the player base, therefore he chose the proper solution.
He appears to believe it is relevant - otherwise, I'm not sure why he posted several paragraphs talking about his methods for creating server architecture.
And he is perfectly free to do that. This is a discussion forum, not a controlled press release. But it's not limited to a one-sided discussion, where one poster can say "This doesn't work. I know this, because I haven't done it", yet no one else can point out the flaw in that logic.
<waves hands>
Magic packets handcrafted by procedurally generated Magic Germans using an algorithmic traffic redirector over "interconnected networks"
Magic packets handcrafted by procedurally generated Magic Germans using an algorithmic traffic redirector over "interconnected networks"
Maybe you can tell us all how it will work?
He's blocked, for that very reason. Thanks for excerpting that.
The joke is on him, seeing as CBT players don't go through Steam and the sessions aren't recorded there.
And the fact that he thinks that gamer clients are needed to test load balancing and other networking metrics, is hilarious at best.
Just ignore him.
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I posted about how we did it, and why their "1000 client instance" is nonsense. He ignored all of that in order to - again - pursue an attack matrix without actually offering any comments on why he thinks I'm wrong.
You'd save yourself a lot of time just reading my comments, instead of the parts that others quote. Just a suggestion.
Where did I say "gamer clients are needed to test load balancing and other networking metrics"? Where did I even imply this?
You should read my posts, if you wish to argue their content. If you were, you'd see I've not made those statements.
Yes, let's get back on topic. You posted how YOU did it, which also shows how you have NOT done it. You might as well explain how you've made a Youtube video on your iPhone, and use that example to explain why no one can shoot a feature film with an IMAX camera.
I've already told you why I think you're wrong; I don't believe you have the technical expertise to do a forensic analysis on code you've never seen.
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Im curious to know, how come at RSI forums Elite thread, people are actually discussing about playing Elite and its features in good manners, but this thread is nothing but bashing of CIG and SC?
Doesnt paint very good picture of Elite community, does it?
Just asking..
In my case it's because I have an opinion about this game and I have an opinion about RSI's game and the opinions are not the same.
*shrugs*
By the way I'm not posting here as some kind of representative of the 'Elite Dangerous community'. I don't have a badge, there's no certificate and if we get spiffy uniforms, nobody has sent me mine. I'm just a bloke expressing an opinion about some computer games. If someone else who posts on the forum of a different computer game about computer games wants to treat everyone who posts on here as being part of some kind of inclusive group which defines us as people in some way I can't stop them, but I can and will point out that they're doing so in error.
Hehe, I am generally aware of the concepts* and to be honest I'd rather that the term "Cloud" was replaced by "Someone Else's Computer" as it sounds a hell of a lot less magical.
The whole 1000+ simultaneous players thing makes no sense unless you can do some very clever peer-to-peer + view distance stuff as network traffic increases exponentially otherwise. Even if they paid for the computing horsepower, connectivity is always the bottleneck. I suppose that you could do other clever things with shuttling people between instances dependent on criteria like location/neighbouring entities/etc but that would be a nightmare to handle without lagging. All of this at a high-tick rate? yeah.. no.
*I received my BSc in Computer Science before the WWW existed (1994!) but ended up going down the corporate IT route so am not really involved in cutting edge stuff. I can still do the maths though!
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Ok, let´s play that game.
It is very convenient, and a bit disingenuous perhaps, to start such a discusion when SC has no published meaningful metrics of this kind, other than the pledge counters obviously. But that is just by the by, and another great example of the most transparent game development ever. One of the most interesting things of SC's bigger fans is how they tend to give for granted some of the most obscure and opaque aspects of the game development in an uniquely ironic way without even realizing it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4qxhep/300k_backers_have_tested_since_scs_20_release/
Thanks to a customer support response to a backer that had asked for a refund not too long ago, we managed to establish an estimation of concurrency levels in the SC PU.
300,000 backers had been online since PU launch and until that note was published last June (probably its busiest period anyways due to the novelty), and they had accumulated 1.5 million hours all together. If you make the maths you will see that the usual concurrency numbers for Star Citizen must have been of around ~300 players give or take for that busiest of periods.
Now, I do not know much about LoD or Derek games, but I can see in your link that one of its busiest periods the Steam count got to past 100+.
As you can surely appreciate the figures in both examples are not precisely too dissimilar and are indeed very much in the same order of magnitude. The fact that you or CIG *think* that at some point in the future, eventually, maybe, perhaps, possibly, those numbers will improve is just, at this time and as of yet, wishful thinking. The fact that CIG´s netcode can not even cope with that is telling. At least LoD's seems to work?
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You're welcome to point out the flaw in the logic explaining why 1000 player instances won't work - you're not welcome to attack the person posting to avoid discussing that logic.
It's really not confusing. Discuss why what he's described doesn't apply to Star Citizen, discuss what the clever trick they're claiming is - these are things about Star Citizen.
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