When do I get my cheque and how much, it's the first I've heard of the UK spending money in Ireland. I might chance VR at the English publics expense.
General / Off-Topic The SNP is wrong. There has been no material change in circumstances.
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When do I get my cheque and how much, it's the first I've heard of the UK spending money in Ireland. I might chance VR at the English publics expense.
The revenue generated in Scotland is given back then some.
Lets not forget the Scotch Parliament also has some revenue generating powers itself.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nd-to-get-billions-of-English-income-tax.html
Around 2% of GDP what's your point?
1. Not your mate
2. Scotland was conquered time and again by the English in the 500 years preceding the union of the crowns followed by the union of the parliaments.
I don't need to check all the wars but the union between England and Scotland wasn't one of conquest it came about owing to Scottish stupidity.
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Forgive me I meant Northern Ireland ya know the British bit
Scotlands performance as part of the UK is poor and Wales is dismal, passed out by Eastern Europe. I have already highlighted same with stats previously. The UK union has had a determental effect on these countries. The facts speak for themselves.
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Crap, it was a toss up between the vive or the rift. I'm shattered.
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Forgive me I meant Northern Ireland ya know the British bit
Crap, it was a toss up between the vive or the rift. I'm shattered.
If you're relying on the British government for it, I've seen your future and it is Google Cardboard. A really old one that someone has sat on.
The revenue generated in Scotland is given back then some.
Lets not forget the Scotch Parliament also has some revenue generating powers itself.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nd-to-get-billions-of-English-income-tax.html
Around 2% of GDP what's your point?
1. Not your mate
2. Scotland was conquered time and again by the English in the 500 years preceding the union of the crowns followed by the union of the parliaments.
I don't need to check all the wars but the union between England and Scotland wasn't one of conquest it came about owing to Scottish stupidity.
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Forgive me I meant Northern Ireland ya know the British bit
1.
Not exactly.
See mate. Scotland collects taxes and has budget.
It is running a deficit like the entire UK.
But you forget something importand about the flow of Money.
If you give me 2000 Euro you collected on taxes.
I give you 2500 Euro Budget.
And then you Pay me 1500 Euro as your share of Military and other Union Services.
You get more Budget than you collect taxes. But lets face it. You aint the reason for the deficit
2.
Erm Mate.
No offense.
But if your a Vassal you have no real options.
If the Lords and Nobility Ruling your Country are English. You cant exactly refuse your Lord.
Or well you can try. We all know how that went.
"Scotch Parliament" has to be deliberate trolling = another bigot for the ignore pile.
says where and what? what you say is just an assumtpion too, because no one of us knows how law will handle that.
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Because joining the EU is not "subjugation" - you've been thoroughly propagandized there. Allow me to prove it to you:
The UK wants to break away from the EU, apparently. The ruling aparatus of the UK called for a referendum. A referendum was held. Now the UK, in spite of all common sense and intelligence, is leaving. The EU has no power to prevent it.
Scotland wants to break from the UK. The government sitting in England said "No." Scotland isn't even allowed an advisory referendum.
Two completely uncomparable entities.
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Not really. Unlike the Brexit the Scottish actually have the perspective to become a part of the single market after they achieved independence. It's a clear plan. Unlike "We're gonna rebuild the commonwealth and create the Empire 2.0 and everybody will give us FTAs because they love us.".
As Scotland was already a part of a member of the EU, it should fulfill the requirements to join.
I agree, that it is very unlikely that Scotland will be able to take over the UKs deal, apart from that the EU has no interest in giving yet another country special terms and conditions, but rejoining the EU after reorganizing their own state and government should be the smallest problem.
As I said above, joining the EU is, unlike much of the utter nonsense that lead to the Brexit, plausible and the first goal an independent Scotland can work towards to.
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up until recently, there was no mechanism too leave the EU. now while i can fully understand the attitude of some of my fellow countrymen wanting Scottish independence, the idea that our independence can exist while part of the EU is just laughable.
Sturgeon is acting like a child, she is threatening to leave home, with no real idea of where she wants to go. if she thinks this tirade will garner more influence with the EU, or London, she is mistaken, all she is currently doing is weakening the UK's position with any Brexit negotiations, which will effect us all, regardless of what side of the border we bide. regardless of what people want, there is nothing that can stop Brexit happening.. anything done will simply delay it, and cause greater uncertainty and instability.
this bickering is the proverbial 'cutting off the nose to spite the face' attitude, and Sturgeon is using the uncertainty as a tool to push a personal agenda. the longer this persists, the more we will 'all' lose out... that's guaranteed! there are no real options here, so folk need to grow up, start being realistic, and make the best out of the situation we find ourselves in, we are all part of the UK, and any so called leaders, unable to accept that, and just get on with it, need a proper kick up the rear!
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I've already said this, probably in this thread, but "you'd not stay in the EU, you'd have to apply!" is a very strange and pointless argument against Scottish independence anyway. It's being used as a tool to persuade people who value EU membership not to vote Yes, because immediate EU membership is not guaranteed. But, with a No vote - well, it's hard Brexit! How is that meant to persuade those people that they ought to be voting No?
*this isn't a positive thing.. that would mean requesting re admittance.. which would be harder as the vote required by other EU members would have to be unanimously in favour.
As part of the UK, when article 50 is triggered, a newly independent Scotland would just as likely need to request re-admittance to the EU, as it would 1st time admittance.. either is still a lengthy process. And until such time as Scotland is independent of the UK, it is in no position to negotiate or discuss joining the EU as an independent country. Even if they could discuss the possibility with EU members, there are still no guarantees that once an official request was submitted, that it would be accepted.. and sorry, i'm just not willing to accept a back-room handshake and the word of a bureaucrat on such an important matter.
there is far more uncertainty for a Scotland that finds itself independent from the UK, hoping for admittance into a struggling EU, than there is in remaining a part of the UK, as it weathers the storm of a Brexit.
also let me add another point..
i don't know anyone who honestly thinks that everything is going to be great, or that we wont have a proper tough time moving forward, regardless. in fact, anyone who thinks that is what most people are thinking, are probably far more naive than the few who maybe do think everything will be rainbows and unicorns.
any salesman will tell you, you have a far greater chance of getting a sale if you know you will, than if you know you wont. sometimes life deals a hand where the only chance for success, is based on simple optimism! with anything other, resulting in failure.
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It's a realistic perspective.
I don't see how scottish independence could go through before the Brexit is done, when you're still part of the UK at that point you've left whether you want or not. If the negotations get extended for several years, maybe it is possible to retain that membership, but I'm not too optimistic for that possibility.
Which shouldn't be a problem, as Scotland voted in favour of remain and declared its will to stay in the EU in the European parliament.
Scotland has already experience with how the EU works. It would be the first time that a country requests re-admittance (depending on your POV), thus you can expect the Scots to already have quite a lot of ties into the EU. The process of joining should take much less time than the process of a country which had no previous ties into the EU.
It is, like the Brexit, a gamble, but one with a much lower risk as the Scots actually have the perspective to get somewhere.
But none of that matters, in terms of it being a tool of Project Fear to persuade people to vote No. Even in a worse case scenario, it would be Yes = maybe difficult EU after a while, No = definitely no EU, starting very soon. How is that meant to persuade somebody who is pro-EU, that they'd be better of voting No to get the best in terms of the EU? It's an utterly stupid argument.
I'm not trying to persuade anybody.
I don't think you're quite understanding me, I'm not saying you are. Those who are opposed to Scottish independence are using that argument, I was pointing out how hilariously nonsensical that is.
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Ah, I think I understand what you meant now.
I'm a bit dense today
Not at all, sorry for the confusion!
Laughable?
What's laughable is the notion that it is possible to be a modern nation enjoying the fruits of international cooperation yet not having any treaties and not working alongside other nations. The drive to leave the EU is, as someone put it....
Scotland has a choice:
1. UK, where it has no real say or voice in how things are done, and is entirely dependent upon a southern neighbour who is actively trying to sabotage its own economy in a misguided attempt to re-live the glories of a bygone era.
2. EU, where it will have more of a say, more autonomy, and will be aligned with the biggest and most prosperous community of free nations on the planet.
The choice is so clear I am wondering why there is a debate at all. And I am English.