Patch Notes Update 2.3 Beta 5 Change Log

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's just "that ship" that I want to fly. Really, it's just because it's so beautiful and ironically I don't care about making money with it; I just want to be able to do different things. If I want to do passenger missions or bounty farming or trade, I can do it all in that ship. I'm not hurting, I mean, I fly a FDL and I've got over 100m liquid, but it's the experience that I want and it takes a lot more than I've got to properly fit one. Honestly, to keep it behind a credit wall that takes grinding to get there, whether you want to grind or not, is just disheartening. I understood it in the beginning because we couldn't have people in Anacondas after a week or even a month of play (unless they are inhuman and have no problem grinding for hours on end), but we're getting close to space legs now. We've got several things to do in-game compared to the beginning, and for FD to still be so protective over reward payouts is disheartening.

I want to play, but every time I think about logging in, I think about what I like doing, and that's PvE combat. Then I think about how long it's going to take to get the ship I want because I don't want to sit in front of my computer all day every day to do it, and then I just get immediately discouraged and stop. I tried enjoying landing on barren, lifeless planets and shooting rocks or collecting garbage. I tried powerplay grinding. I enjoyed the engineers after the nerf and was really happy with it, but then I fit my ship how I wanted and feasibly could at the time, and then I was back to square one: I need more money to do what I want, and it's terribly painful to get there. So I put it off and played other games.

I have a feeling that I'm not the only one.

My advice is have that as a real long term goal, but don't make it your focus. Just focus on doing what you enjoy, it will be roughly the same no matter what ship you are in, and the credits will come in regardless. Don't get hung up about the time it takes the game isn't going anywhere. I only have about 17milion in the bank at the moment. Had some ups and downs. Crashed my ship 200ly away from SAG A etc.

Make it an adventure instead if you can.

Out of curiosity have you actually flown an Anaconda yet, in live or beta?

 

[aDuckOnQuack]

My advice is have that as a real long term goal, but don't make it your focus. Just focus on doing what you enjoy, it will be roughly the same no matter what ship you are in, and the credits will come in regardless. Don't get hung up about the time it takes the game isn't going anywhere. I only have about 17milion in the bank at the moment. Had some ups and downs. Crashed my ship 200ly away from SAG A etc.

Make it an adventure instead if you can.

Out of curiosity have you actually flown an Anaconda yet, in live or beta?

I'm not th guy who you replied to, but he did say that he's been pushing towards the Anaconda since he started, which IS a long term goal. I agree with him, the grind is so bad I do exactly what he does.
I think about playing, then think about the discouraging grind, then go on a different - more rewarding game. Not everyone has the time or the patience to dedicate whole days or evenings to grinding at elite.
I do see your view of "do what you love to do, And don't see it as a grind", but I've been here since release and I've done everything. Last time I 'played' I bought a sidewinder, a rated it, And just smashed into everything on the inside of a station out of pure boredom. The game lacks depth beyond gaining credits for the next thing.

 

[This Forum Sucks]

Who said we are?

You've been arguing for days that earning credits in multicrew is an exploit in the "Petition to revert rank based rewards of bounty vouchers" thread and on this same page you say you hope they get rid of bounty farming. Why would either of those things matter to you if you don't care about credits?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You've been arguing for days that earning credits in multicrew is an exploit in the "Petition to revert rank based rewards of bounty vouchers" thread and on this same page you say you hope they get rid of bounty farming. Why would either of those things matter to you if you don't care about credits?

No. Fdev have said its an exploit. I support their main reason for it. Which is in some ways about learning and progression. Is it perfect, no, and I hope they work on a better system. It's what we have got until then which is better then nothing. It also closes a possible exploit, but not all as it's impossible with the way the game works at the moment.

Please get your facts straight next time.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not th guy who you replied to, but he did say that he's been pushing towards the Anaconda since he started, which IS a long term goal. I agree with him, the grind is so bad I do exactly what he does.
I think about playing, then think about the discouraging grind, then go on a different - more rewarding game. Not everyone has the time or the patience to dedicate whole days or evenings to grinding at elite.
I do see your view of "do what you love to do, And don't see it as a grind", but I've been here since release and I've done everything. Last time I 'played' I bought a sidewinder, a rated it, And just smashed into everything on the inside of a station out of pure boredom. The game lacks depth beyond gaining credits for the next thing.

Then don't grind. Use what you have to enjoy the bits you do enjoy. The anaconda is not going to suddenly make the game better. Combat zones, bounty hunting, trading is still the same no matter what ship you are in.

Get the anaconda when you have the cash, but above all else have fun. If you make the credit grind a priority then you may suffer from burnout.

But that is not my choice. Play how you like.

I haven't been bored once or done any grinding, yes I have very few credits, but I am having loads of fun. To me that is more important then any goal in the game.

 

[This Forum Sucks]

No. Fdev have said its an exploit.

Frontier have said that earning credits in multicrew is an exploit? I must have missed that. Might help if you actually read my posts instead of just assuming I'm saying whatever you find easiest to dismiss.

Please get your facts straight next time.

You mean like the fact that Frontier's "fix" doesn't actually prevent people earning while afk on somebody else's ship? Weird how nobody in favour of the massive nerf to multicrew pay will actually admit this, it's almost as if they're all actually less worried about exploits than they are about what other people are earning.

 

[peppi]

Ah, I see the issue. Why the Anaconda? Why do you need this ship exactly. As for bounty farming, I hope they get rid of it. The sooner the better.

OMG Mr MAX FACTOR

there are multiple goals in the game
and i dont give a rats ...... about trading do you hear me say that the sooner they take that out off the game the better ?
i just wish that people would understand that there are many differant kind of reasons that people play the game

i only play the game because of the fighting aspect i love it
to do that you need to be equiped to be equiped you need credits to get credits you need to play the stupid side of the game Trading and hauling and what ever crap there is
so i was happy with the skimmer and massacre missions do some fighting and gain credits and ranks

with the latest updates my game time has dropped 20 hours p week from 80 to 60 and its still dropping
so yes i think the game is going to be killed and new players have no change to develope and will abandon the game

oh dont forget in the wally-wally system on the b4c there is ED bugspray as extreme rare commodity get it before the 10 of april you are gonna need it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

OMG Mr MAX FACTOR

there are multiple goals in the game
and i dont give a rats ...... about trading do you hear me say that the sooner they take that out off the game the better ?
i just wish that people would understand that there are many differant kind of reasons that people play the game

i only play the game because of the fighting aspect i love it
to do that you need to be equiped to be equiped you need credits to get credits you need to play the stupid side of the game Trading and hauling and what ever crap there is
so i was happy with the skimmer and massacre missions do some fighting and gain credits and ranks

with the latest updates my game time has dropped 20 hours p week from 80 to 60 and its still dropping
so yes i think the game is going to be killed and new players have no change to develope and will abandon the game

oh dont forget in the wally-wally system on the b4c there is ED bugspray as extreme rare commodity get it before the 10 of april you are gonna need it

Wasn't talking to you matey. Was trying to understand someone viewpoint that was all. You know by asking questions. As that is the only way to find out. Why do you have an issue with that.

Also I wasn't asking about getting rid of bounty hunting. I was talking about bounty farming which is just a very poor game mechanic. There would always be places you could do that though such as anarchy systems. But in my view bounty hunting should be mission based.

- - - Updated - - -

Frontier have said that earning credits in multicrew is an exploit? I must have missed that. Might help if you actually read my posts instead of just assuming I'm saying whatever you find easiest to dismiss.


You mean like the fact that Frontier's "fix" doesn't actually prevent people earning while afk on somebody else's ship? Weird how nobody in favour of the massive nerf to multicrew pay will actually admit this, it's almost as if they're all actually less worried about exploits than they are about what other people are earning.

No that is not what they have sid and you know that. What is wrong with you. Have some kind of a problem or something.

 

[Fbs]

i just wish that people would understand that there are many differant kind of reasons that people play the game
i only play the game because of the fighting aspect i love it

I guess that is why you destroyed so many poor CMDRs that just couldn't defend themself... they want to trade and make some credits and you just want to blow off some steam ruining their fun.
I always wondered why some people love bulling others whenever they have the upper hand. "If you don't want me to destroy you, go play solo!". Yep... "If you don't want me to steal your lunch and punch you just change school!", is it not?
I wish instead that some other people understand that they're not playing against bots. This is a MMOG with a lot of things to do... like a big building in which we are forced to live/play together! This is a game, but some of us take it more seriously (and throughly) than others. And some of us feel bad if some random guy treat them wrong for no reason. Not everyone is still in their twenties anymore, we should ALWAYS respect other ways of playing... but I guess for you is just a one way thing, as I saw myself. This is "your game", right Peppi?

 

[vermu]

I hope there will be one more beta before release.

 

[Winterwalker]

You mean like the fact that Frontier's "fix" doesn't actually prevent people earning while afk on somebody else's ship? Weird how nobody in favour of the massive nerf to multicrew pay will actually admit this, it's almost as if they're all actually less worried about exploits than they are about what other people are earning.

I would think the actual fix is more technical and difficult to do. In the short term, reducing the rank payout would 'help' slow down piggy-backing but in the longer term, halting kill payouts if you don't take a role (or eg. no payouts if your fighter isn't launched, gunner not targeting anything for hours on end) would seem doable, but not instantaneously by devs.

 

[Samoth]

My advice is have that as a real long term goal, but don't make it your focus. Just focus on doing what you enjoy, it will be roughly the same no matter what ship you are in, and the credits will come in regardless. Don't get hung up about the time it takes the game isn't going anywhere. I only have about 17milion in the bank at the moment. Had some ups and downs. Crashed my ship 200ly away from SAG A etc.

Make it an adventure instead if you can.

Out of curiosity have you actually flown an Anaconda yet, in live or beta?

No, I haven't flown an Anaconda yet, and it HAS BEEN my long-term goal, since the beginning. I understand what you're saying, that it's best to just have fun; well, that's the problem because it's not fun anymore...hence, the long breaks in playing the game.

I've been playing since release as well, but in order to get the Anaconda it takes grinding, whether we want to admit it or not. You're either grinding in CZs, grinding in RESes, grinding trading, or grinding missions. Saying that you don't have to grind is a true statement; however, it is not true in respect to earning money. In Elite, in order to earn credits, the simple fact of the matter is you. must. grind. The payouts are not big enough to allow you to do this at a reasonable pace, and the reward system is so lopsided that you're forced into either an exploit or pigeonholed into one activity to make enough money for your goal.

You shouldn't be forced to do something you hate doing just to get where you want to go in the game. This is why I maintain that it's not necessarily an issue of there not being enough to do in the game, but rather not enough reward payouts across the board. Sure, we aren't on a schedule and we can take our time with it, but in order to not grind in the game, you have to just fart around in the game aimlessly because as soon as you decide on a goal of some sort, you're forced to grind for it.

If you didn't have to grind in the game, there wouldn't be exploits and FD wouldn't be "fixing" them. I wasn't being facetious in the slightest when I said I would actually pay real money for in-game money just to avoid the terrible grind if they're not going to fix it. 10 bucks per 100m credits? Hell, 20 bucks per 100m credits...take my money. Other players can't loan you the money because for some ridiculous reason you can't send money in-game.

If they're not going to do anything about the grinding, then I'd like to see some sort of player-run banking system mechanic. It would be really cool to take a loan out and offer up other things as collateral if you default on the loan after a certain period of time. This game desperately needs a player-run economy if they're going to keep the paltry reward payouts.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No, I haven't flown an Anaconda yet, and it HAS BEEN my long-term goal, since the beginning. I understand what you're saying, that it's best to just have fun; well, that's the problem because it's not fun anymore...hence, the long breaks in playing the game.

I've been playing since release as well, but in order to get the Anaconda it takes grinding, whether we want to admit it or not. You're either grinding in CZs, grinding in RESes, grinding trading, or grinding missions. Saying that you don't have to grind is a true statement; however, it is not true in respect to earning money. In Elite, in order to earn credits, the simple fact of the matter is you. must. grind. The payouts are not big enough to allow you to do this at a reasonable pace, and the reward system is so lopsided that you're forced into either an exploit or pigeonholed into one activity to make enough money for your goal.

You shouldn't be forced to do something you hate doing just to get where you want to go in the game. This is why I maintain that it's not necessarily an issue of there not being enough to do in the game, but rather not enough reward payouts across the board. Sure, we aren't on a schedule and we can take our time with it, but in order to not grind in the game, you have to just fart around in the game aimlessly because as soon as you decide on a goal of some sort, you're forced to grind for it.

If you didn't have to grind in the game, there wouldn't be exploits and FD wouldn't be "fixing" them.

I do agree there needs to be more fun money making ventures out there. More mission mechanics, maybe very high paying jobs for seriously dangerous encounters etc. Better bounty hunting mechanics. Better combat zones. Hopefully these will come in time, and then it won't feel like a grind and be more fun to make the money you need.

- - - Updated - - -

I would think the actual fix is more technical and difficult to do. In the short term, reducing the rank payout would 'help' slow down piggy-backing but in the longer term, halting kill payouts if you don't take a role (or eg. no payouts if your fighter isn't launched, gunner not targeting anything for hours on end) would seem doable, but not instantaneously by devs.

Exactly this. I don't think its perfect, far from it. I am assuming it is a stop gap until they put something better in. I certainly hope so. There has been one other idea I have seen that could work. Will need a bit more thought put in to it though to get it right.

 

[Samoth]

I do agree there needs to be more fun money making ventures out there. More mission mechanics, maybe very high paying jobs for seriously dangerous encounters etc. Better bounty hunting mechanics. Better combat zones.

Bounty hunting could be AMAZING with payouts. Honestly, I've never heard of a real bounty hunter turn down a contract because there wasn't enough money involved...because there's always a buttload of money offered to hunt someone down.

An Anaconda with a 200 mil credit loadout has a bounty of 250k? Ridiculous. It should be 10 million. Assassination missions send you after an Elite Anaconda with 2 Vipers escorting him, and the payout is 500k credits. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to risk the insurance buyback on my FDL for a measly 500k credits. Hell, I wouldn't do it for 1.5 million, I'll just get into my Asp Explorer, accept a passenger mission for 4 million credits, attach my drool cup underneath my chin, and fly out to a barren rock and back instead.

 

[This Forum Sucks]

I would think the actual fix is more technical and difficult to do. In the short term, reducing the rank payout would 'help' slow down piggy-backing but in the longer term, halting kill payouts if you don't take a role (or eg. no payouts if your fighter isn't launched, gunner not targeting anything for hours on end) would seem doable, but not instantaneously by devs.

Exactly this. I don't think its perfect, far from it. I am assuming it is a stop gap until they put something better in. I certainly hope so. There has been one other idea I have seen that could work. Will need a bit more thought put in to it though to get it right.

If Frontier had actually said it was a stop gap measure until they can implement a real solution that would be one thing, but to act like they're just using it as a stopgap measure when their single post on the matter didn't even mention people going afk is stretching credibility a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

Bounty hunting could be AMAZING with payouts. Honestly, I've never heard of a real bounty hunter turn down a contract because there wasn't enough money involved...because there's always a buttload of money offered to hunt someone down.

An Anaconda with a 200 mil credit loadout has a bounty of 250k? Ridiculous. It should be 10 million. Assassination missions send you after an Elite Anaconda with 2 Vipers escorting him, and the payout is 500k credits. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to risk the insurance buyback on my FDL for a measly 500k credits. Hell, I wouldn't do it for 1.5 million, I'll just get into my Asp Explorer, accept a passenger mission for 4 million credits, attach my drool cup underneath my chin, and fly out to a barren rock and back instead.

Yeah, the fact that bonuty hunting incomes are really low and flatline really early compared to the ever rising cost of ships and equipment is a major part of why this is such an outrageous change. Everybody is super focused on "what if a harmless beginner joins an elite anaconda?" is because that's like, the single case where multicrew payouts seem excessive - because to a harmless guy in a sidewinder, 200k is a lot of money. To anyone who's reached the mid game (such as it is) it's a drop in the ocean. Multicrew is going to be nothing but a quickly discarded novelty to anyone who's staring down the barrel of twenty million plus for their next ship or module, especially when you consider that they could be earning twenty or thirty times as much for killing the exact same ships at the exact same rate in a regular wing.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Bounty hunting could be AMAZING with payouts. Honestly, I've never heard of a real bounty hunter turn down a contract because there wasn't enough money involved...because there's always a buttload of money offered to hunt someone down.

An Anaconda with a 200 mil credit loadout has a bounty of 250k? Ridiculous. It should be 10 million. Assassination missions send you after an Elite Anaconda with 2 Vipers escorting him, and the payout is 500k credits. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to risk the insurance buyback on my FDL for a measly 500k credits. Hell, I wouldn't do it for 1.5 million, I'll just get into my Asp Explorer, accept a passenger mission for 4 million credits, attach my drool cup underneath my chin, and fly out to a barren rock and back instead.

I agree completely. I would much prefer if they got rid of the res sites (they just don't make sense). Have a a list of contracts available from the security contact, some reasonably easy, some medium, some tough and some stupidly hard (maybe having a wing or multiicrew as an advisory in the contract), obviously the reward would be dependent on what contract you went for.
Maybe have a rep system with the security contact as well, the better the rep, the better the job they will trust you with (not sure on this though as some may think it as an extra grind).

And you actually have to hunt them down.

You can of course bounty farm in Anarchy systems, but you would need a Kill Warrant Scanner (actually have some use for them now), but it would be dangerous.

 

[Samoth]

I agree completely. I would much prefer if they got rid of the res sites (they just don't make sense). Have a a list of contracts available from the security contact, some reasonably easy, some medium, some tough and some stupidly hard (maybe having a wing or multiicrew as an advisory in the contract), obviously the reward would be dependent on what contract you went for.
Maybe have a rep system with the security contact as well, the better the rep, the better the job they will trust you with (not sure on this though as some may think it as an extra grind).

And you actually have to hunt them down.

You can of course bounty farm in Anarchy systems, but you would need a Kill Warrant Scanner (actually have some use for them now), but it would be dangerous.

Careful, those are good ideas. If FD sees this, they'll just do the opposite.

 

[Winterwalker]

If Frontier had actually said it was a stop gap measure until they can implement a real solution that would be one thing, but to act like they're just using it as a stopgap measure when their single post on the matter didn't even mention people going afk is stretching credibility a bit.

Just need to get used to it. it's not in anyone's long term interest to fuel speculation with Frontier giving much away on what they may or may not be doing, in case some kind of tech difficulty stops them. As a result they only announce on what's ready to release. All we can realistically expect, is to take what they do say on face value, not speculate on what they plan but make constructive suggestions where and how you think things could be improved on the existing build. It's frustrating not to know more in the short term but the only constructive way forward because ED will hopefully be a medium to long term project.

 

[Samoth]

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd have a bounty system like the one described, but I would add something else to it: the possibility for the prey to surrender his or her ship. It would work like this:

Let's say you accept a lucrative bounty contract for 20 million credits. You find the target, pull it out of warp, and engage it. You get the upper hand and on a very rare occasion, the target will offer to surrender the ship if you let him go. However, it will be severely damaged and the cost to bring it out of dry dock will be significant.

So let's say it's an Anaconda. A new Anaconda costs 140 million credits, right? Well, let's say you got lucky and decided to let the bounty go and he gives you his ship, which you find in your hangar the next time you dock. However, with all the damage done to it, it's going to cost a whole helluva lot more than just a simple repair bill, so this could be a way to give players the possibility to have other ships without just grinding for cash. You forfeit the previous owner's cargo and loadout, but you can have the hull for a reduced price, and you can't use it until you "unlock" it after paying for all the repairs. Kinda like how in No Man's Sky you have to repair derelict ships...which is another option for ED. But one thing at a time.

Therefore, instead of saving up 140 million for a new hull, if you luck out and get a rare bounty mission in which the target agrees to surrender his ship to you, you may have to only pay 70 or 80 million to get it out of dry dock and repair it. On the other hand, the mission itself would have to have a very decent payout to force you to choose between the two options, so a 20 or 30 million payout if you kill the target and a significant boost in rank, or a significant loss in standings and the cost of unlocking the ship from your hangar, which would just be explained as repairs, which would vary depending on the value of the ship at the time of engagement, i.e., how well configured the NPC ship is. It could be anywhere between 60 million to 100 million, depending on the NPC loadout. Also, with the higher cost maybe there could be a bonus module added, whereas with the lower cost of repair it would just be the hull.

 

[sebinator]

I agree completely. I would much prefer if they got rid of the res sites (they just don't make sense). Have a a list of contracts available from the security contact, some reasonably easy, some medium, some tough and some stupidly hard (maybe having a wing or multiicrew as an advisory in the contract), obviously the reward would be dependent on what contract you went for.
Maybe have a rep system with the security contact as well, the better the rep, the better the job they will trust you with (not sure on this though as some may think it as an extra grind).

And you actually have to hunt them down.

You can of course bounty farm in Anarchy systems, but you would need a Kill Warrant Scanner (actually have some use for them now), but it would be dangerous.

i agree with the idea, but it doesn't mean they would have to remove the res sites ... why remove an option/choice to us , the more there will be options and choice in the game to whatever to do and where ever we wish , the better it is , it makes the game bigger and more interesting , one day we can just go hunt at some res, another day you go do some missions , David talked about fights and bounty hunting into gaz planets in the middle of electric storms , so it will be another cool environment to go fight , or explore

now i think i missed some info , the massacre missions in conflic zones are about to get nerfed ?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The thing about res sites is they are meant to be (going on the name) areas where mining can be a little more profitable, but where there is a "bit" more risk compared to a random area done as opposed to pirate farming which is what it is now,

I would suggest combat in these areas would more likely be of the variety of a combat ship acting as a chaperone for a miner, probably lower tier ships not really outfitted for the big game and good areas for the inexperienced player to get some lower risk introduction to combat whilst making some money at the same time - both from the trade dividend and from the odd bounty.. The fact that this may be a little boring for the combat ship if there were no pirates would need to be considered - possibly by adding in a way for them to help miners when the area is safe.

logically however

I just dont see WHY wings of anacondas and FGSs and what not would want to be pirating ships in an ice ring, when they could be pirating much more lucrative trade routes... and as it stands now, what idiot miner would mine in a hax res when they could be in a quiet part of the ring and get 70% as much stuff with 1% of the risk?

So yes, I do not think they should remove the RESs but they should make them fit for their purpose.