Welcome back Rolan. You hippy!
The Star Citizen Thread v5
- Thread starter Brett C
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Welcome back Rolan. You hippy!
It showed stuff they didnt even planned out at that time...planing for 3.0 was officially started beginning 2017. The whole gamescom presentation was a huge moneygrab.
Mu77ley
Volunteer Moderator
Put me down for a flashy trailer and ship sale 2 weeks before they quietly fail to release it on the announced date, and eventually come up with a new "roadmap" that adds 3-6 months onto the release date which will then give them enough time to prepare the next flashy trailer and ship sale. Rinse. Repeat.
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Actually thats the only promise he kept so far, treating them the same way he handles publisher. Just like mushrooms, feed them manure and keep them in the dark.
Airtight ladies and gents, refund accepted/processed and paid out last night.
The usual replies from hq but already had written responses ready. Short, to the point and unwavering.
So I'm out, since nov 2012, wow so much has happened since then in my life. Seriously disappointed with how CR is managing this project.
Good luck to those still in it, hope it makes it through to completion, I'll just have no part in it as I don't respect their business model, their communication strategy or their apparent disrespect for backers (some of whome make it easy for them) who funded this mess. CR doesn't deserve my money any more.
This is nowhere near what I signed up for when I initially backed...it's devolved and their progress which CR stated wouldn't be stunted by the creep has clearly blown this project off the grid and put the whole thing in jeopardy.
I firmly believe it will never release as advertised but do think some will make excuses for it (as the continue to do so now).
I'm just a guy with high moral standards, a lot of patience and respect for business ethics. No game will ever save the industry, no game has almost no limits...technically there are reasons for this and using backer money to pay ones self and family members in this "noble adventure" isn't commendable.
It's disrespectful, it's unethical and it should be illegal given standard consumer protection laws.
Just my opinion...will continue to check in from time to time, but the SC chapter of my life is over. What a disapppintment.
The usual replies from hq but already had written responses ready. Short, to the point and unwavering.
So I'm out, since nov 2012, wow so much has happened since then in my life. Seriously disappointed with how CR is managing this project.
Good luck to those still in it, hope it makes it through to completion, I'll just have no part in it as I don't respect their business model, their communication strategy or their apparent disrespect for backers (some of whome make it easy for them) who funded this mess. CR doesn't deserve my money any more.
This is nowhere near what I signed up for when I initially backed...it's devolved and their progress which CR stated wouldn't be stunted by the creep has clearly blown this project off the grid and put the whole thing in jeopardy.
I firmly believe it will never release as advertised but do think some will make excuses for it (as the continue to do so now).
I'm just a guy with high moral standards, a lot of patience and respect for business ethics. No game will ever save the industry, no game has almost no limits...technically there are reasons for this and using backer money to pay ones self and family members in this "noble adventure" isn't commendable.
It's disrespectful, it's unethical and it should be illegal given standard consumer protection laws.
Just my opinion...will continue to check in from time to time, but the SC chapter of my life is over. What a disapppintment.
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Behold every single one of these questions will NOT be answered and a swarm of armchair developers will try to surpass each other in order to score evangelic points. Also notice that these questions are actually good ones and shouldnt pose much of a problem to answer for a developer who has an actual design for this mechanic....well before its even implemented.
He simply cant help himself. Its probably the money because he doesnt really care about the game at all (theres a great video about him trying to play/snicker). Its like he talks BEFORE he thinks so he paints a picture that cannot be painted but due to his ego and extremely scammy structure of this project he cannot go back on his words so he instead delves in even deeper and builds lies and fantasies on top of lies and fantasies. There even might be a mental condition for that if its compulsory behaviour.
He goes very well / hand in hand with all the current super backers and -fans tho which also seem to have a mental condition and MUST throw away money as well as fantasize all day long about possibilities and dont care much if any of these things ever come to fruitition or in their lifetime. Of course after all this time the cracks are fairly easy to see and it requires an "effort" to convince yourself that everything is alright and everything is super.....totally. But these guys already showed their willingness to go the extra mile
So hole found screw really ^^I know I had the exact same feeling because he simply states an opinion without any context or content. I could post "I like ice cream" in this thread and it would be as valuable as THAT post. Its just an effort to show support and "show the haters" I guess. He certainly doesnt have anything to add to the discussion except for "Its just my opinion man".
In the end thats the only valid defense these folks have really. That and arguing semantics. There is not ONE single piece of evidence they can present which would bolster and enforce their position. Everything so far got massively delayed AND doesnt represent what was promised but of course its "work in progress" so just wait and see. Sometimes you have to have pity with them and I remember occasions from kindergarten parties where theres always that one kid which is too stubborn to get along with others, manouvers itserlf into a corner and doesnt know how to get out so it stands there apart, everybody else is laughing about it and its close to crying but cannot come over because that would mean it has "failed" somehow. Only with kids you approach them, take them by their hand and ease them back into the group. Its okay to be wrong you just have to learn how to handle this.
Obviously a lot of people never went to Kindergarten and are still running that loop.
So far, in defense of Star Citizen we have a lot of theories and refactored terms as well as opinions. Thats not so different from other projects at first. When you start up a game development cycle facts are pretty rare to come by and I understand that the community and the public at large have been very understanding for the lack of facts in the beginning. But we started in 2011 and its now halfway through 2017 and there are hardly any facts that would show progress or potential. Of course the dreamweaver is hard at work and continues to churn out fantasy after fantasy to cope with the demand of the masses (ATV mostly by now) but RESULTS well....those are always over the horizon and what we have now is pretty much in the same state as it was years before when it got released. Some minor things got tweaked but it doesnt really resemble the efforts of multiple studios across the world running on millions of dollars of hard cash. I am more reminded of the work of a private modder who brings in some tweaks after he made them in his free time. There are a number of points ultras bring up in order to show progress and success and depending on who writes that list it can become massive because lots of words CR style but put the spotlight on EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points and you realize its just a shadow of the expectation and doesnt resemble or justifies the descriptions we heard from the big man himself in the beginning. We instead see a buggy glitchy FRACTION of a foundation and we know THIS will have to carry the "best damn space simulator ever" somehow. Its just that many people fail to come up with an explanation as to how this will happen...and among them is the developer himself.
Its just that the normal expectation of a project running for all these years claiming to still make millions a month are generally very different to what the project current represents. Normal people expect it to be out of tech-demo status. Normal people expect a full set of design documents which should discuss and control EVERY aspect of the development. Due to the promise of "most open development ever" normal people expect to have an insight into these design documents. Normal people expect the game to have stuff in it that they paid for years ago. Instead whatever there currently is doesnt resemble the promises and statements from years back.
And if normal people ask questions they are instead confronted with the ultras who throw every question back at them and tell them to leave and get lost if they cannot muster the belief to stay on course. Due to the lack of facts that would actually support the project they instead argue semantics and the only thing they PROVE WITHOUT DOUBT is that you simply cannot believe anything that comes out of Chris Roberts mouth. I dont know exactly when development really started because that fact (even tho it should be easy to check for the most open development ever) gets refactored every month or two in order to fit the narrative. I know for a FACT that Star Citizen started to get developed in 2011 and its now april 2017. Make the math yourself and try to stay away from excuses that come to mind immediately in order to explain the glaringly obvious discrepancy between what we were promised and what we have.
Of course backing the project is "just an opinion". Theres nothing there that would actually CONVINCE normal people to part with their money. So this project adresses and welcomes only a specific type of mind and rejects the rest. Problem is that this very special "pool of people" is much much smaller then the normal gamer crowd and I assume they are already running on fumes because of it.
We ll certainly see what the future brings. Its not MY money being burned here and if this thing falls it will have cost me nothing for free entertainment. Tho if it miraculously against all odds succeeds and becomes a smashing success (this IMO on par with the coming of jesus btw) I will gladly hand over a FRACTION of what a current backer invests and will play the same game. From a risk management standpoint I m the winner either way
CiG will not turn me and my money away even if I "hated" on the game before. They already proved beyond doubt that they dont care for words and dont even consider them worth of a reply. Its just the money folks. So I am safe ^^Hows THAT for a bot post?
X:R actually did it. Super buggyvat first but works now.
YOU ARE WRONG!!!! SMITE THE.....errr sorry, my horse bolted for a second there [big grin] But honestly. You must be wrong because CR says that everything they do is groundbreaking and has never been done before. So by that logic I can simply point at you, have a good laugh and shake my head at the poor souls (like you) who are so easily deceived and dont know how to check simple facts (btw...whatever Chris Roberts says = fact)
The X-series is great, but I never got into XR. For the thousend time hearing "Show me your wares" was detrimental to my blood pressure
I hope SC will find a solution which is not repetitive and boring.
Fingers crossed [up]
You know....I dont even can think of a way to break it down even more for these people. Whoever doesnt understand the problem is beyond help really. Sometimes you have to give in and accept that you "cannot win with these people".
ROFL and thank you for your second comment, thank god I gulped my coffee in time. Wouldnt want that stuff on my carpet ^^
Cheers man, happy for ya...seriously. Do you mind telling us how much you were in for? And do you remember a specific occasion that "did it for you" or was it a steady series of disappointments in the end?
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Good for you! I am sure the others who were out and brave enough to share their reasons, would love to hear your story. If nothing else, it will raise the anxiety levels over on /r/DS where, in 140 chars or less, I have the power to make people generate hundreds of comments - about nuthin'.
And yes, it is disrespectful, unethical, and illegal what they're doing. You're not alone in that opinion.
Thats all great,we can also find people out there that prefer to play Space Invaders instead of any new and modern game but that also don´t change the FACT what MAJORITY of gamers wants to play today.You see the problem is that huge number of citizens still "believe"how their game is going to be played,its all in their "heads" but if you check stats and look how many players actually play the REAL/Current SC version you will see that numbers are ridiculously low......Also in hundred of polls where questions touch the current game play mechanics especially FLIGHT Mechanics you will also see that half or even sometimes more then half of the citizens DONT like and are not satisfied with what they can play ATM and yet still majority of them believe that Roberts&CIG will menage somehow to fix&tweak everything sooner or later......
Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
Yo Tippis? I hope you don't mind but I'm going to copy & paste a comment you made over on SA in response to a ridiculous description some ultra white knight made to describe what Star Citizen is currently like.
Because CiG didnt provide us with an aprils joke this year I provide this one with delay....so its very SCish
http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/...2&et_p1=&email64=YmVuaGlnZ3M1M0B5YWhvby5jb20=
http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/...2&et_p1=&email64=YmVuaGlnZ3M1M0B5YWhvby5jb20=
Behold every single one of these questions will NOT be answered and a swarm of armchair developers will try to surpass each other in order to score evangelic points. Also notice that these questions are actually good ones and shouldnt pose much of a problem to answer for a developer who has an actual design for this mechanic....well before its even implemented.
He simply cant help himself. Its probably the money because he doesnt really care about the game at all (theres a great video about him trying to play/snicker). Its like he talks BEFORE he thinks so he paints a picture that cannot be painted but due to his ego and extremely scammy structure of this project he cannot go back on his words so he instead delves in even deeper and builds lies and fantasies on top of lies and fantasies. There even might be a mental condition for that if its compulsory behaviour.
He goes very well / hand in hand with all the current super backers and -fans tho which also seem to have a mental condition and MUST throw away money as well as fantasize all day long about possibilities and dont care much if any of these things ever come to fruitition or in their lifetime. Of course after all this time the cracks are fairly easy to see and it requires an "effort" to convince yourself that everything is alright and everything is super.....totally. But these guys already showed their willingness to go the extra mile
I know I had the exact same feeling because he simply states an opinion without any context or content. I could post "I like ice cream" in this thread and it would be as valuable as THAT post. Its just an effort to show support and "show the haters" I guess. He certainly doesnt have anything to add to the discussion except for "Its just my opinion man".
In the end thats the only valid defense these folks have really. That and arguing semantics. There is not ONE single piece of evidence they can present which would bolster and enforce their position. Everything so far got massively delayed AND doesnt represent what was promised but of course its "work in progress" so just wait and see. Sometimes you have to have pity with them and I remember occasions from kindergarten parties where theres always that one kid which is too stubborn to get along with others, manouvers itserlf into a corner and doesnt know how to get out so it stands there apart, everybody else is laughing about it and its close to crying but cannot come over because that would mean it has "failed" somehow. Only with kids you approach them, take them by their hand and ease them back into the group. Its okay to be wrong you just have to learn how to handle this.
Obviously a lot of people never went to Kindergarten and are still running that loop.
So far, in defense of Star Citizen we have a lot of theories and refactored terms as well as opinions. Thats not so different from other projects at first. When you start up a game development cycle facts are pretty rare to come by and I understand that the community and the public at large have been very understanding for the lack of facts in the beginning. But we started in 2011 and its now halfway through 2017 and there are hardly any facts that would show progress or potential. Of course the dreamweaver is hard at work and continues to churn out fantasy after fantasy to cope with the demand of the masses (ATV mostly by now) but RESULTS well....those are always over the horizon and what we have now is pretty much in the same state as it was years before when it got released. Some minor things got tweaked but it doesnt really resemble the efforts of multiple studios across the world running on millions of dollars of hard cash. I am more reminded of the work of a private modder who brings in some tweaks after he made them in his free time. There are a number of points ultras bring up in order to show progress and success and depending on who writes that list it can become massive because lots of words CR style but put the spotlight on EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points and you realize its just a shadow of the expectation and doesnt resemble or justifies the descriptions we heard from the big man himself in the beginning. We instead see a buggy glitchy FRACTION of a foundation and we know THIS will have to carry the "best damn space simulator ever" somehow. Its just that many people fail to come up with an explanation as to how this will happen...and among them is the developer himself.
Its just that the normal expectation of a project running for all these years claiming to still make millions a month are generally very different to what the project current represents. Normal people expect it to be out of tech-demo status. Normal people expect a full set of design documents which should discuss and control EVERY aspect of the development. Due to the promise of "most open development ever" normal people expect to have an insight into these design documents. Normal people expect the game to have stuff in it that they paid for years ago. Instead whatever there currently is doesnt resemble the promises and statements from years back.
And if normal people ask questions they are instead confronted with the ultras who throw every question back at them and tell them to leave and get lost if they cannot muster the belief to stay on course. Due to the lack of facts that would actually support the project they instead argue semantics and the only thing they PROVE WITHOUT DOUBT is that you simply cannot believe anything that comes out of Chris Roberts mouth. I dont know exactly when development really started because that fact (even tho it should be easy to check for the most open development ever) gets refactored every month or two in order to fit the narrative. I know for a FACT that Star Citizen started to get developed in 2011 and its now april 2017. Make the math yourself and try to stay away from excuses that come to mind immediately in order to explain the glaringly obvious discrepancy between what we were promised and what we have.
Of course backing the project is "just an opinion". Theres nothing there that would actually CONVINCE normal people to part with their money. So this project adresses and welcomes only a specific type of mind and rejects the rest. Problem is that this very special "pool of people" is much much smaller then the normal gamer crowd and I assume they are already running on fumes because of it.
We ll certainly see what the future brings. Its not MY money being burned here and if this thing falls it will have cost me nothing for free entertainment. Tho if it miraculously against all odds succeeds and becomes a smashing success (this IMO on par with the coming of jesus btw) I will gladly hand over a FRACTION of what a current backer invests and will play the same game. From a risk management standpoint I m the winner either way
Hows THAT for a bot post?
YOU ARE WRONG!!!! SMITE THE.....errr sorry, my horse bolted for a second there [big grin] But honestly. You must be wrong because CR says that everything they do is groundbreaking and has never been done before. So by that logic I can simply point at you, have a good laugh and shake my head at the poor souls (like you) who are so easily deceived and dont know how to check simple facts (btw...whatever Chris Roberts says = fact)
Fingers crossed [up]
You know....I dont even can think of a way to break it down even more for these people. Whoever doesnt understand the problem is beyond help really. Sometimes you have to give in and accept that you "cannot win with these people".
ROFL and thank you for your second comment, thank god I gulped my coffee in time. Wouldnt want that stuff on my carpet ^^
Cheers man, happy for ya...seriously. Do you mind telling us how much you were in for? And do you remember a specific occasion that "did it for you" or was it a steady series of disappointments in the end?
Nov 2012-oct 2014: $1038 total (buying up ships)
Early 2015: sold $500 worth of ships to grey market for $1200 (they were throwing money at me).
This was due to poor FM, horas controls and the realization I won't have time to manage so many ships (ED I can barely outfit a single ship given my play time is getting reduced).
The refund was for the remaining $538USD (would have sold but these ships were locked as I shuffled my "fleet" in the past chasing the shiny shiny.
It was a series of events...I gave myself the ultimatum watching the cit con presentation 2016. Having failed to deliver the sq42 vertical slice and CR seemingly desperate attempt to offset that with a complete 3.0 schedule "goal"...made me say "if they can't deliver 3.0 by said date, I will give them until April 1 2017 to deliver something meaningful given their optimistic appraisal of the situation.
They failed; but that ultimatum was inspired by many events of the past, starting with the escapist response. In no order off the top of my head the following.
-CR paying his own game (failing to) holiday livestream
-Bad FM/Hotas with no ability to have a proper discussion about its possible evolution. Current gameplay is here to stay
- ballooned into an "everything MMO" (I don't enjoy mmo's)
- CR on SC hotas "now hotas players can use gimbals: mouse wheels on flight stick...to control gimbals...from someone who apparently "prefers Hotas" (CR is a gamer poser, he doesn't play anything you can tel by how he handles game controllers...fish out of water).
- delta patched
-TOS changed June 2016 (big one that kept me from their forums or DL patches to protect my water TOs rights just in case a day like today came).
I think that's it- no it's not: the constant setting of expectations and then silently bypassing them repeatedly shows a complete lack of respect for backers (Chris Roberts himself). The community is hostile as all hell when any form of concern is uttered.
It's just a poison well for me, so I'm not going to drink from it.
Honestly the excuse echo chamber you see in here often on behalf of CIG is also loopy...although that's for lulz bucket spillage and not a reason for a refund.
I firmly believe having unlimited resources is bad for a project. Limitations are what bring about innovation, not just big dreams. One gets creative when there are constraints. EP 1 vs EP 5 Star Wars saga example.
I think that scratches the surface of it, I gave them loads of chances to rectify the situation. I'm not demanding gamer, I enjoy ED for what it is, I could enjoy SC without the first person almost no limit universe...but I can't condone their business ethics, model or practices.
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All due respect, would rather keep my presence on Reddit secure (diff alias) and don't want to start getting death threats for being a "leaver".
Toxic as all hell community and all. Those guys on r/Ds...I can't even man. I want no part of that even by association (I may get it posting here)...just don't need that in my life. This was a personal choice based on personal sentiment. smaller community here and a different profile
Appreciate your efforts to ensue the rights of backers are up held. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for that.
All due respect, would rather keep my presence on Reddit secure (diff alias) and don't want to start getting death threats for being a "leaver".
Toxic as all hell community and all. Those guys on r/Ds...I can't even man. I want no part of that even by association (I may get it posting here)...just don't need that in my life. This was a personal choice based on personal sentiment. smaller community here and a different profile
Appreciate your efforts to ensue the rights of backers are up held. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for that.
Yeah, there's that. Man, those guys. Are whack.
ps: You're welcome. Honestly, "rights of backers" aside; it all boils down to the simple fact that they chose to make me their bogeyman pariah (which failed spectacularly) just because I dared to stand up and say (loudly) what most sane people were already thinking (and in some places, already saying). They sealed their own fate. And their "enthusiastic" backers didn't do them any favors.
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these are strange times indeed
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/660bn6/feels_like_noone_is_playing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/660bn6/feels_like_noone_is_playing/
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I challenge any of you to try and find a direct link to that "Our Pledge" text in the RSI website main menus.
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If you dont have the link already you wont "find" it. You mean it was removed completely?
edit: Scratches head
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I think he means by visiting the website and finding a link there via one of the dropdowns etc
well I remember very well the time CiG took off the pledge and it caused an outcry in the community. After several days of staying silent on the matter Lando (?) made a post stating that its still there just the official links to it have been cut. I dont remember if he gave a reason for it or if it made sense. Fact is that The pledge exists, you just need to know where to find it. If you are new to the project you will never find it by skimming through their site.....its as if that move is intentional. I m unable to find the discussion but am I surprised at "hiding" something like this? Not in the least.
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
If you dont have the link you wont find it at RSI.
The actual page exists but there is no link at all to it from the RSI website menus. It is just an isolated url that no one will ever get to by just navigating/browsing the RSI site.
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