#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

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Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Jex =TE= said:
git gut? You mean get fat? As in my gut, as in stomach?

What the hewck is "git gut" - oh did you mean Get GOOD? as in, "git gud" - as in the mornonic phrase people use when they don't understand what the argument is? Because "git gud" or "git gut" has nothing to do with being an idiot and playing the game in an even more boring and time consuming way - so saying "git gut" do you mean people should have a more boring time and take 10 times as long to do things? That sounds like an awful game to play....
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A pile of complete and utter nonsense. Arguments like these show nothing but desperation.

It's obvious the OP has zero interest in a conversation. The only desire here is to cause their 'junkies' to cry out, demonstrating the power they have. Ego's gone wild. If those heads continue to swell up, while still stuck in that orifice, it could very well get stuck in.

We, as players, are being exploited by these out of game developers. Why couldn't they just ask for the support of the posters here, rather than take the resources away from those that would have happily supported their requests? Because of: Arrogance. FD didn't respond like they wished. They are too important to fail. after all. So, they extort FD, using our voices.

I for one can't take these guys seriously until they answer: What priority this should take, and what development might be displaced as a result? If they would be successful in getting resources diverted to their cause, where would they come from, and what other features would be move out? Childishly calling for efforts FD never offered is well.... childish.
 

Angry Fish Smell

Angry Fish Smell
Ozric said:
Just because you write something as a suggestion doesn't mean that. You are taking the sites offline to highlight the fact you're not getting what you want and giving a list of what you consider to be reasonable "suggestions" and I'm guessing that if those aren't given then you're just put the sites back up and carry on regardless...?

Perhaps you can answer this, as the suggestions that are made require some major changes to the way things are done at the moment and put the development and wishes of 3rd party providers right up the top of the priority list don't they?
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You're complaining at people who are providing a service for free, and using their spare time for free to try and keep up with FDev's undocumented changes. Them saying "okay FDev, if you want us to continue to provide this FREE SERVICE then throw us a bone" should not be this massive issue...and if they decide to say "FDev can't even do that for us, we're going to stop providing our free time for free dev work" and take down their sites unannounced for good then everyone's in the exact same position they are today. They're at the end of their ropes and I can't blame them.

If someone says "well, I don't see the problem" and wants to provide the same service using FDev's current undocumented toolset then that's for that new someone to deal with. Are you volunteering?
 

Gromit_

Gromit_
If it wasn't for 3rd party sites, I'd have quit long ago, spending hours flying around, which to be fair is easy and boring. These sites are so important. Support them [yesnod]
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Ozric
Kerrash said:
Well that's at least 3 in favour. Would be interesting to see what percentage of the player base is represented ;)
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How many units has the game sold? 2.1 million in January... That's 0.02357142857142857% in this thread :p
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
xondk said:
if a game only is 'fun' because of certain 3rd party tools, then the game to those people simply isn't fun and they should stop playing anyone, no one should play something they don't enjoy.
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absolute nonsense. Did you not read all the posts here? It's hard to keep up tbh I'm falling behind but most people don't have the time to use the god awful in game tools or lack thereof. On top of that, it helps with the RNGineer grind, like massively and RNGineers is probably the worst update they put in other than CQC. It's mapped over 9 million planets and allows people to group up together - that's what I learned by paying attention in this thread - you obviously didn't so can you explain how you think you have a voice in this thread when you don't even know what you're talking about?
 

Shadowdancer

Shadowdancer
There used to be a time when people sat their behinds down and manually copied basic information to websites to help others, and they didn't throw long, ranty hissy-fits when they didn't get that information delivered automatically on a silver platter. Just my 0.02¤.
 

Duane Dibbley

Banned
Duane Dibbley
OP, don't mind Agony & his disingenuous expediency; he is just toeing the 'party' line. [yesnod]

...this clip expresses the sentiments of most of this community! (citation/source: licked finger - put it in the air! 'Happy with that Agony?)

[video=youtube;aB2yqeD0Nus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB2yqeD0Nus[/video]

...& my own personal sentiment:

[video=youtube;hd1ciPnTGKg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd1ciPnTGKg[/video]
 

xyphic

X
First up, I support these third party developers in that they put a lot of time and effort into their tools for little reward. I don't support the timing of this action; I feel it somewhat cynical to coincide with Drew's event, and withdrawing these tools would have a significant impact whenever it was done. I would call upon these developers to delay this action until after the event is complete. This will give the Frontier team time to respond, and is likely to create a bit more goodwill toward their actions.

Redfox said:
So *please* FD, show these guys some love, i.e. some dedicated interaction and some lead time for changes. That's all they're asking for - and that's not a lot, is it?
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I feel that neither the forums nor Discord are good places for Frontier to be interacting with third-party developers. I'd even argue that email is too informal; it's easy for these media to become cluttered with irrelevant chat rather than getting to the point. Salient comments are easily missed, and it requires the developers to spend a large amount of time away from other jobs.

What's really needed is a formal set of API documention and a mechanism for tool developers to report errors and change requests without having to go through normal support (e.g. a private JIRA instance). Unfortunately, these things *do* take a reasonable amount of time to set up. Documentation -- especially for a feature that's considered informal -- takes a lot of effort. Maintaining an active change tracker can be a full-time job.

This action highlights the need for something to change, but don't expect that change to happen immediately. What I'd like to see is Frontier to commit to formal support for their API and provide tools developers with a reasonable timeframe for responses. As long as the responses happen, and the tools developers are patient enough to wait, there's no reason why this can't work a lot better than it does now.
 

J. Calvert (Joshua)

J. Calvert (Joshua)
Agony_Aunt said:
You analogy totally does not match the situation. FD never asked for any help and since the 3rd party devs can't work directly on ED, you can't dig rocks out of their garden.

Let me try.

There is a company who are making a game. The game is lacking some features that some people would like to see in that game. Some people decide to make those features available out of game, and the devs do actually provide a way for those people to get access to certain bits of information from in game, which is rather nice. The devs didn't really make any promises about making things easier or better for the other people, although they talked about it from time to time. They said they would like to... maybe... soon... possibly. But it never really happened. Still, the other people still had their third party stuff and stuff worked. But those people still wanted more help from the devs, and they asked and asked and asked, but never got what they wanted. So, in the end, they pulled down their sites in protest, hoping that it would convince the developers to do what they wanted, knowing full well it would cause an uproar in the community, that pressure from the community would get the developers to do what they wanted.

Well... that's part 1 over. Let's see how part 2 goes eh?

But seems to fit with "Do as we say, or else"... you decide which dictionary word best fits that description.

Unless my little analogy doesn't quite fit in some way.
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IMHO your analogy is missing a few bits. At first the company made an API and the 3rdpdevs build there apps around that. Later on the company gave the 3rdpdevs another tool with the Journal which gave kind of live info of things happening in the game so the 3rdpdevs expanded their apps and were now using info from the API and the Journal. Then some info that was available in the API disappeared. Maybe because the company decided to or maybe because of a bug. But some of the apps didn't function fully nomore because of the missing information that was available in the API but now isn't anymore. So it would be nice if the company would at least tell if the missing info was removed because they decided to remove it (and if would have been nice if they would have told about this decision before removing the info so the apps could be prepared before the removal of the info) or that the missing is caused by a bug and they'll look into it after the game-breaking bugs are fixed.

But I agree a strike like this seems a bit harsh to me.


I'll get my coat...
 
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ElectricZ

ElectricZ
Full support. What the 3P represents are a group of fans who truly love the game using their own time, resources and skills to make it better. All they've asked for in return is for FD's support. "Help us help you," in effect.

What should concern FD, and everyone who uses these tools to enhance their enjoyment of the game is when the 3P community just says screw it and stops fixing their tools and lets them die out.

Once passion dies, it rarely comes back. If these sites die out, the next generation that comes along might not be as dedicated.

Don't gut your golden goose, Frontier.
 
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