The system would have the info, but it may not use it.
Repeated massively overpowered attacks on clean ships are the only 'normal combat' that Sandro mentions.
The definition of massively owerpowered is not clear, but it sounds quite a lot.
Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE
- Thread starter ranje
- Start date
The system would have the info, but it may not use it.
Repeated massively overpowered attacks on clean ships are the only 'normal combat' that Sandro mentions.
The definition of massively owerpowered is not clear, but it sounds quite a lot.
You can't remove Karma with suicides. So the 10 most wanted would be the 10 online players with the WORST KARMA in the game that are currently online. They may or may not have active bounties. But it does seem fitting that killing a player with worst Karma in the game should have some reward. Maybe not a bounty per se, but something noteworthy. Maybe a title, or special marker by your name/ship?
The point of a PVP heat map is to attract PVPers to a specific location, yes this is usually the latest CG etc. That's not actually a problem though. That's compartmentalizing risk in Open, which leaves the rest of the galaxy relatively risk free. If you want to be in an area that has become a PVP hotzone but don't want PVP, then head to Solo or PG. Or fly a ship that can blockade run.
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Has Sandro actually said that? I ask because I don't recall seeing him describe how your karma would go from bad back to neutral, just how it would get worse. Given that he designed the current system, I have to assume that "dying" will also reset your karma.
Griefers would just get their friends to kill them and render the title/marker worthless.
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Good idea in principle, but it would just add to the inconsistent game design, like not being able to view the stock and prices of a stations commodities board without docking but you can see where other commanders are from anywhere in the galaxy etc...
Deleted member 115407
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Going back to the examples I posted earlier, there are plenty of valid reasons why an aggressor might demand his target abandon all of their cargo.
I've been meaning to come surprise attack you, buddy. If we're both on later tonight I'll head your way. Kind of spoils the surprise, but...
Good game design isn't necessarily consistent though. Balance and mechanics working properly has priority over players preoccupation with everything working the same way.
It's a bit odd to suggest that Frontier shouldn't be listening to people who don't play in open when their goal is to attract solo/group players into open. Giving disproportionate weight to the desires of a vocal minority of open players is why they're in this mess in the first place.
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We need to be able to suspend our disbelief. If the designers don't build a consistent universe, it becomes unbelievable and has a negative impact on the experience. This topic has been discussed many times already on these forums. Many people want to see consistent mechanics in the game and find their enjoyment affected by the lack of them. You may not agree with that view, or even think it's petty, but it's as valid a position as any from which to approach ED or any other game.
its the whole point of the karma system, to have it persistent.
and you never die ingame - the pilot federation has youre escape pod equipped with a infinite-range hyperdrive.
It only looks for minor factions as if you have died ( ah, just RtfM...)
Time should be enough.
The time to fly back to said location from an anarchy system. Time to clear your Crimes and increase your Karma.
All of which if the person chooses to pursue will have them doing that instead of blowing up new people or whatnot.
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Well even a D Rated FDL is massivly overpowered compared to an A rated T9. I think it should come down to offensive Engineering effects in the end. Ship type would make it too easy to dodge the fight just by being a trade ship.
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Then there would be no point of a karma system. It would be as toothless and worthless as our current C&P system. Tracking trends over time should not go away at ship destruction. Just because you got killed doesnt mean you wont go right back out and do it again.
Karma should have some work behind increasing it or getting it back to normal. Otherwise there would be no point. Just because you go to prison for a felony assault offense does not mean that when you come out that the offense comes off your record. That sticks with you. Same should apply.
Haven't read the whole thread... But am I the only one to think we wouldn't need a karma thingie if we had a working law & crime system without loopholes or exploits?
It sounds like karma is going to be yet another layer, with its own rules, on top of a core mechanic, that should be reworked of fixed instead. Or did I miss something?
It sounds like karma is going to be yet another layer, with its own rules, on top of a core mechanic, that should be reworked of fixed instead. Or did I miss something?
That's the idea. C&P manages 'legitimate' criminal activity and provides content for people who want to RP as outlaws or bounty hunters. Karma deters behaviour which is undesirable from an out of game point of view, i.e. griefing.
It's necessary to have two separate systems. Trying to use C&P for both would inevitably result in either unfairly punishing those who wish to play as criminals within the spirit of the game, or failing to sufficiently punish/deter those who set out to ruin the game for other people.
if you track karma event over time, i will automatically fade over time by constantly calculating a weighted average for a set intervall.
they could also make it like the merit point decay in powerplay. you accumulate points, that degrade over time. (though, it should not decay as fast as those)
you seem to have missed the whole point...
Yes, you are correct.
Some people are holding out hope that karma is going to be the holy grail of finally getting the gankers removed from the game, while others are convinced that not only will a karma system fail to accomplish that goal, it will also function as a poorly thought out, unwieldy monstrosity of a mechanic that will make PP look like stellar gameplay before being abandoned after making all parties thoroughly unhappy.
A c&p system done thoughtfully will be a plus for everybody; a punitive karma system will just be a fumbling, awful mess that's bound to give the game a black eye.
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I fail to see why two systems are necessary. If C&P was more persistent/less forgiving other time, punishment would remain proportional IMO. I mean, compared to "regular" criminals, griefers are all about mindless killing targeting other CMDRs, are they not? If the law system had more consequences (stations refusing dock requests, trading limited to black markets only, etc), wouldn't it make their life harder? (Do we know what the effects of bad karma will be by the way?)
Of course, there is the collisions inside stations question, but it hardly justifies the introduction of a new system...
C&P systems are typically, linear and provide a consistent in-game penalty for each incident of a crime.
C&P systems in general can never fully address the aspects of player behaviour that the proposed karma system is intended to.
In essence though, it is not a new system per se, but a sub-system of one that is probably intended to supplement/replace the current in-game player behaviour reporting system.
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They could of course set up C&P so that 'in-game' crimes like smuggling/shooting NPCs/piracy etc would never push a player's criminal status to the point where they started to be subject to the serious deterrents designed for griefers. But at that point, isn't it a single system in name only?
There's no clear list of potential punishments, most likely because not even Frontier knows what they will ultimately end up being. The best bet is to read through Sandro's posts in the thread which started this discussion (first one here) and make your own inferences.
The basic idea (by my interpretation) seems to be that it would start off with gradually increasing rebuy and decreasing ability to dock outside of anarchy, then potentially move up to permanent ship/module loss for the worst offenders if those proved ineffective. The possibility of shadow bans was brought up but Sandro emphasised that he wants to keep to in-universe punishments, which I take to mean that adding them later is potentially on the table only as a last resort if all else fails.
Again and as SS said. The Karma system does absolutely nothing but track trends. It determines what kind of player the person is.
The C&P system is separate. The C&P system is where the crimes are laid out in accordance with the severity of the crime and the Punishment system doles out the punishment.
Karma system lets say the person is of a very low karma compared to neutral. Shifted into the bad side quite a ways. Crime system is put in play as the person kills a newbie, Punishment system comes into play the person gets a fine for doing it. Karma system sees that this is a regular activity. Fine is increased above normal and ship rebuy has been increased to 50% ship total cost. Punishment system then doles out the increased fine the guaranteed increased ship buy back cost and flags the player as a unfriendly/wanted in all systems with a security rating. Karma is dropped another level and the the next time said person kills a newbie sidewinder the Karma system wont allow a buyback price and so on and so forth.
That way when someone makes a mistake and some stupid AI flies right through your beam laser that you dont instantly get flagged, killed and other such things.
A crime and punishment system effects everyone in a negative fashion. The Karma system only effects the level of punishment based upon how good or how bad you are RPing. Normal people get normal fines. Griefers get increased fines.
The karma system also does not have to be used soley for the purpose deciding ones fate either. It can give you access to weapons/ship variants, start port types, and systems based upon your karmic level.