FD, I implore you, do not bulldoze over our existing gear and upgrades

Edit: There have been some misunderstandings where I am aiming with this thread. To clarify: I do not want to have to repeat the RNGineer grind. I have no issues with an item reset that also gets rid of RNGineers in the process. But right now the most likely prospect is that new gear will either come in the form of new mods, new items that we have to reapply the the mods we already use on existing gear, or both.
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I am not the only one that fears that the rather vague hints about "new weapons" may either mean more powerful guns, shields etc. than the current ones, higher grade engineer mods than the current ones, or just a special variant of either that specifically works against Thargoids, but is no more powerful against other human ships (or any combination thereof).

I implore you, FD, please do not go down this path. Do not bulldoze over our current gear, invalidating it all with an dreaded MMO style item reset.

There is a way to achieve your goals without invalidating our current gear: new item slots.

While many an MMO likes to add new equipment that replaces existing gear, another common approach is to introduce all new item types that go into all new item slots!

This has many advantages:

  • Existing gear keeps its value, the effort we have put into it is not devalued.
  • The new gear does not compete with existing gear, but adds on top of it.
  • New players do not bypass all the old content and equipment, but face a broader set of things to achieve.
  • It is much easier to keep up the game balance when the old items keep their role intact instead of having to rebalance everything from scratch with new, more powerful gear.
  • Opening up the new slots can be part of (if not the most significant part) of the effort to acquire the new gear.
  • New types of items would naturally lend themselves to new, different types of effects that may not come in the form of damage.
  • It might be a good idea to implement these not as slots on the ship, but slots on existing items, like gem sockets in various RPGs.

I have compiled a few examples what these new items may be, all in the form of add-ons that are equipped into new slots on existing modules:

  • EMP Jammer. The Thargoids have the ability to completely shut down human ships. With this add-on to the power plant, you can withstand their EMP and keep your reactor going, and thus your ship alive. This could either be a passive effect or something you have to activate in the right moment.
  • Bioship Scanner. Thargoids have biological ships that function totally differently from ours. With this add-on to your sensors, we can identify modules and weak spots in the Thargoid ships to attack. (Thargoid ships could even be game-designed so that only those weak spots can be attacked to damage them!)
  • FSD Hypermodulator. While we are not able to utilize the advanced hyperspace technology of the Thargoids, with this add-on to the wake scanner it is possible to fly through a Thargoids hyperspace portal intact.
  • Hyperdiction Countermeasure. A hyperdiction is not instantaneous, and this add-on to the FSD detects it as soon as it starts, and allows you to counter the effect in a manner similar to supercruise interdiction escapes.
  • Meta-Alloys Nanites. Some Thargoid weapons deploy effects similar to how the Unknown Artifacts damage ships and starports. These nanites made out of Meta-Alloys can repair the internal damage caused by these weapons. This is an add-on to the regular AFM unit.
  • Quantum Shield Modulator. Thargoids weapons are actually not much more powerful than human weapons in terms of energy, but utilize new quantum effects only recently discovered through research into Thargoid incidents. This add-on to the shield generator utilizes the same effect to protect against Thargoid weapons, preventing them from simply bypassing our shields.

Some of these items may be easier to achieve because they are very fundamental of mounting any form of resistance (i.e. the EMP Jammer - you can't even think of defending or fleeing if your ship is just shut off) and would thus be easier to acquire, while other gear is more advanced and takes a greater effort (of whatever the new grind may be) to get.

P.S.: Once we have add-on slots on the equipment, it might be a good idea to revisit engineer experimental effects; these could be available also in the form of add-on to put into these slots on your guns, thus allowing you to add the effect to an existing weapon, swap out different add-ons (they would function like modules that you can swap, store, transfer etc. in this regard) etc.
 
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It seems like a rather overcomplicated and superfluous addition to add extra slots just for the extra thargoid related stuff, as just adds extra grind to get them without the actual choice of whether to equip them. Depth comes from meaningful and difficult choices, not everything fitting neatly into specialised slots so that you can still have everything you want.

What we need are complete sidegrades and alternatives, and not simply making them specialised anti-thargoid modules or outright improvements. If they are better, then it's the dreaded reset that is just a kick in the teeth for existing players, while making them anti-Thargoid doesn't add any depth into outfitting as it's simply a question of whether you are fighting Thargoids or humans that determines your loadout rather than a detailed study of the tradeoffs.

That being said, I would be happy to see add-on modules to existing equipment if there was also sufficient variety of non-Thargoid specific upgrades for them, coupled with the Thargoid-related extras offering decent enough benefits against all opponents such that it isn't a simple issue of fighting Thargoids = anti-Thargoid loadout. As stated, such extra slots would also work very nicely for the engineer special effects. However, I could imagine there would be significant backlash from the player base if all these extra add-ons become engineerable themselves as players don't like having to put the effort in to get top-tier stuff (I personally would be completely fine with extra add-ons which can be further modded to double up on engineering for my ships though).
 
I would normally agree 100%, however, the recent widely abused engineer hack has me thinking that a new level of power creep would be just fine. Even in 2017, technology marches inexorably forward, making some old technologies obsolete. It's the way of the world. A perpetually renewing basket of dirty laundry.
 
It seems like a rather overcomplicated and superfluous addition to add extra slots just for the extra thargoid related stuff, as just adds extra grind to get them without the actual choice of whether to equip them. Depth comes from meaningful and difficult choices, not everything fitting neatly into specialised slots so that you can still have everything you want.
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Agreed. Pre-engineers Vulture and FDL - where you couldn't have enough power to A-rate everything. So... Shields, firepower, speed - pick two. It required some thought!

Z...
 
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Although I'd be happy to see the back of the engineers I'd rather keep them than have to deal with your idea. It gives me a headache just reading it. I'm sure it's rather fun in whatever D&D clone you found it in. However simplicity and accessibility has always been a cornerstone in ED. Engineers do not help admittedly but at least they are optional. Well, at the time of writing they are.

Edit : I apologise for my critical tone. You have obviously thought about this and have presented your idea well. :)
 
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Yep. Scrap the old stuff. Just don't do it at Samsung Galaxy/iPhone frequency.

Better stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes less worthy. Tis the law of the land. FD has the chance to kill a bunch of birds with one stone here. I hope they take the shot
 
Yep. Scrap the old stuff. Just don't do it at Samsung Galaxy/iPhone frequency.

Better stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes less worthy. Tis the law of the land. FD has the chance to kill a bunch of birds with one stone here. I hope they take the shot

Absolutely.

Lots of mistakes were made with the current gear.
Out with the old, in with the new. :)
 
please do not go down this path. Do not bulldoze over our current gear, invalidating it all with an dreaded MMO style item reset.

you're working on a lot of assumptions, we haven't seen anything yet and on the other hand what it will be is most likely already laid out. we should wait and see.

don't get me wrong, i'm probably even *more* pessimistic than you, but it's too soon to say.

other than that, getting rid of current engineered god mods would be a good thing and many seem to concur. no, you'll never get your grinding time back, but this shouldn't be an obstacle to improving the game: a straight forward, simple and better balanced combat mechanic will benefit us all doubly: first, because many want proper combat, second because of the sheer amount of time spent on flimsy and contradictory balancing attempts that have made matters just worse. this needs to be sorted out once and for all and left at least in a stable and working state so development can focus on other stuff.
 
I think there is a need of capping a bit the engi mods.

A moderate/sane fix would be use the G5 range as a hard cap to what is possible, no matter what secondaries you roll.

And :

  • Allow to reroll only the special without touching the primary/secondary stats.
  • Allow to reroll only the primary stats without touching the special/secondary stats.
  • Allow to reroll only the seconday stats without touching the special/primary stats.

I.e. lessen the insanity levels by allowing to slowly improve stuff. Rather than roll for all and pray to get Lucky.

Decide to do something about ubershields and the rather useless hull.
 
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I would normally agree 100%, however, the recent widely abused engineer hack has me thinking that a new level of power creep would be just fine. Even in 2017, technology marches inexorably forward, making some old technologies obsolete. It's the way of the world. A perpetually renewing basket of dirty laundry.

Yes but in 2017 you don't have to deliver arbitrary materials to obscure people for them to provide you an object with random properties. You go into a store and buy the stuff.

That said, I would be all for an item reset that eradicates engineers for good and reinstates the pre-2.1 status quo where you just bought your gear with credits. But as it stands there is no reason to assume engineers will go away, and thus any near gear that replaces an existing item means you also have to repeat the engineering on that new item.
 
Bulldoze away. The RNGineers are garbage.

Bulldozing over people's hard spent time is a great way to alienate your community.
I never played WoW but I still understand how many of those players felt when their invested items suddenly became worthless. Apparently item creep is a standard MMO practice judging by how often people rightfully complain about it. Fdev need to be better than that.
 
I would normally agree 100%, however, the recent widely abused engineer hack has me thinking that a new level of power creep would be just fine. Even in 2017, technology marches inexorably forward, making some old technologies obsolete. It's the way of the world. A perpetually renewing basket of dirty laundry.

Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

In the meantime, making all blueprints available by one single g1 mat would at least spread the god rolls.
 
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I would normally agree 100%, however, the recent widely abused engineer hack has me thinking that a new level of power creep would be just fine. Even in 2017, technology marches inexorably forward, making some old technologies obsolete. It's the way of the world. A perpetually renewing basket of dirty laundry.

So because a couple bad apples cheated you want to punish the entire community for their crimes? And use tech acceleration as the excuse? No.
 
Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

So you want to punish everyone for the crimes of a few? No. No. No. This is the wrong way to go about it.

I am under the impression that the people complaining about exploits don't actually PVP. Because out of the dozens of people I fight I have yet to run into anyone I could even suspect of cheating.
 
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