Having heard normal weps are ineffective against Thargs .. my guess (for what it's worth) is Mining Lasers will inherit the earth. (Miners are already the master race after all). Of course mine lasers are ineffective against human ships, so there's a loadout to be considered .. are you fighting FOR humanity or just fighting humanity? No need to bulldoze anything then is my (guess) and good thing because Engineers upgrades are great, in my humble (open playing) opinion.
FD, I implore you, do not bulldoze over our existing gear and upgrades
- Thread starter Mephane
- Start date
Woo hoo! Maybe the mining lance will get some love at last!
@Red Anders, I think the clarification in your second post is helpful because I was seriously wondering how I'd failed to convey, in my post to which you were responding, that we are talking about a lot more than 2% advantages.
Nevertheless let me repeat:
We are talking about extremely rare advantages - yet, which once gained, are permanent - that only a few will ever see without the most horrendous grind, incredible luck or pure exploiting, which are individually capable of massively slanting the outcome of a 20 minute 1v1 in favour of the god roller, and if two or three are present, are likely to be cumulatively overwhelming.
As an outcome that is, from the perspective of a multiplayer game, poor.
As to the process of acquisition, real example: I know of a guy who has done over a thousand g5 dirty drives rolls and has yet to see better than +35%.
I'm actually going to repeat that:
I know of a guy who has done over a thousand g5 dirty drives rolls and has yet to see better than +35%.
Unlucky? Yes. Award winning gameplay? No.
That is pretty much the system trolling the player at that point. Neither the outcomes produced by this extreme chance of a 'spike' roll nor the manner of its (attempted) acquisition deserve to be preserved.
Now this, I could get behind. I'd even be happy for some added Grades, e.g. at Grade 7 you get the equivalent of what is currently a g5 god roll, such as +42% drives on a published maximum of +30%. With a commensurate increase in cost, of course.
That would solve the problem of the guy who made more than a thousand rolls, right there, and would solve the problem of the unpredictable and unbalanced spikes built into the present system.
It would be yet more grind, of course, but a year on and I think we're all starting to feel that predictable, fair, grind is the least of our worries.
This is an idea I also support, but with one caveat: if there are higher and higher grades to be release eventually, they should build on top of each other. I.e., my having a grade 5 mod today should not be meaningless the moment a grade 6 mod becomes added to the game. The most straightforward way for this is to require advancing through each grade one by one. So while I with the grade 5 mod would just have to pay the materials for grade 6 and be at the new maximum, someone who hasn't dabbled in the system before can't just waltz past all of it and go directly to grade 6. It maintains the worth of the earlier investment while still allowing room for that increase in power if the designers are so keen on going this route.
This is actually not a completely new idea, as some games have upgrade systems that work step by step like this, so that you never feel like you got cheated out of your invested play time when the new tier of upgrades arrives, because everything you achieved before was essential for the process of building up towards the new tier.
And now we go back full circle because on my OP I proposed another variant of such a system, i.e. new slots to fill with new items while retaining our existing items so that they keep their value (= our invested time keeps its value).
Or just get rid of the permanency of the Engineering modifications? Let them disappear upon ship destruction. Then we keep resetting and the whole power creep / gear level race is moot.
Might have to adjust some of the costs, get crime-punishment sorted, and allow paths for at least partial recovery of the mats (finding location of wreck/black box, for example).
EDIT: This would also introduce a sort of Iron Man mode to the game, but with your ship rather than your character.
S
Might have to adjust some of the costs, get crime-punishment sorted, and allow paths for at least partial recovery of the mats (finding location of wreck/black box, for example).
EDIT: This would also introduce a sort of Iron Man mode to the game, but with your ship rather than your character.
S
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Or just get rid of the permanency of the Engineering modifications? Let them disappear upon ship destruction. Then we keep resetting and the whole power creep / gear level race is moot.
Might have to adjust some of the costs, get crime-punishment sorted, and allow paths for at least partial recovery of the mats (finding location of wreck/black box, for example).
EDIT: This would also introduce a sort of Iron Man mode to the game, but with your ship rather than your character.
Lame. Bad idea. Only Corvettes and Cutters would PvP or take risky moves against NPCs.
Small ship pilots would NEVER go into fierce battle for fear of losing their modules. We have a big enough problem with people only using god ships as it is
Well. Me and Frank actually.
And cheaters, milking an exploit for all it's worth and keeping quiet about it.
I think that the best idea that I have of Elite is that "Elite" mean "Skill".
The top skillfull players are the Aces or the Elite of the sky.
Now everyone know that engineers has turn the game in the opposite direction.
The laziness of gamedesign or the limits of gamedesigners has grow the RNG system to exponential level. They have leterally filled the game with RNG solution to avoid the development of deep content and fun game mechanics.
I personally feel that the randomness must be eradicated from the ship build process. We must continue to have different weapons, armor, shield, modules all with different effect to allow tattics and differentiation.
But all the values must be the same to reward the skill of the pilot... and not the luck in the dice roll, or the time spent grinding or the bug exploit abuse.
No more randomness in the values of the ships.
No more grind based game content.
Money and reputations are enough to restict the access at everything.
And plz, start to develope something fun. The grinding is nor fun.
The top skillfull players are the Aces or the Elite of the sky.
Now everyone know that engineers has turn the game in the opposite direction.
The laziness of gamedesign or the limits of gamedesigners has grow the RNG system to exponential level. They have leterally filled the game with RNG solution to avoid the development of deep content and fun game mechanics.
I personally feel that the randomness must be eradicated from the ship build process. We must continue to have different weapons, armor, shield, modules all with different effect to allow tattics and differentiation.
But all the values must be the same to reward the skill of the pilot... and not the luck in the dice roll, or the time spent grinding or the bug exploit abuse.
No more randomness in the values of the ships.
No more grind based game content.
Money and reputations are enough to restict the access at everything.
And plz, start to develope something fun. The grinding is nor fun.
It seems to me that the root of the issue are the secondary stats : if so, just dump them, or cap then + restrict them to primary stats.
IMO it really is that simple. Better than than letting this fester.
Well, to be really honest the root of the problem is the questionable design of using RNG instead of an adjustable sliders + budget approach.
But my 0.02$ guess is that FD is not ready to do such a radical change. Though it could make for an hilarious galnet piece : "breaking news, engineers discover scientific method"
IMO it really is that simple. Better than than letting this fester.
Well, to be really honest the root of the problem is the questionable design of using RNG instead of an adjustable sliders + budget approach.
But my 0.02$ guess is that FD is not ready to do such a radical change. Though it could make for an hilarious galnet piece : "breaking news, engineers discover scientific method"
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Everyone and therefore no one cheated. It's a joke on all of us suckers who play by the rules. Even the "good guys" have been defending the "honor" of the usual suspects, which is only further proof that they all did it.
Randomness is inherent in any modern game, or we would always encounter the same things in the same spots. And when the community asked for crafting, the implication was a grind as well (which somehow is short for gathering materials when explained by people who don't seem to care about crafting. Have you played Witcher III? The whole game is a grind in that regard, but must do it right somehow. Unless you hate crafting, then the game is probably boring).
Making Engineered components non-permanent would put some skin in the game for the players that want to take their ships down that way. Actual risk = reward. However, the current system would make destruction too punishing then. I suggested elsewhere to introduce tuning shops at stations that sells ships, where low level modifications could be done for a low price. For modifications that need quantum space wizards, the Engineers could stockpile to a point the mats they need for their work, and sell them to players not wanting to search for them. Weapon special effects could be made into actual modifications rather than random outcomes, and the whole casino look could use an overhaul as I suspect that's what people lash out at when they blanket-hate RNG. And materials could be recoverable upon destruction, as a personalised Black Box Mission - a corpse run to get at least a high percentage of materials (and scanning data) back from the shipwreck where it was destroyed.
But of course many people just wants another MMO arms race towards higher and higher equipment levels, with certain levels unlocking certain instances (raids). It was my impression that Frontier did not want to take ED down that road. We seem to have taken a few steps down it already, though. Unfortunately.
S
Randomness is inherent in any modern game, or we would always encounter the same things in the same spots. And when the community asked for crafting, the implication was a grind as well (which somehow is short for gathering materials when explained by people who don't seem to care about crafting. Have you played Witcher III? The whole game is a grind in that regard, but must do it right somehow. Unless you hate crafting, then the game is probably boring).
Making Engineered components non-permanent would put some skin in the game for the players that want to take their ships down that way. Actual risk = reward. However, the current system would make destruction too punishing then. I suggested elsewhere to introduce tuning shops at stations that sells ships, where low level modifications could be done for a low price. For modifications that need quantum space wizards, the Engineers could stockpile to a point the mats they need for their work, and sell them to players not wanting to search for them. Weapon special effects could be made into actual modifications rather than random outcomes, and the whole casino look could use an overhaul as I suspect that's what people lash out at when they blanket-hate RNG. And materials could be recoverable upon destruction, as a personalised Black Box Mission - a corpse run to get at least a high percentage of materials (and scanning data) back from the shipwreck where it was destroyed.
But of course many people just wants another MMO arms race towards higher and higher equipment levels, with certain levels unlocking certain instances (raids). It was my impression that Frontier did not want to take ED down that road. We seem to have taken a few steps down it already, though. Unfortunately.
You are kidding right? So we are talking to remove engineers to reduce the grind and you want to make the mods resetting with ship destructions? See this is why this game is touching the bottom..... i cant believe Im reading this....
Randomness is inherent in any modern game, or we would always encounter the same things in the same spots. And when the community asked for crafting, the implication was a grind as well (which somehow is short for gathering materials when explained by people who don't seem to care about crafting. Have you played Witcher III? The whole game is a grind in that regard, but must do it right somehow. Unless you hate crafting, then the game is probably boring).
Making Engineered components non-permanent would put some skin in the game for the players that want to take their ships down that way. Actual risk = reward. However, the current system would make destruction too punishing then. I suggested elsewhere to introduce tuning shops at stations that sells ships, where low level modifications could be done for a low price. For modifications that need quantum space wizards, the Engineers could stockpile to a point the mats they need for their work, and sell them to players not wanting to search for them. Weapon special effects could be made into actual modifications rather than random outcomes, and the whole casino look could use an overhaul as I suspect that's what people lash out at when they blanket-hate RNG. And materials could be recoverable upon destruction, as a personalised Black Box Mission - a corpse run to get at least a high percentage of materials (and scanning data) back from the shipwreck where it was destroyed.
But of course many people just wants another MMO arms race towards higher and higher equipment levels, with certain levels unlocking certain instances (raids). It was my impression that Frontier did not want to take ED down that road. We seem to have taken a few steps down it already, though. Unfortunately.
I'm talking about eradicate the grind (that is not fun) and bring back the skill of the pilot... and you are able to throw out a solution that is even worse. A non-permanent modifications.... that require even more grind and that has all the same problems.
Probably FD will hire you after this. It's in line whit the game philosofy
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They are welcome to try! I'm expensive, and far away from Cambridge UK.
However, I think you misunderstand slightly: The grind will always be there if you consider any sort of gathering a grind. However, keeping all modifications permanent just moves the goal-post for what is needed to stay competitive. Which means that skill only really comes into play when everybody is on equal footing when similar ships are facing off.
Making Engineer modifications disappear upon destruction will remove this consequence overall. However, non-permanency should be countered with cheaper modifications and the possibility for recovering some of the lost material.
S
* Randomness as in terms of your encounters (whether a pirate comes to interdict you on a trade run, and what kind of pirate), is all fine. Randomness that decides whether one players has a god roll while you go through the treadmill a hundred times and still end up below even the nominal maximum on the slider is terrible.
* When I heard of looting and crafting, I assumed we would be able to craft modules or even entire ships as an alternative to buying with credits. Not grind for RNG USS spawns where RNG material drops to throw into a lottery with RNG stats that ultimately just leads to needless power creep.
No, this indeed half speculation, half proposal. I know this may seem futile, but I can't just sit here silently waiting for more details of 2.4 to emerge, only to end up with precisely one of the scenario I fear, and no knowledge whether speaking up further against such scenarios might have changed the outcome.
And to repeat, I would be all for an item reset that eradicates RNGineers (or at least the random element) entirely. But new items that you just have to RNGineer again? No thank you. New upgrades to supersede the current ones? No thank you.