Does the AI cheat or was this a bug?

[peteuplink]

I just got into a fight with a competent AI Viper. I'm in a Cobra MK III and I encountered the Viper at a wreck site. He scanned me looking to see if I had any cargo, then set about attacking me. So I deployed hardpoints and started shooting back.

I managed to strip his shields pretty quickly and got his hull down to 2%... This is when he suddenly hit me with a weapon that stripped my shields with one shot, knocked out my weapons with another and destroyed me with the third...

Is it a bug, or is it a normal tactic?

Also, if he had that kind of weaponry, why not use it from the start.

And... if he only had 2% hull, how come he had enough working systems to even use a weapon that powerful in the first place? Surely he would be suffering major system damage?

 

[VonBlade]

The AI don't play by the same rules that govern us.

I've never understood why developers do that. Surely it's more difficult to write a whole new set of rules than just point their ability code to the player ones.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

AI do odd things, but generally cheating isn't one of them.

With the exception of infinite ammo in certain weapons. This is to prevent them running out and becoming useless in CZs. Lol

Some AI either run, or fight harder as their hull drops. It's Semi-Realistic. But they don't usually pull out a super weapon. Lol

Without a video it's hard to guess what happened. Bug, glitch, poor flying (no offence).

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[UnhappyDev]

I managed to strip his shields pretty quickly and got his hull down to 2%... This is when he suddenly hit me with a weapon that stripped my shields with one shot, knocked out my weapons with another and destroyed me with the third...

Competent NPC, destroyed you from full shields in 3 shots? I'll go with bug. Any idea what weapon he attacked you with?

The AI don't play by the same rules that govern us.

*sighs* I'm a pretty good chess player you know. I regularly get *massacred* by chess computers e.g. StockFish. Stockfish doesn't cheat, it just makes very good use of its thrusters.

 

[peteuplink]

I've been playing since beta and this is the first time I've ever encountered something like this.

I admit I don't play with an enigneered ship (I think engineers is a big waste of time and shouldn't have ever been added to the game). But, even so, I had the guy down the 2% hull... Next thing I know he suddenly starts flying like a fighter ace and kills me in three shots...

 

[peteuplink]

Competent NPC, destroyed you from full shields in 3 shots? I'll go with bug. Any idea what weapon he attacked you with?

Sorry, I'm not actually sure. It looked like some sort of projectile weapon.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Sorry, I'm not actually sure. It looked like some sort of projectile weapon.

If it wasn't colourful, it was a cannon. Those hurt if you lose shields.

If it was colourful, it was a PA. Those just hurt.
Although, 3 shots wouldn't kill you from either.

Put it down to a networking issue. Maybe some sort of lag kill.
I've been PA'd from a FDS once. While I was still behind it.

Engineering isn't the big waste of time it used to be.
With minimal effort, you can get quite a lot out of it. Grinding it is entirely optional. Except for unlocking some of the Engineers, they can be sadistic.

Anyhoo, what are you running on you Cobra MkIII? You probably know how to set one up since you've been around since beta. But we love to be nosey.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[CptXabaras]

I just got into a fight with a competent AI Viper. I'm in a Cobra MK III and I encountered the Viper at a wreck site. He scanned me looking to see if I had any cargo, then set about attacking me. So I deployed hardpoints and started shooting back.

I managed to strip his shields pretty quickly and got his hull down to 2%... This is when he suddenly hit me with a weapon that stripped my shields with one shot, knocked out my weapons with another and destroyed me with the third...

Is it a bug, or is it a normal tactic?

Also, if he had that kind of weaponry, why not use it from the start.

And... if he only had 2% hull, how come he had enough working systems to even use a weapon that powerful in the first place? Surely he would be suffering major system damage?

Did you hit a skimmer by chance, without realizing it?

 

[Nazdakka]

Collision damage with some object sounds like the most likely candidate to me.

 

[Blackcompany]

The AI don't play by the same rules that govern us.

I've never understood why developers do that. Surely it's more difficult to write a whole new set of rules than just point their ability code to the player ones.

Agreed.

They can turn any ship like it's an A rated Cobra/Courier, have near 100% accuracy with rails, often out to a 30° cone, don't use ammo for anything, don't suffer heat from restores and are immune to silent mode (why does this exist again?)

It's extremely frustrating.

 

[Lightspeed]

Yet they do hold back sometimes in space, until it seems as if a "desperate switch" gets flicked, then they come at you with the (for example) plasma weapon that you knew they had but didn't use. Suddenly they realise you "put up a good fight."

 

[VonBlade]

*sighs* I'm a pretty good chess player you know. I regularly get *massacred* by chess computers e.g. StockFish. Stockfish doesn't cheat, it just makes very good use of its thrusters.

*sighs*
But they don't suffer from heat at all, whether in damage or firing terms. They aren't affected by silent running. They have infinite ammo.

That is cheating. No matter how you wish to defend it, it's cheating. Komodo is much better than Stockfish, although Rybka plays the most realistic games.

 

[peteuplink]

Did you hit a skimmer by chance, without realizing it?

No. I was in space in a USS that contained a wrecked ship. The AI appeared shortly after I entered. There was nobody else around and we'd wandered out of the debris during the battle.

 

[Ian Skippy]

*sighs*
But they don't suffer from heat at all, whether in damage or firing terms. They aren't affected by silent running. They have infinite ammo.

*sigh*
They do suffer from heat (though they typically have lower shield strength than cmdrs and as such use weaker SCBs), they use heat sinks which can run out and apart from MC ammo everything can run out with NPCs.

And... if he only had 2% hull, how come he had enough working systems to even use a weapon that powerful in the first place?

Not really, depends on weapons used. Fight against an NPC and check his modules when he is almost destroyed: often you'll see little module damage.
Anyway, if you dont know what weapon it was, how did it look? Any color? Specific sounds?

 

[Blackcompany]

Competent NPC, destroyed you from full shields in 3 shots? I'll go with bug. Any idea what weapon he attacked you with?



*sighs* I'm a pretty good chess player you know. I regularly get *massacred* by chess computers e.g. StockFish. Stockfish doesn't cheat, it just makes very good use of its thrusters.

Comparing AI ships to a chess computer is misleading.

Chess computers are designed to simulate professional level play. The highest tier of opponent.

An AI ship labeled as Competent SHOULD make mistakes. Should NOT always fly as if fully A rated. Should struggle with complex maneuvers.

Rebecca acts as if getting AI as close to perfect as possible is good programming. It's not. Getting the AI as close to a human of commiserate rating as possible - replete with the flaws, mistakes and struggles they suffer - would be good programming.

Flying against AI needs to feel like flying against flawed, imperfect, in universe human pilots, not a flawless chess computer with the equivalent of 1500 years experience playing the game.

 

[Jukelo]

The AI don't play by the same rules that govern us.

I've never understood why developers do that. Surely it's more difficult to write a whole new set of rules than just point their ability code to the player ones.

*sighs*
But they don't suffer from heat at all, whether in damage or firing terms. They aren't affected by silent running. They have infinite ammo.

That is cheating. No matter how you wish to defend it, it's cheating. Komodo is much better than Stockfish, although Rybka plays the most realistic games.

You're completely off topic. If the OP was really killed in three shots by a competent Viper in his Cobra, he experienced a bug. More likely than not he's simply falling victim to a fair bit of distorted memory.

The aspects in which NPCs play by different rules (badly thought out spawn rules wrt persistance, infinite MC ammo, slightly unrealistic accuracy with rails and spider senses) have nothing to do with what the OP described. NPCs just don't suddenly become murder machines when you take them down to 2%.

 

[UnhappyDev]

Comparing AI ships to a chess computer is misleading.

Chess computers are designed to simulate professional level play. The highest tier of opponent.

An AI ship labeled as Competent SHOULD make mistakes.

Still with us BlackCompany?

Competent NPCs make plenty of mistakes and are easily destroyed, heck Elite level NPCs make plenty of mistakes e.g. an Elite level Anaconda will simply fly towards a more heavily shielded opponent while getting shot to pieces.

The chess computer analogy is fine. Chess computers have configurable difficulty e.g. easy, normal, grandmaster. NPC levels are no different e.g. novice, competent, elite.

 

[peteuplink]

NPCs just don't suddenly become murder machines when you take them down to 2%.

Admittedly, this is the first one I've ever encountered that's behaved like this. I actually got to a point where I was wondering if I was fighting against a player instead of an AI because it was a damned good pilot. But only after it hit 2% shields and activated it's super weapon. Up until that point the fight was pretty one sided and I was pretty sure I'd destroy him easily.

The fight litterally went from me talking him to school, to me not being able to hit him because he suddenly engaged some wicked flying skills, then he killed me. It was almost like he suddenly jumped several combat ranks.

It was very odd... I wish I'd recorded it.

 

[yolomcbobbinz]

A thargoid in disguise!!!

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I've had some fights where I've fired everything I've got an something daft like a Viper IV, stripped it's shields, and reduced it to 30% hull in about 15 seconds.
Then, still firing everything I've got at it, it takes another 60 seconds to finish off. Lol

Happens alot, but I've never understood it. I just assumed the NPC's went in to survival mode. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead