Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 10 - The Canonn

[Jmanis]

Not only the Scavangers, we have UA, UP and UL causing corrosive damage.
I think it's rather clear what type of damage the Thargoids will do to our ships: Electromagnetic (shutting down our ships and systems), and Corrosive
That's why the Farraguts could do nothing to avoid it: they where shut down first, then "greengooed"

I preview some anti-EMP module to counter this: there was one of the new modules showed at lavecon, that could fit well with this...

It's always going to irritate me that this was my first CG submission to collect unknown artefacts and, hopefully, get a rare good available at Sitakapa that was a form of "EMP Battle Weapon". This was back in 12th May 2015, but got rejected in Jan 2016 for being too close to what was the upcoming "Ishmael Palin issues request for meta-alloys" CG. It could've been for being too close to story elements, but that never got mentioned at the time. Not irritating because it got rejected, I totally understand that, but because, well, I seem pretty bang-on the money over two years ago that this tech could have EMP-like qualities.

I'm considering writing up a CG to gather all these new unknown technologies from the wreck sites, but I'm unsure whether to spin it as something better worded than my last CG, since I've learned a few things since then, or just as "Some arbitrary person wants this stuff because why not" with a bent like this guy, just to guarantee it won't come anywhere near story developments... but then it'll feel pretty meaningless*.

If UA's were discovered in our world right now, you can be certain various government militaries would be looking to research them and get an edge over their enemies, or even their allies... but that hasn't happened in ED yet. Maybe it has behind closed doors with INRA, the Feds or whoever, but that just feels a bit hand-of-god-like.

* Sure, players have minimal ability to impact the story, and while SEF's last CG just changed the economy and skin of an outpost from mining to military, it was symbolically significant for out group who play as a visage of hard-line Imperial loyalists with an isolationist bent to be fortifying their system in these times.

 

[Nagual]

Is it normal to find unknown artifacts just floating in space ?

Yes, although it tends to be within a certain range of Merope. Where did you find one?

 

[Painbeaver]

This is not over yet

Mel 22 Sector DG-O C6-0 2 A
15.4
-12.5

Active. Cannon reported.

Data was from Site 14:

Spoiler

HHL HHL LHL | LLL LLH LHH
001 001 101 | 111 110 100
77 | 500
0.154

HHL HHL | HLL LLL HLH
001 001 | 011 111 00
9 | 250
0.036

HHL LLH HHL LHL | HHL LLL LHL HHH
001 110 001 101 | 001 111 101 000
909 | 1000
0.909

(0.154, 0.036, 0.909) => Mel 22 Sector YU-F b11-1 (Average error 0.020 %) 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LHH LHH | HLL LLL HLH
100 100 | 011 111 010
44 | 250
0.144

HHL HLL | HLL LLL HLH
001 011 | 011 111 010
11 | 250
0.044

HHL LLH HHL LHL | HHL LLL LHL HHH
001 110 001 101 | 001 111 101 000
909 | 1000
0.909

(0.144, 0.044, 0.909) => Mel 22 Sector UT-R c4-4 (Average error 0.131 %) 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
HHL HHL LLL | LLL LLH LHH
001 001 111 | 111 110 100
79 | 500 
0.158

HHL LHL | HLL LLL HLH 
001 101 | 011 111 010
13 | 250
0.052

HHL HHL | HHL HLH 
001 001 | 001 010
9 | 10
0.9

(0.158, 0.052, 0.9) => Mel 22 Sector DG-O c6-0 (Average error 0.023 %)

 

[Aldaris]

And yet many people are hypothesising that the Alien ships are perhaps Organic in nature, that they are being grown. If it's okay for these organic ships to exist in the deep dark of space it is within the realms of possibility that something else might too. Plus I'm having a hard time understanding the fact that all our so far ideas as to what can be and can't be is based on Human Tech. Seriously let that sink in for a moment. Braben has gone out of his way to mention that Aliens should be totally Alien in everything. Their culture, their desires, their tech, everything.

The existence of the ship actually counters your point though. It is clearly far more complex than a microganism. The hull could be organic but not alive in of itself, sort of like the outer layer of our skin, which prevents all the problems we're talking about. That outer hull layer doesn't have to worry as much about temperature extremes, or radiation, or energy, because it isn't alive. At that point, it is effectively precisely the same as our hulls.

It isn't even beyond the realms of possibility that the entire hull is alive, but in order to do that it has to be supported by complex systems in order to remain alive. Microorganisms by definition are not complex. They have to be fully functional just by themselves.

We get that it's utterly alien tech, but regardless of how alien something is, there's still basic principles it has to follow if it's some kind of bacterial or fungal life form in the attack. That is it requires energy and substances to grow, as well as resisting the effects of its environment.

Now, resisting the combined effects of space is not impossible, but there's significant issues with both energy and substances. Energy can obviously be gained from suns, but that won't always be the right energy output. Too weak, too strong, wrong frequency. Maybe you're in the shadow of a planet. You could get energy from chemical reactions, but you run into the substance issue. Space is empty of substances. And while you bring up the issue of elements for plants, they require a massive range in order to function. That wide range just isn't present on hulls of ships. The basic setup of a ship hull doesn't appear to have changed. Alloys and ceramics. Not much of the periodic table present.

You could argue that the bacteria/fungus is suspended in the liquid, and the liquid both feeds and protects the microorganisms while they produce a caustic waste product, but if you're that advanced, just skip the middle man and directly fire the corrosive substance at hulls.

Or I'm thinking way too deep into this subject

 

[Jmanis]

This is not over yet

Mel 22 Sector DG-O C6-0 2 A
15.4
-12.5

Active. Cannon reported.

Nice. While I still don't have a UP, I'm away this whole weekend, so I'm really hoping FD have sowed hundreds of these things so I can try and help with pushing the search out (maybe to where they are coming from!). Leave some for us eh?

PS Can't rep

 

[CookieJarviz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6kfexl/salomés_requiem_a_final_message_from_kahina/ *cries*

 

[Rubbernuke]

The existence of the ship actually counters your point though. It is clearly far more complex than a microganism. The hull could be organic but not alive in of itself, sort of like the outer layer of our skin, which prevents all the problems we're talking about. That outer hull layer doesn't have to worry as much about temperature extremes, or radiation, or energy, because it isn't alive. At that point, it is effectively precisely the same as our hulls.

It isn't even beyond the realms of possibility that the entire hull is alive, but in order to do that it has to be supported by complex systems in order to remain alive. Microorganisms by definition are not complex. They have to be fully functional just by themselves.

We get that it's utterly alien tech, but regardless of how alien something is, there's still basic principles it has to follow if it's some kind of bacterial or fungal life form in the attack. That is it requires energy and substances to grow, as well as resisting the effects of its environment.

Now, resisting the effects is not beyond the realms of possibility, but there's significant issues with both energy and substances. Energy can obviously be gained from suns, but that won't always be the right energy output. Too weak, too strong, wrong frequency. Maybe you're in the shadow of a planet. You could get energy from chemical reactions, but you run into the substance issue. Space is empty of substances. And while you bring up the issue of elements for plants, they require a massive range in order to function. That wide range just isn't present on hulls of ships. The basic setup of a ship hull doesn't appear to have changed. Alloys and ceramics. Not much of the periodic table present.

You could argue that the bacteria/fungus is suspended in the liquid, and the liquid both feeds and prevents the microorganisms while they produce a caustic waste product, but if you're that advanced, just skip the middle man and directly fire the corrosive substance at hulls.

Or I'm thinking way too deep into this subject

Or, do they go back 'home' into hyperspace to 'feed'?

 

[TheHavoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6kfexl/salomés_requiem_a_final_message_from_kahina/ *cries*

Interesting. I mentioned some posts ago: let us finally link the loose ends together, CoR, Formidine Rift, Raxxla, Dark Wheel and of course the Thargoid stuff - in my opinion it all fits quite perfect. Why is it that NOW a final message from Salomé appears ?

 

[IiliI PEL IiliI]

Yes, although it tends to be within a certain range of Merope. Where did you find one?

MEL 22 SECTOR ZA-E B12-0 Just as soon as I dropped in and scooped around the sun.

 

[LordZoltan]

Yet there are so many different types of bacteria here on Earth that can survive extreme temperatures and destroy various metals never mind what sort of bacteria could be found on alien worlds or even created by Aliens. Combine that with advanced bio engineering such as the Guardians had and who can say what is and isn't possible ?

This is all true, but bacteria and viruses are not the same thing. As becks said - you need a living cell to act as a host to a virus, whereas bacteria colonise the environment.

But I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, and there still is a potential vector which might back up what you're saying: bacteriophages.

Viruses alter the way a cell works, repurposing it to benefit the virus.

Incidentally, that's a little bit like some funguses too (see DNA-Decay's excellent post I linked earlier re the fungus farms).

So your idea still has merit:

Say there's a common, but currently unknown to us, bacteria which can survive hard vacuum (like the non-bacterial tardigrades), and which can colonise ships.

You could engineer a bacteriophage which targets that bacteria whose purpose is to change the bacteria to become harmful to its environment.

Assuming you can deliver the virus to an existing colony, or perhaps even deliver an already-infected colony of that bacteria - you potentially have a way to spread it all across the human bubble as ships move around, docking in the nice warm atmospheres of stations.

Interesting. I mentioned some posts ago: let us finally link the loose ends together, CoR, Formidine Rift, Raxxla, Dark Wheel - in my opinion it all fits quite perfect.

Should be noted CoR is a player faction whose logo was designed by a player without any inside knowledge.

 

[Painbeaver]

Nice. While I still don't have a UP, I'm away this whole weekend, so I'm really hoping FD have sowed hundreds of these things so I can try and help with pushing the search out (maybe to where they are coming from!). Leave some for us eh?
PS Can't rep

Tnx

Leave some for us eh?

I'm really tired, but i can't stop. I need help. :|

 

[Thatchinho]

Indeed. But, what about the additional possibility of AI? We could be dealing with nano-machines. They could pretty much act like a virus, in that they could be programmed to attack hulls of any type - human ships or Thargoids. They could attack at the molecular level, being nano-machines. And lastly, nano machines controlled by an AI would need two things to replicate : 1) Energy source, and 2) Material source.

So what if there's a 3rd party involved here? One which is attacking both human ships and Thargoid ships? AI of some sort? Using nano-machines? Possibly from these Guardian chaps? Who knows?

Definitely a viable idea.

Also you can take the AI aspects out of what you've said completely and the idea is still valid. No need for the nano-tech to have an intelligent controller any more than there is for viruses or bacteria to have one.

At the other extreme, the nanotech could form a distributed intelligence and so they are both controlled by and are the AI, which ties in with Halsey's descriptions of what she encountered.

 

[Nagual]

This is all true, but bacteria and viruses are not the same thing. As becks said - you need a living cell to act as a host to a virus, whereas bacteria colonise the environment.

But I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, and there still is a potential vector which might back up what you're saying: bacteriophages.

Viruses alter the way a cell works, repurposing it to benefit the virus.

Incidentally, that's a little bit like some funguses too (see DNA-Decay's excellent post I linked earlier re the fungus farms).

So your idea still has merit:

Say there's a common, but currently unknown to us, bacteria which can survive hard vacuum (like the non-bacterial tardigrades), and which can colonise ships.

You could engineer a bacteriophage which targets that bacteria whose purpose is to change the bacteria to become harmful to its environment.

Assuming you can deliver the virus to an existing colony, or perhaps even deliver an already-infected colony of that bacteria - you potentially have a way to spread it all across the human bubble as ships move around, docking in the nice warm atmospheres of stations.



Should be noted CoR is a player faction whose logo was designed by a player without any inside knowledge.

Heh, I know no one is being deliberately difficult for the sake of it, all I am basically saying is it is foolish to dismiss any idea based on Human ideas and limitations.

 

[Arcanonn]

Hey Arc! - it's great be back matey I'm working my way back in slowly and will try to get into Discord for a natter ASAP.

I really like what you've done with the place, and absolutely chuffed glad that you're no longer in hiding

o7

Haha indeed I've been back in circulation for some time......however I pretty much just sit in the council chamber being fed grapes, reading reports and talking to the council . I do however venture out in public when its justified......you know for important things.......... like your return for example.

 

[TheHavoc]

This is all true, but bacteria and viruses are not the same thing. As becks said - you need a living cell to act as a host to a virus, whereas bacteria colonise the environment.

But I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, and there still is a potential vector which might back up what you're saying: bacteriophages.

Viruses alter the way a cell works, repurposing it to benefit the virus.

Incidentally, that's a little bit like some funguses too (see DNA-Decay's excellent post I linked earlier re the fungus farms).

So your idea still has merit:

Say there's a common, but currently unknown to us, bacteria which can survive hard vacuum (like the non-bacterial tardigrades), and which can colonise ships.

You could engineer a bacteriophage which targets that bacteria whose purpose is to change the bacteria to become harmful to its environment.

Assuming you can deliver the virus to an existing colony, or perhaps even deliver an already-infected colony of that bacteria - you potentially have a way to spread it all across the human bubble as ships move around, docking in the nice warm atmospheres of stations.



Should be noted CoR is a player faction whose logo was designed by a player without any inside knowledge.

I'm with you, but that doesn't mean that FD hasn't borrowed some....... inspiration .

 

[Muetdhiver]

Quick question :

Has anyone surveyed Merope 5c for such alien structures already ?

Did not see anyone mentioning it, but it seems like the obvious stuff that's already been done
and lost in the thread... (if no one did it, I'll have a looksee)

 

[Han_Zen]

Although the overall impression I'm getting from looking at Barnacles, Flowerships, Scavengers and the like, is a beautiful combination of biological life with electro-mechanical technology.

And how does the Mycoid virus work?

Is it purely a biological virus? Or is it a combination of biological and electro-mechanical technology? In which case I could see such a thing exhibit both biological behaviour and mechanical behaviour.

Perhaps the weaponry being used here and what we'll be using in the future, is such a thing. A chimera of biological and electro-mechanical tech.

It all hurts my poor brain. No doubt time will tell as the storyline unfolds

This is the story about the creation of Mycoid: http://www.dream-ware.co.uk/first-e...life-on-the-frontier/inevitable-consequences/

It was one of the short stories that came with FFE.

 

[TheHavoc]

Quick question :

Has anyone surveyed Merope 5c for such alien structures already ?

Did not see anyone mentioning it, but it seems like the obvious stuff that's already been done
and lost in the thread... (if no one did it, I'll have a looksee)

Not yet, but I'll do that this evening when everything goes smooth. And it would be great if some one could test scan the barnacle with the Unknown xyz in SRV hold.

Another idea to the whole crash-site-alien-base-discovery-thing: if there is NOT a third shadowy party involved (who attacked the Thargoid ships AND the federals) - is it thinkable that the Feds themselves sacrified their own people with a secret weapon to hold the military machine running smoothly ? That mankind should think that Thargoids would have attacked but they didn't ?

 

[Xenia_K]

Not yet, but I'll do that this evening when everything goes smooth. And it would be great if some one could test scan the barnacle with the Unknown xyz in SRV hold.

Another idea to the whole crash-site-alien-base-discovery-thing: if there is NOT a third shadowy party involved (who attacked the Thargoid ships AND the federals) - is it thinkable that the Feds themselves sacrified their own people with a secret weapon to hold the military machine running smoothly ? That mankind should think that Thargoids would have attacked but they didn't ?

thats a fair bit how politics works

 

[Becks]

Not yet, but I'll do that this evening when everything goes smooth. And it would be great if some one could test scan the barnacle with the Unknown xyz in SRV hold.

Another idea to the whole crash-site-alien-base-discovery-thing: if there is NOT a third shadowy party involved (who attacked the Thargoid ships AND the federals) - is it thinkable that the Feds themselves sacrified their own people with a secret weapon to hold the military machine running smoothly ? That mankind should think that Thargoids would have attacked but they didn't ?

That would be possible if it weren't for the size of this incident.

Sacrificing a cap ship + its considerable escorts force in a territory that you occupy against considerable resistance by other humans?

Probably not the best idea. A false flag action makes only sense if you can blame someone directly. Leaving the 'villian' uncovered causes people to start too many questions.