How could player-owned outposts / bases work?

[Dharrch Streynjer]

As for ignoring... no, I totally disagree with your viewpoint... there is a marked difference.

If you don't want anything to do with the BGS, then you are playing the wrong game. The BGS is key to the game mechanics and saying you don't want anything to do with them is tantamount to saying you want nothing to do with Elite.

I think you underestimate the issues in play wrt player owned/created bases/stations.

What are you talking about?
What is wrt?
Why do you make so much of BGS which is (in my opinion) a completely ignorable part of the game and only one aspect of Elite?
You seem to think that Elite is just for you methinks and anyone not playing your idea of the game should be denied.
I'm happy for you to disagree. But you did ignore what I said however much you deny it. It must be clear, even to you, that having a player owned base maintained and positioned by players is of benefit to explorers who otherwise are limited to the distances they can travel by the amount of damage they avoid, but when you realise that ships take irrepairable damage from just simply supercruising alone, the greatest distance you can cover, or even just time away from civilisation is limited without a pitstop or two along the way. Player owned bases would take the pressure off the Fdevs to provide stations in places where they simply wouldn't be appropriate.

Oh and no! I'm not playing the wrong game. I'm just not playing your game. I'm doing what the Devs said I could, and playing the game the way I want to. BGS is only really relevant to the bubble and surrounding systems. When the Thargoids come along I will be doing my bit then. As for factions, and or Powers... Nada I'm afraid. When I take on missions (and I do) I take them from anybody paying the credits. I don't much care who they are or why.

o7

 

[Mephane]

I think player-owned bases of any kind shouldn't be something for individual players. Instead we should first have some basic guild support and then guilds could be able to establish exactly 1 headquarters, on or in orbit around a planet/moon of their choosing, but limited to only those planets/moons where there is nothing yet on the ground or in orbit, and the exact orbit or location on the ground would be decided by FD (e.g. orbits should be realistic in diameter and period). This base would be an outpost in space (outpost archetype is chosen by the guild) or one of the smaller planetary bases (those with separate buildings, not the circular cities) on the ground, and the guild would have to work towards unlocking features like commodities, outfitting etc. The type of market, outfitting choices etc would all be procedurally determined by the game, not chosen by the guild, but when choosing a location the game would show what to expect there (e.g. "on this planet, economy will be extraction"), i.e. choose the location wisely.

The base then cannot be taken over but always remains in the possession of that player faction, but the base is never eligible for system ownership (i.e. for the faction to actually hold the system, it must hold the regular primary starport of the system). Guild bases can be used by any player and the usual rules regarding reputation/being wanted etc., apply.

 

[Dharrch Streynjer]

I think player-owned bases of any kind shouldn't be something for individual players. Instead we should first have some basic guild support and then guilds could be able to establish exactly 1 headquarters, on or in orbit around a planet/moon of their choosing, but limited to only those planets/moons where there is nothing yet on the ground or in orbit, and the exact orbit or location on the ground would be decided by FD (e.g. orbits should be realistic in diameter and period). This base would be an outpost in space (outpost archetype is chosen by the guild) or one of the smaller planetary bases (those with separate buildings, not the circular cities) on the ground, and the guild would have to work towards unlocking features like commodities, outfitting etc. The type of market, outfitting choices etc would all be procedurally determined by the game, not chosen by the guild, but when choosing a location the game would show what to expect there (e.g. "on this planet, economy will be extraction"), i.e. choose the location wisely.

The base then cannot be taken over but always remains in the possession of that player faction, but the base is never eligible for system ownership (i.e. for the faction to actually hold the system, it must hold the regular primary starport of the system). Guild bases can be used by any player and the usual rules regarding reputation/being wanted etc., apply.

I keep seeing this, but this is already implemented.
Players can take over bases in the bubble using player factions registered and approved by the FDevs.
Out in Colonia most all the bases are owned by player factions.
There's even at least one case of a player faction owning a megaship now (Canonn (sp.)).

o7

 

[verminstar]

What are you talking about?
What is wrt?
Why do you make so much of BGS which is (in my opinion) a completely ignorable part of the game and only one aspect of Elite?
You seem to think that Elite is just for you methinks and anyone not playing your idea of the game should be denied.
I'm happy for you to disagree. But you did ignore what I said however much you deny it. It must be clear, even to you, that having a player owned base maintained and positioned by players is of benefit to explorers who otherwise are limited to the distances they can travel by the amount of damage they avoid, but when you realise that ships take irrepairable damage from just simply supercruising alone, the greatest distance you can cover, or even just time away from civilisation is limited without a pitstop or two along the way. Player owned bases would take the pressure off the Fdevs to provide stations in places where they simply wouldn't be appropriate.

Oh and no! I'm not playing the wrong game. I'm just not playing your game. I'm doing what the Devs said I could, and playing the game the way I want to. BGS is only really relevant to the bubble and surrounding systems. When the Thargoids come along I will be doing my bit then. As for factions, and or Powers... Nada I'm afraid. When I take on missions (and I do) I take them from anybody paying the credits. I don't much care who they are or why.

o7

I repped ye but just one wee thing. Like yerself perhaps, I get to intentionally ignore most of the BGS as I spend the huge majority of my time outside the bubble. I still refer to colonia as jacques because the whole faction thing doesnt interest me in the slightest...in a strange sorta way, thats actually a little roleplay that harks back to the days when it went missing on its way to beagle point.

Point being that as easy as it is to ignore it, we are still a slave to it. I go to sell scan data as thats my only source of income...so I cant avoid using the bgs by selling to the only buyer which is cartographics who are as much a part of the bgs as anything else thats a part of it. If I want new shiny, I gotta go to the bubble and get it same as everyone else.

One owns a physical structure of any kind, and it becomes a part of the bgs whether we like it or not. When we arent in game, the little manpad would presumably persist as it only appearing and then vanishing as ye logout simply doesnt make sense. Ergo it is literally always running in the background.

Can assure ye, Im more or less indifferent to the bgs in this game but I also understand how it works and there is literally no way to ignore it entirely...which is a shame but thats a whole barrel of worms topic. If it was a vanity issue, it probably wouldnt be an issue but its not...its a funtional something with is persistant and subject to the laws of how the bgs works as a consequence.

And thats why its a hard sell...as much as I would genuinely support this, Im also fully aware that this is no trivial little item either. Made all the harder because the big fella Braben ruled it out years ago...but times changes and perhaps new possibilities are possible, so one tries what one can and hopes fer the best...but wont be surprised by the worst ^

 

[WR3ND]

Basically, we all want star citizen ..make it happen David!

At the least hopefully it'll help sort out the forum some and people who actually want to enjoy and talk about this game and make apt suggestions and insights relevant to this game can do so in a little more peace.

Sorry, guys, but this game really isn't about player bases. This is a spaceship Commander game. The closest we'll get is our ships, of course, and maybe something similar to faction ships.

Hope this helps sort things out and give players some more realistic expectations. I do enjoy Minecraft and Space Engineers too you know.

 

[lenna]

I think player-owned bases of any kind shouldn't be something for individual players.

I agree with this, but I should emphasise I am not against the concept of a player owned and customisable space with-in an NPC controlled base. Something like a hangar/apartment that is instanced to owning player (and eventually invited individuals) and does not restrict other players from having a comparable space at the same location.

Instead we should first have some basic guild support and then guilds could be able to establish exactly 1 headquarters

I believe player controlled guilds have no place in ED, the current minor faction system with FD's support for adding player requested minor factions is as far as such a system should go IMO. That being said, I am not against the concept of being able to pledge our support for any given minor faction.

Currently, such minor factions do have a home system allocated at time of adding by FD and it is up-to the players who associate with a given minor faction to use the existing BGS systems to enable the given minor faction to gain/maintain control of stations/bases. With a minor faction pledging mechanic, this could be made slightly easier for players in general - especially if a tithe type system was to be incorporated as part of the aforementioned pledging mechanic (e.g. money converted to home system faction influence).

I should emphasise that I am not talking about something that is of the level of Power Play pledging but rather something far simpler and less expansive.

 

[Ravenscord]

I would like to be able to rent storage space on a space station.

 

[lenna]

At the least hopefully it'll help sort out the forum some and people who actually want to enjoy and talk about this game and make apt suggestions and insights relevant to this game can do so in a little more peace.

I think people in general should stop lobbying for certain changes just to make ED more like their particular favoured game... that being said, I am not against improvements that I feel are appropriate to ED and can be done without changing the fundamental nature of ED.

Sorry, guys, but this game really isn't about player bases. This is a spaceship Commander game. The closest we'll get is our ships, of course, and maybe something similar to faction ships

Hit the nail on the head IMO, can't rep you so you will just have to settle for the kudos.

Hope this helps sort things out and give players some more realistic expectations. I do enjoy Minecraft and Space Engineers too you know.

I don't play either Mine Craft or Space Engineers, but I do play (or have played and enjoyed) some comparable titles (in terms of having building/base mechanics) - The X-Series of games, Star Forge, and some others

 

[lenna]

I would like to be able to rent storage space on a space station.

I don't think this will ever happen (if you mean what I think you mean - cargo storage space), I can maybe see us being able to rent/buy apartment/hangar space at some point though.

 

[Sunleader]

The Easiest Way for Player Owned Outposts and Stations etc would be to Allow Players to actually Join a Faction similar to Powerplay.
We already Got Playergroups and Player Owned Minor Factions after all.

So the Faction Leader would also have Control over the Stations Controlled or Build by his Faction.


This would Generally not need much.
The Player control Mechanic for his Factions Owned Station.

Being able to Upgrade Different Economy Chains for which Product he Produces and Sells.
Being able to Upgrade the Services the Station has. (What Weapons and Equipment are Sold, what Ships are Sold, what other Services like Market or Black Market are Available)
Being able to Decide what is Illegal on the Station.
Being able to set how much Security the Station Employs.

The Minor Faction would get an Share of Profits the Station Makes. Which would then be Paid out to the Minor Factions Members and the Leader depending on the Settings the Leader has for the Minor Faction.



This would Limit Station Ownership very Strictly. As its very Difficult to make Factions Grow beyond a few Systems.
It would also make sure that Station Ownership will not prevent Neutral Players from using the Station or anything.

 

[lenna]

We already Got Playergroups and Player Owned Minor Factions after all.

Player owned minor factions - no, Player requested but NPC owned/controlled minor factions - yes. As for player groups, player private/public groups are a mode of play and largely irrelevant in this particular context.

So the Faction Leader would also have Control over the Stations Controlled or Build by his Faction.

Nope - disagree with this, players should not have "direct" influence/control over which stations are controlled or built by a given faction.

 

[Sunleader]

Player owned minor factions - no, Player requested but NPC owned/controlled minor factions - yes. As for player groups, player private/public groups are a mode of play and largely irrelevant in this particular context.


Nope - disagree with this, players should not have "direct" influence/control over which stations are controlled or built by a given faction.

1.
Owned and Controlled is two Different Things.
FD is regarding these Player Factions as Owned by the Player.
And the Player who owns it can in Fact make Adjustments to these Factions by requesting that from FD.


2.
Well thats your Opinion.
I for my Part think it would Greatly Add to the Game to have Players actually Run the Economy rather than having an Fully Automatic Economy that just runs down Timers.
But thats an Opinion based thing.

If you want to remain just another nameless Fighter Pilot thats your thing.
I would like this Game to Evolve enough that Players can actually become more than that.

 

[lenna]

1.
Owned and Controlled is two Different Things.
FD is regarding these Player Factions as Owned by the Player.
And the Player who owns it can in Fact make Adjustments to these Factions by requesting that from FD.

There is a difference between owning the IP of a faction (the current situation in reality), and actually owning the faction in-game.

2.
Well thats your Opinion.
I for my Part think it would Greatly Add to the Game to have Players actually Run the Economy rather than having an Fully Automatic Economy that just runs down Timers.
But thats an Opinion based thing.

If you want to remain just another nameless Fighter Pilot thats your thing.
I would like this Game to Evolve enough that Players can actually become more than that.

Then go play EvE or other group/faction/empire based game...

Elite has never been a game about empire building or running a company and I would hate to see ED head down that slippery road. Group think infects society too much as it is, I don't want nor need it in my gaming environment. In addition, I have seen how in-game economies can be wrecked by player action or inaction and that typically results in net negative gameplay - So No thank you, where player run/managed economies are concerned.

If ED were a single player game without a shared game state, or had multiple game state instances that players could pick and choose between then I might agree with your perspective. However, ED is not like that and FD made the design decision long ago that only a single shared universe state would be maintained. Due to this, I am 100% dead against the kind of group (and player centric) play some are trying to force on the game.

That being said, by your definition I am a minor faction "owner" and I do try and support it through BGS activities when I have time. I am not against limited abilities to influence the BGS evolution as far as player minor-factions are concerned but the limits of which I am referring to appear to be too constraining for at least some.

FD should probably have not let players be able to create their own minor factions by proxy (as they have done - too late to reverse what they have done to date though and probably should not change policy on that score now) as every small concession to certain types of gameplay gives the impression that larger concessions (like that has been discussed here) are on the cards. It is a dangerous precedent to head down that route and FD should stick to their guns and neither give into nor encourage any further concessions along the "guild" or player controlled company/empire/faction line of thought.

 

[WR3ND]

For me, I certainly don't want this to become an I win at Facebook/Twitter type of game and any kind of meta group hive minds like that can stay outside of this game where they belong. Once you have player controlled assets you have group controlled assets, and once you have group controlled assets you no longer have Elite: Dangerous – a game about spaceship Commanders in the Pilots Federation in the 34^th century – you have a game which is primarily about real world social networking and social engineering. There is already more than enough of that in this game for my tastes.

In Minecraft, for example, there are effectively infinite game universes, each with limitless assets – depending on game settings. In this game there is only one game universe with finite assets – numerous and vast as they might be. They're different games, and it's OK; there can be different games, and we can all choose to play whichever ones suit our preferences or not as we might wish.

Likewise, Eve isn't a game I want to play (for the above mentioned reasons), so I don't, and that's OK.

Some might argue that ships are player controlled assets, however, they are not finite, and the case could be made that they are our bases already. Maybe people are approaching this from the wrong perspective and we could look at further enhancing and fleshing out our roles and capabilities within our own ships instead. Tactical mobile bases of operation. Sounds good to me, and fairly apt for something spaceship Commanders would have control of.

However, if it is the goal of this discussion for some to have ways of lording assets over other players implemented, such as having player controlled stations or the like, then I'm afraid it is a complete nonstarter, and from my perspective something that certainly doesn't belong in this game whatsoever.

Lastly, much of this game is about mobility, flexibility, and freedom of choice, i.e., a game about spaceship Commanders, not spacestation Commanders – well, except for Jaques Station, but Jaques isn't a player anyway, and they unfortunately have him held up in Colonia at the moment, but I digress. Having dedicated stationary player bases would serve to further limit the overall flexibility of players as spaceship Commanders, and being a spaceship Commander seems to be the primary focus of this game to me.

 

[Dharrch Streynjer]

I see a lot of posts telling me what this game is and isn't about. The truth is the game is what the FDevs have made it and whatever you can make of it.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a player base. In my opinion sending players out into the great beyond without one is the equivalent of sending out exploration vessels without the ability to set up temporary settlements while they regroup, recoup and repair.
Basically, all I am asking for, and I believe a few others too, is the equivalent of a spaceship sized pop-up shelter (perhaps a bit bigger than that :¬)), where I can leave behind a few bits and bobs to aid me in keeping out of the way of you lot :¬). Not a fully fledged faction controlled BGS altering Orbis ring to call my own.
I don't understand why this breaks any of the game ideology as it was something hinted at even as long ago as the 80s in Elite Frontier First Encounters when planetary landings were first introduced.
This version of Elite has changed from the original in many ways. I recall we used to be able to switch to rear and side views to fire lasers and such even whilst fleeing. Nevertheless I'm enjoying the revival in it's revamped updated state and feel that asking for other items (which were originally promised before revocation) should not be out of bounds.

o7

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I think, and i haven't thought this through, If player factions, were able to build their own stations, be it surface port, or outpost, or full on space port, it'd generally be ok if;

• They cost an enormous amount of money, materials, and commodities to build. More if you want decent outfitting or shipyard. It'd be a massive undertaking with lots of risk.
• Before being built, the owner(s) get to decide a few things, like the name, and style, and location. It can only be built in a system your faction has controlling influence, so no randoms out in the middle of nowhere.
• Player built stations would be rare, so FD can get final say whether it will be allowed or not. This process would be disguised as a "planning permission" form, which is filled out, in game, and FD can approve or decline.
• After being built, it's handed over to the BGS, but the player and/or faction that constructed it gets a massive buff in its influence (or something). It'd be very hard to steal initially, and cements their position in the system some more.
• The players or faction who built it get a permanent 15% discount on everything, and a steady revenue based on the BGS, unless lose control of it.
• Not sure how rivals would oppose it, except maybe if they can flip the system before it's built...? I don't understand the BGS enough to comment really.

But all that said, I wouldn't care unless someone to built a port that blocks the entrance to my home port. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[lenna]

I see a lot of posts telling me what this game is and isn't about. The truth is the game is what the FDevs have made it and whatever you can make of it.

The points that have been raised on this score should not be ignored... You are right in that FD made the game what it is now, but that is not what some seem to be trying to turn it into. As for "whatever you can make of it", only with-in the parameters set by FD.

where I can leave behind a few bits and bobs

Like what? We have AFMUs, Synthesis, and Fuel Scooping... they cover the typical replenishment scenarios without needing to "store" anything... if you are talking about storing cargo, that has mostly been ruled out - probably for game economy management reasons.

As for staying out of people's way... there is always solo and private group modes (that is basically their fundamental reason for being there).

Overall though, if all you want is basically the equivalent of ESO Homes (and similar) then there is no issue, but the locations of those "Homes"/"Bases" should be set by FD and not arbitrarily decided any given player. That way FD can keep the overall game experience appropriately managed.

If you want arbitrarily placed constructs, even in some cookie cutter form, then you are better of looking at other games better suited for that mechanic.

 

[Chongo]

Anything like this, unless it didn't interact with the main game somehow and was your private little area, would have to be given the option to assign tags for gamemode in which it appears. Otherwise people would solo-gank. And it's difficult beyond that in regard to reward/ investment/ rebuilding etc. Dunno, seems bound to not jive with this mishmash of different games FD has going on. Gotta be honest, I'm a full time pvp'er but I really think what FD needs to work on is exploration. Why have 400 billion stars when it's essentially a slideshow + inception noise. That and fixing bugs. Just do that for the next year or so. Not personal items.

 

[jasonbarron]

Anything like this, unless it didn't interact with the main game somehow and was your private little area, would have to be given the option to assign tags for gamemode in which it appears. Otherwise people would solo-gank. And it's difficult beyond that in regard to reward/ investment/ rebuilding etc. Dunno, seems bound to not jive with this mishmash of different games FD has going on. Gotta be honest, I'm a full time pvp'er but I really think what FD needs to work on is exploration. Why have 400 billion stars when it's essentially a slideshow + inception noise. That and fixing bugs. Just do that for the next year or so. Not personal items.

With talk like that none of us are going to buy that you're a real PvPer.

 

[obliterator]

I don't want to see player property ownership in Elite. Its not an Empire building game.

The instancing makes it difficult too, as we have a shared galaxy.
If your base is destroyed in my instance, what happens to it in another instance (where it might not even be under attack)?

They could simply embrace the fact that the whole game is instanced and make it instanced also. Only the owner of the base (and maybe his friends) could see it. An entire population of players is instanced out of open play, I don't see why instanced housing should be a problem.