Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing

[babelfisch]

I want them punished because it's what is right. There are rules, you break them you need to pay the price. The very same way I want cheaters in solo, who aren't affecting me much either, to be punished. Any system of rules breaks down if the rules are allowed to be ignored.

If everyone blocks them it would be like being shadow banned to solo which is the same like the punishment you are asking for. The only difference is that you can start working on this punishment now rather than waiting for FDEV to continue doing nothing about it.

 

[Cpt Spaulding]

I happily use the block cmdr feature. Just like others who happily write kill on site lists.
If I feel that you meet my requirements, you're blocked and gone from my open experience forever.

 

[StarfireIX]

- Thread Description -

Here's the thing.. there are scenarios that can be griefing or non-griefing. Firstly, though, considering there's a block function that de-instances from the player is legitimately an exploit. If it was intended by FD, then it's a pretty antisocial feature. (Fire all the drama at this quote if you wish, but it stands true in every way)

Getting onto the differences. Consensual or Non-Consensual, you may and will encounter those who have intentions. PowerPlay, for one, is a pretty common battlefield in PvP, and you may get pulled and attacked if you're opposing a power. 2.4 Federation Bounties will be ignoring PowerPlay for similar reasons.

Now as with the term "griefing" and "ganking", they are different in definition. Griefing may be repeatedly attacking the player or pushing him/her to the point of crying or quitting the game. Ganking is where an attacker has no reasons to kill a player but for fun or just boredum/trolling. Although both terms have been used together, since the majority of a player griefed at a CG was probably from a gank. However, I just came here to clarify that if you're unaware.

So how would FD fix it?
- They should set the stations to kill anyone wanted, except for smugglers with precious cargo. This would make sense as a pirate, since you had committed a crime in that system. If your bounty is less than 1,000 CR, then you won't get blown to sky high. Secondly, they should adjust the block feature so that it only blocks communication with the player. Thirdly, make the NPC police hard to fight for PvPers, in addition the response time for them to arrive should be in a few seconds than minutes (over-engineered cops should level the playing field). And thirdly, to prevent station ganking, the victim should not be wanted if the attacker is faster than the victim. Simple maths, Frontier!


On a side note: I have had traders come up to me and ask why I had "ganked" them. It was simply for the reason they were opposing my power and I had no objections to destroy their vessel on behalf of Imperial Law.


Fly Imperial, Commanders!


- CMDR StarfireIX

 

[Stigbob]

Here's the thing.. there are scenarios that can be griefing or non-griefing. Firstly, though, considering there's a block function that de-instances from the player is legitimately an exploit. If it was intended by FD, then it's a pretty antisocial feature. (Fire all the drama at this quote if you wish, but it stands true in every way)

Getting onto the differences. Consensual or Non-Consensual, you may and will encounter those who have intentions. PowerPlay, for one, is a pretty common battlefield in PvP, and you may get pulled and attacked if you're opposing a power. 2.4 Federation Bounties will be ignoring PowerPlay for similar reasons.

Now as with the term "griefing" and "ganking", they are different in definition. Griefing may be repeatedly attacking the player or pushing him/her to the point of crying or quitting the game. Ganking is where an attacker has no reasons to kill a player but for fun or just boredum/trolling. Although both terms have been used together, since the majority of a player griefed at a CG was probably from a gank. However, I just came here to clarify that if you're unaware.

So how would FD fix it?
- They should set the stations to kill anyone wanted, except for smugglers with precious cargo. This would make sense as a pirate, since you had committed a crime in that system. If your bounty is less than 1,000 CR, then you won't get blown to sky high. Secondly, they should adjust the block feature so that it only blocks communication with the player. Thirdly, make the NPC police hard to fight for PvPers, in addition the response time for them to arrive should be in a few seconds than minutes (over-engineered cops should level the playing field). And thirdly, to prevent station ganking, the victim should not be wanted if the attacker is faster than the victim. Simple maths, Frontier!


On a side note: I have had traders come up to me and ask why I had "ganked" them. It was simply for the reason they were opposing my power and I had no objections to destroy their vessel on behalf of Imperial Law.


Fly Imperial, Commanders!


- CMDR StarfireIX

Opinions vary on what ganking/griefing is, so any attempt to pin it down is relevant only to the author really.

Thats the beauty of player choice, each to his or her own. Use or don't use the block function in exactly the way you see fit and don't worry about what other players might or might not do with it and everyones happy.

 

[Morbad]

Question: Is there a way to unblock once you've blocked?

You can unblock from the friends and groups page.

The game is about space. There are innumerable things to do. There are quite a lot of ways of doing them.

The game is about depicting a setting for our CMDRs to exist in. You can't have a plausible setting where the money supply is infinite, yet prices never change.

What do you mean by "plausible progression"? From 100cr to 1,000,000,000cr? From Sidewinder to Cutter or Corvette?

A rate that reflects what is ostensibly the value of these things. Being able to get them with zero effort in nearly as little time, to the extent that some of the most expensive ships in the game are also some of the most common, is not believable.

So you are concerned that the economy in the game is somehow damaged by someone who has more cr than you? I do not see how that works. Please explain.

My credits are irrelevant. I would gladly see a complete reset if I though Frontier would do it right the second time.

We have a situation where there are hard price fixes, but an exponential explosion in credit supply...which essentially devalues everything related to credits.

Frankly, the game is beyond hope, economically, at this point. I don't see any way to correct things, to give the setting the verisimilitude that was pushed as a core part of Frontier's vision without that complete reset, where everyone has to start over...after making sure past mistakes are corrected and won't be repeated.

 

[Stigbob]

Frankly, the game is beyond hope, economically, at this point. I don't see any way to correct things, to give the setting the verisimilitude that was pushed as a core part of Frontier's vision without that complete reset, where everyone has to start over...after making sure past mistakes are corrected and won't be repeated.

No thanks on the reset I like my legit stuff.

 

[Xenith]

Frankly, the game is beyond hope, economically, at this point. I don't see any way to correct things, to give the setting the verisimilitude that was pushed as a core part of Frontier's vision without that complete reset, where everyone has to start over...after making sure past mistakes are corrected and won't be repeated.

The economy is fine, given that there is no player driven economy to effect. The people who have used money exploits have zero effect on everyone else, except perhaps a disparity in ships and outfitting with regards to PvP, but in no other way is this an issue which requires everyone else to start from scratch. Not only would that pretty much end most people's involvement with the game, it would be very good grounds for a full refund, one which I can assure you I would actively seek with legal counsel if required.

 

[StevieG]

Lets make Open great again

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

No thanks on the reset I like my legit stuff.

Legit in your perception. Someone else might look at the things you have done in your game time and call you an exploiter for some reason. That is at the heart of the problem on all of these conversations especially when some people can't see beyond their nose.

Lets make Open great again

Ah you must mean do nothing and talk lots of trash while dividing the player base.

 

[Stealthie]

Thanks for the info guys. That at least places a limit on potential abuses so that's good. My concerns now remain around the witch hunt aspects of pre-emptive blocking/reporting on sight and also how this impacts ED's ambitions as an MMO with a shared BGS but one which offers players the option of invulnerability while they can continue to affect the game world/other players.

FWIW, I certainly wouldn't block anybody just for having a pop at me, or because I'd seen their name on some "list" and I stumbled across them in-game.

I once saw somebody in an AspS continually griefing people landed at Farseer Inc.
I even destroyed their ship and when I came back, half an hour later, they were back at it.
That's the sort of person who I'm forced to assume is a bit of a tool and I would now block if I saw them again.

Also, I should say, I wouldn't want to see the guy "Pad Blocking" get into serious trouble either.
If I had reported him, I'd hope it resulted in nothing more than a message from FDev Support reminding him to log out if he's AFK for extended periods.

 

[StevieG]

Ah you must mean do nothing.

No... We have too many players in solo or private and we should do everything possible to encourage these players into an Open universe that works for all CMDRs not just the trigger happy few.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

FWIW, I certainly wouldn't block anybody just for having a pop at me, or because I'd seen their name on some "list" and I stumbled across them in-game.

I once saw somebody in an AspS continually griefing people landed at Farseer Inc.
I even destroyed their ship and when I came back, half an hour later, they were back at it.
That's the sort of person who I'm forced to assume is a bit of a tool and I would now block if I saw them again.

Also, I should say, I wouldn't want to see the guy "Pad Blocking" get into serious trouble either.
If I had reported him, I'd hope it resulted in nothing more than a message from FDev Support reminding him to log out if he's AFK for extended periods.

You absolutely should not block the guy in the AspS. You did the people at Farseer a service who might not have been able to defend themselves. One thing I have learned about most actual griefers is that they are bad at the game and don't like to lose. If you kill them a few times they eventually rage quit.

No... We have too many players in solo or private and we should do everything possible to encourage these players into an Open universe that works for all CMDRs not just the trigger happy few.

I edited my post but I still think you missed the reference.

 

[TheNavvie]

Sorry Jason but Quince is not a exploit as per FD reply in a old thread as follows it is working as intended

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...t*-of-people?p=5636410&viewfull=1#post5636410

Hi there,

Actually it's not even 3 per faction.

After you already have 3 (or more) of a restricted mission type, you won't see any more when you refresh the mission board menu screen.

You can accept any that you can see.

This is working exactly as was designed, but may well be revisited in the future.

Thanks,
Dom

My reading of that is that the Mission Board is working exactly as intended, not that the missions at Quince are.

 

[Morbad]

The economy is fine, given that there is no player driven economy to effect.

Players can absolutely influence aspects of the economy. It's just that other core aspects are fixed, as well as that the arbitrary values of things like bounty vouchers, combat bonds, and mission rewards were scaled without there being any way for prices to follow.

Frontier could have fleshed out the economy, but they decided to abort it instead, and that is one of the biggest problems the game has.

The people who have used money exploits have zero effect on everyone else

I don't agree, for reasons that I and many others have expounded upon in detail elsewhere.

Suffice to say, there is essentially nothing you or anyone else can do in this game that won't have some impact on my experience. That comes part and parcel with having a shared background sim.

Not only would that pretty much end most people's involvement with the game, it would be very good grounds for a full refund, one which I can assure you I would actively seek with legal counsel if required.

I know there are too many screw ups for the game to both live up to it's potential and be simultaneously profitable. I have no illusions that any major fixes will not be expensive for Frontier...which is why I don't expect to see them.

We don't see fixes for major long standing issues...more 'content' is more profitable than content that works. Inflating the player base is more profitable than keeping the players you already have happy and most of the latter will be kept content with bread and circuses anyway.

 

[Xenith]

Players can absolutely influence aspects of the economy.

Aspects, nothing more. It's not a full blown player driven economy, and it's actually rather bare bones for a simulation.

I don't agree, for reasons that I and many others have expounded upon in detail elsewhere.

Suffice to say, there is essentially nothing you or anyone else can do in this game that won't have some impact on my experience. That comes part and parcel with having a shared background sim.

That's your opinion, of course, and you are welcome to it. But until I see some hard evidence that credit exploiters have in some way negatively impacted my experience, then I will still conclude that their effect on the sim is minor at best. Now, if it was driving up the price of everything in the game, as it would with a proper full player driven economy, then you would have a fantastic case for this being a major issue, and I would be behind you 100%, but that isn't the case with this game.

I know there are too many screw ups for the game to both live up to it's potential and be simultaneously profitable. I have no illusions that any major fixes will not be expensive for Frontier...which is why I don't expect to see them.

We don't see fixes for major long standing issues...more 'content' is more profitable than content that works. Inflating the player base is more profitable than keeping the players you already have happy and most of the latter will be kept content with bread and circuses anyway.

The game does have its issues, as any game of this size will invariably experience, but it's still a good game. Yes, they should be fixing issues a lot quicker than they do, and yes it is infuriating that some bugs have been around since 2015, have been reported hundreds of times but remain unfixed to this day, and yes this should not be the case when they can obviously produce new content without such delays. But to write the entire game off? No, that's an overreaction; I've seen far worse, played far worse, and unfortunately lost money to far worse games with far worse development teams than this, so I know when something is a write off... this isn't such a game.

 

[Morbad]

That's your opinion

It's not an opinion. It's a fact that if you touch faction influence, control, or state, or buy/sell commodities, that I'll see the effects of that on my end. Huge swaths of the political map are unrecognizable from release. Players did that.

But to write the entire game off? No, that's an overreaction

I'm not writing the whole game off. It's the best experience of of it's kind in a solid decade...mostly because it's been the only experience of it's kind since then.

 

[Stigbob]

Legit in your perception. Someone else might look at the things you have done in your game time and call you an exploiter for some reason. That is at the heart of the problem on all of these conversations especially when some people can't see beyond their nose.

Not me lovey, I'm a straight shooter.

That's one of the reasons I'm happy to drop the block-hammer on anyone who isn't.

 

[Stigbob]

Players can absolutely influence aspects of the economy. It's just that other core aspects are fixed, as well as that the arbitrary values of things like bounty vouchers, combat bonds, and mission rewards were scaled without there being any way for prices to follow.

Frontier could have fleshed out the economy, but they decided to abort it instead, and that is one of the biggest problems the game has.

I don't agree, for reasons that I and many others have expounded upon in detail elsewhere.

Suffice to say, there is essentially nothing you or anyone else can do in this game that won't have some impact on my experience. That comes part and parcel with having a shared background sim.

I know there are too many screw ups for the game to both live up to it's potential and be simultaneously profitable. I have no illusions that any major fixes will not be expensive for Frontier...which is why I don't expect to see them.

We don't see fixes for major long standing issues...more 'content' is more profitable than content that works. Inflating the player base is more profitable than keeping the players you already have happy and most of the latter will be kept content with bread and circuses anyway.

What does any of this have to do with the block function ?.

 

[Stealthie]

You absolutely should not block the guy in the AspS. You did the people at Farseer a service who might not have been able to defend themselves. One thing I have learned about most actual griefers is that they are bad at the game and don't like to lose. If you kill them a few times they eventually rage quit.

An interesting point.

Alas, I'm not the EDPD and, in lieu of a working C&P system to deter such activities, I prioritise my own right to not be around tools above other people's need to be defended from tools.

 

[kinglemo2000]

My reading of that is that the Mission Board is working exactly as intended, not that the missions at Quince are.

If you read back on the thread he replys in answer to a question on why at Quince can you take more than 3 scan missions and if it is a bug .i.e. then it must be a exploit, unfortunately you would have to read several pages of posts as some were calling for the Quince exploits to be punished as well.

The designers answer as I posted is the missions are working as intended hence that is why they are still available unlike the passengers missons which were removed