Why is the Mission Generation System Still Broken?

[Crank Larson]

Have you actually read any of the bug reports? Because FD has stated they are investigating and trying to fix it. They don't fix something that is working as intended.

Yes, I read the bug you linked. The only statement there was from a QA asking if the issue was still occurring. Please point me at the bug where FD confirmed it is an issue.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Yes, they are populated for the individual player. They are generated locally based on BGS data sent from the FD server every time there is a BGS "tick".

That's not how they work at all.

The missions are generated server-side and distributed to the client when it connects to the mission/passenger board. Turn on your bandwidth meter and check out the data transfer when you open the board.

I mean, if they were individually tailored, other players wouldn't see the exact same missions when they logged into the same board at the same time, would they?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Missions are generated for each individual player by their local client based on BSG data. That's why you won't see the same missions on the mission boards even if two players are in the same instance at the same station. There is an element of RNG in the client-side mission generation that relies on BSG data but you are not "taking" a mission from FD's server, the game is generating missions for your CMDR based on the BGS server data from each "tick".

It's very similar to how the commodity generation system works. You are not "taking" supply from the station directly. You'll notice that if you are running a trade route there will be a certain commodity limit which is generated locally based on BGS data. What you'll notice if you watch the numbers carefully is that this doesn't decrease like regular inventory even when you should be exhausting the local supply. I have filled my cargo holds with a certain amount of commodity at a station then upon my return there is exactly the same quantity available again. It's not until the collective player activities trigger a change in the BSG data that this is updated by the server "tick" and the supply decreases. You are not all taking inventory from FD's central server, you are taking inventory from a local limit generated based on BSG data. They are very different concepts and it has to do with the way the P2P architecture works and interfaces with the BGS data.

If FD had a central server doing all of these things then it would completely different, everyone could see exactly the same missions and commodity inventories. Unfortunately FD went with a much less expensive P2P architecture instead of a central server that stores and processes all of this data and that is why we have some of these issues. You are not getting missions or commodities from a central source shared by all players, you are getting BGS data that is updated with each sever "tick". There is a massive difference between getting a mission that is generated directly and stored on a central server and getting a BGS "tick" that tells your local client to generate missions.

This is basically testicles.

Ignore it.

 

[Devari]

That's not how they work at all.

The missions are generated server-side and distributed to the client when it connects to the mission/passenger board. Turn on your bandwidth meter and check out the data transfer when you open the board.

They are generated for that individual client based on the BGS data. The bandwith you're seeing is not FD's server "distributing" stored missions, it's the process of updating the BSG data and synching with the server. There is no persistent generation or storage of missions sever-side. Those missions are generated for your local client with each sever tick. The missions you see are not seen by any other player and each player gets a completely different set of missions. That requires your local client to store individual information based on the BSG data.

It's the same with commodities, FD's server doesn't properly track individual commodity supply. I've done trade runs where I should have exhausted the local supply during a trade run, yet the number of that commodity available remains identical when I return. The sever is not storing or tracking individual usage from a central server with persistent numbers of each commodity.

 

[Dominic Corner]

Yes, they are populated for the individual player. They are generated locally based on BGS data sent from the FD server every time there is a BGS "tick"..

Hi there,

No... No they aren't...

Everything about missions is generated on the adjudication server, your local client has less than nothing to do with it.

We've also publically said that we know about the conflict massacre mission inequality issue and we're working on it.

Please let us know if it's still an issue in 2.4 as there are a number of changes in there which should help.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Devari]

I mean, if they were individually tailored, other players wouldn't see the exact same missions when they logged into the same board at the same time, would they?

They usually don't. Occasionally you will see two identical missions because the RNG is limited and is generating output based on the same BGS data, but there are many examples on the forums where players have been in the same instance at the same station and have not seen the same missions.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

All of that type of mission, were taken by other players before you got there. They are bound to be popular, especially those associated with a CG. Mission boards aren't drawn up for individuals.

BGS dose not work like that

 

[Crank Larson]

They are generated for that individual client based on the BGS data. The bandwith you're seeing is not FD's server "distributing" stored missions, it's the process of updating the BSG data and synching with the server. There is no persistent generation or storage of missions sever-side. Those missions are generated for your local client with each sever tick. The missions you see are not seen by any other player and each player gets a completely different set of missions. That requires your local client to store individual information based on the BSG data.

It's the same with commodities, FD's server doesn't properly track individual commodity supply. I've done trade runs where I should have exhausted the local supply during a trade run, yet the number of that commodity available remains identical when I return. The sever is not storing or tracking individual usage from a central server with persistent numbers of each commodity.

Do you have a source for this? It is the mission server that generates the missions - when the mission server is unavailable, you don't get missions (instead you get a message telling you that the mission server was not available). Nothing you have stated about missions makes the slightest bit of sense.

EDIT: Never mind, already clarified by FD in this thread.

 

[Devari]

Hi there,

No... No they aren't...

Everything about missions is generated on the adjudication server, your local client has less than nothing to do with it.

What I don't understand is why there so much variability in mission generation if it is entirely server-side process? if our local client isn't involved in the mission generation process at all then why don't players in the same instance at the same station see identical missions? Shouldn't all players see the same missions if they're in the same instance and station at the same time?

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

I got it. I think you are wrong. The system isn't broken, you just don't like how it works, or you just don't know as much about it as you think you do. Either way, I'm cool with that.

P.S. Stations do have a control on how many 'Rares' are available at one time. I've sat waiting for 'Rares' to spawn on the Market.

lol comments like this is why mis-information and "fake news" are a thing

 

[Devari]

Do you have a source for this? It is the mission server that generates the missions - when the mission server is unavailable, you don't get missions (instead you get a message telling you that the mission server was not available). Nothing you have stated about missions makes the slightest bit of sense.

EDIT: Never mind, already clarified by FD in this thread.

The issue that doesn't add up is that players have been in the same instance together at a station and seen different missions. If this is entirely a server-side process then why doesn't everyone see the same missions when they are in the same instance?

We know that the local client generates NPCs, USSs and so on to the point that once you enter a USS other players don't see it and can't enter it unless they drop in on your wake.

 

[Dominic Corner]

What I don't understand is why there so much variability in mission generation if it is entirely server-side process? if our local client isn't involved in the mission generation process at all then why don't players in the same instance at the same station see identical missions? Shouldn't all players see the same missions if they're in the same instance and station at the same time?

Hi there,

Give me a sec and I'll try to dig out a post I made a few months back about this...

[edit]
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...noys-the-hell-out-of-me?p=5136780#post5136780

The short version is the mission types on a board are the same for everyone on the same adjudication server, but certain features of those missions change based on your rank/rep/etc. during what we call the mission scaling stage.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Devari]

Hi there,

Give me a sec and I'll try to dig out a post I made a few months back about this...

[edit]
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...noys-the-hell-out-of-me?p=5136780#post5136780

The short version is the mission types on a board are the same for everyone on the same adjudication server, but certain features of those missions change based on your rank/rep/etc. during what we call the mission scaling stage.

Thanks,
Dom

Thanks, that's a very interesting post. From what I gather then if two CMDRs had exactly (or nearly exactly) the same rank/ship/cargo and were at the same station in the same instance, they would see the same missions? Or is there still an RNG element that would cause variability in the mission generation process?

 

[Dominic Corner]

Thanks, that's a very interesting post. From what I gather then if two CMDRs had exactly (or nearly exactly) the same rank/ship/cargo and were at the same station in the same instance, they would see the same missions? Or is there still an RNG element that would cause variability in the mission generation process?

Hi there,

I don't have everything in front of me right now, but from memory; if 2 people had exactly the same ranks and reputations, they should get exactly the same missions.

By and large, the rng is seeded at generation stage, so with the same inputs would we would get the same outputs.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Devari]

Hi there,

I don't have everything in front of me right now, but from memory; if 2 people had exactly the same ranks and reputations, they should get exactly the same missions.

By and large, the rng is seeded at generation stage, so with the same inputs would we would get the same outputs.

Thanks,
Dom

Thanks for explaining, that makes the mission generation process much clearer to me now.

 

[Monk]

Hi there,

I don't have everything in front of me right now, but from memory; if 2 people had exactly the same ranks and reputations, they should get exactly the same missions.

By and large, the rng is seeded at generation stage, so with the same inputs would we would get the same outputs.

Thanks,
Dom

Does progress along rank count? For example Duke @ 50% vs Duke @ 1%...how granular does it get?

 

[Dominic Corner]

Does progress along rank count? For example Duke @ 50% vs Duke @ 1%...how granular does it get?

Hi there,

No, just the actual rank.

And only profession ranks affect missions right now, not your ranks within the superpowers' military reserves.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Crank Larson]

And only profession ranks affect missions right now, not your ranks within the superpowers' military reserves.

And now it makes sense why passenger missions are so much more lucrative for me (I could probably have worked this out, I've just never thought about it )... I'm Exploration Elite, but in combat I'm only Expert, and trading Tycoon. I'm assuming that when I make Elite in the other ranks, the other missions will increase in value.

 

[AndyJ]

@Dominic - first of all, thank you for coming to the forum so regularly to answer questions about the missions.

I wonder if I could ask you about the "Founder or Elite" missions, as there only seems to be one type being generated these days, and only at Jameson's Memorial: "Sensitive Supply Operation".

There used to be around half a dozen of missions with this a rank-requirement, and potentially linked to "The Dark Wheel" and Raxxla, but they seemed to go missing in 1.5 beta when they were intentionally restricted to only appear at J.M.
Then with the mission board/template rework that arrived with The Engineers update, it sounds like they were not converted over at the time. (I asked about them in a Q&A and the response suggested there hadn't been time to add them)

AFAIK - The lost missions:
Obfuscated In The Outer Rim
The Silent Song Of The Spheres
Discrete Redistribution Agent Desired
Dark Wheel Seeks Diplomats For Discreet Delivery
What Was Lost Will Soon Be Found
Mastering the Maleficent

I've been trying to get some clarification on the status of these missions for quite a while now, so please can I ask you if they have been converted and are back in-game now, and if they should be appearing at Jameson's Memorial?

Thanks in advance for any information.

 

[sollisb]

A very interesting read... I wonder can someone explain; Why is it, say in Quince cuz it's easier to spot, does the mission board change so drastically?

Example; I login in Solo, and check the board and see 0 (zero) missions, then login in Open mode and see a screen full of missions for each faction?

if the missions are generated on the Adjudication server, surely some missions should have generated?

At other times, in solo I get missions and in Open i get an empty screen?

So as not to simply relate this to Quince, I saw this exact same behaviour when in Ceos/Sothis doing the Fed ranking. And again when doing the Quent/Palin garbage.


As a coder myself, the [design team] explanation just does not add up. From what I can make out, there is an over-reliance on randomness. #justsaying