Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery

It's not logical to accept things at face value without questioning them, mr Vulcan.

Because of all the reasons I mention in the past few pages.

If you look at the things that have been discovered actually in-game:

The in-game narrative seems to indicate a long-dormant and now resurgent Thargoid race that's just started to emerge in a new "reborn" state after laying the seeds for this rebirth after the last conflict with Humanity 50 years ago and is evaluating and testing humanity, the video seems to indicate a new class of ship (like we've been fighting the Asp Explorers and now the FDL's have come to play). That all makes sense and fits with every single piece of in-game lore recovered from all the various sites over the last 3+ years and every observation of their behaviours. They mimic, they scan, they seem to "play" with some people, attack others, they scoop up humans, they scan wrecks, etc. We know they rapidly evolve to counter us, so it's logical to assume they will evolve new ships and weapons just as we are.

And the book Premonition (I've not read OotD yet, just started it):

The Club narrative is of a Thargoid race that's been fighting a civil war (for presumably a while, since the Club has been manipulating things for decades) and one faction is on the run and is aiming to use humanity as a bullet shield as they escape from the more evil and aggressive other branch of the Thargoids. The secretive Club has known this for at least 50+ years and has been manipulating the entirety of Humanity into being ready for a war with the Klaxians. Events in the book towards the end even suggest some kind of NAP or ally status with the Thargoids (Wreaken has huge shipyards in Col70, and there's also apparently a giant fleet of Thargoids nearby, the fact that the Thargoids didn't attack the Wreaken shipyards hints at alliances and things, which then implies communication between elements of Humanity and Thargoids, etc.etc.etc.). That's not at all supported in the game narrative (since except for FSD we were completely unprepared), and doesn't mesh with anything that's been happening in-game, or at least not even nearly as well as the simpler explanation above. As I said before, it doesn't really work as a plot for the Thargoid civil war either if you look at their abilities actually in-game and all the stuff that's been happening in-game recently, read back some posts and I explore this further).

It seems obvious to me that there is definitely some secret sneaky stuff going on - like the prison transport that showed up in the Federation-controlled system where Blackmount Orbital is located. We know the Thargoids like to scoop up humans so this seems obviously like feeding them a whole load of people for sinister ends. The missions of project Exodus were one such example of off-books missions, but that's not surprising. We're still discovering secret missions that took place during WW2, so the idea that as a precaution against an unstoppable Thargoid (or other alien) attack of human space the richest groups would want an insurance policy is nothing surprising.

So, currently, the logical conclusion is of a resurgent Thargoid race who is rapidly adapting as they explore and encounter us again after we nearly destroyed them last time.

It's not logical, mr Vulcan, to give them factions or motivations or assume long-winded plots based on a few lines of dialogue from questionable sources in a novel that may not represent the truth of the situation. Just because characters in a novel call the Thargoids by other names doesn't mean that that's their name. Thargoids is a human name for them so it's sure they won't call themselves Thargoid. We don't actually even know for sure they're Insectoid (any more). I think it's still Lore that they were last time we saw them, but back then the ships were octagonal too so maybe they remade themselves as much as their ships! We've seen no evidence of them rushing or apparently fleeing, they seem to appear in a neat bubble around Merope, like they are just waking up and emerging from areas around there.

At some point we may absolutely see a different set of Thargoids appear, they may have different markings, or attack the Thargoids we currently see, etc. But until that happens, there's no basis to assume anything about them relating to factions and civil wars and naming those factions and discussing those things as if they're true and real, which a LOT of people have been doing lately.
It is logical though, because to question the lie in this case doesn't make sense. There is zero to be gained by telling a lie of two factions. Whether there's two factions or one unified race, The Clubs objectives remain the same. Whether there's two factions or one race, humanity needs to defend itself and try to survive. Just apply Pascal's Wager to the circumstances and the outcomes. Whether or not they're lying, and whether or not there actually are two factions, the end result is the same, so why tell the lie?

It might not be supported by in-game narrative, but they're different types of media so that's hardly surprising, one involving knowledge presented by and from people in a way that can't be in game. Likewise, presently nothing in game prevents the idea of two factions either.

They're true and real until such time as there is evidence to suggest otherwise. As this moment, there is none to counter two factions except speculation, and a logical reason to believe it's true.
 
Last edited:
Screen Capture after last frame of 2.4 video. After the thargoid ship is destroyed and the human ships try to escape with a pod and are intercepted by 2 thargoid ships that just jumped in.
This could be digital noise/artifact from FDEVs video encoding. I have enhanced the image to bring out as much detail as possible. Let me know if this means anything to anyone.

22339019_10212913627345707_3204529923803922757_o.jpg
 
Screen Capture after last frame of 2.4 video. After the thargoid ship is destroyed and the human ships try to escape with a pod and are intercepted by 2 thargoid ships that just jumped in.
This could be digital noise/artifact from FDEVs video encoding. I have enhanced the image to bring out as much detail as possible. Let me know if this means anything to anyone.


Looks like a windows desktop on crack.
 
It is logical though, because to question the lie in this case doesn't make sense. There is zero to be gained by telling a lie of two factions. Whether there's two factions or one unified race, The Clubs objectives remain the same. Whether there's two factions or one race, humanity needs to defend itself and try to survive. Just apply Pascal's Wager to the circumstances and the outcomes. Whether or not they're lying, and whether or not there actually are two factions, the end result is the same, so why tell the lie?

It might not be supported by in-game narrative, but they're different types of media so that's hardly surprising, one involving knowledge presented by and from people in a way that can't be in game. Likewise, presently nothing in game prevents the idea of two factions either.

They're true and real until such time as there is evidence to suggest otherwise. As this moment, there is none to counter two factions except speculation, and a logical reason to believe it's true.

I think I've made some good points as to why your point is incorrect already and I don't want to keep cycling around the same thing over and over. Time will reveal the truth one way or the other.
 
you ask if thargoids have territory but they dont thargoids just kill and kill and kill, there is a reason we have not stumbled upon another alien race is because chances are they wiped them out. As far as we know were the only race that has survived a thargoid attack to date. And there coming back for revenge
 
Well the vid implies a different type of Thargoid - be it a different 'branch' or just a different 'team' - the red surface detailing instantly marks them out as different - and the insta-attack after the jump-in is a departure from the behaviour we currently see, too.

Just saying, I've had multiple instant-attacks occur in NHSS recently. Empty cargohold, no weapons out.

Each time I jump in and the Thargoid is behind me. They don't scan me, just instantly pop out the Thargons and go red-ten on me.
 
Just saying, I've had multiple instant-attacks occur in NHSS recently. Empty cargohold, no weapons out.

Each time I jump in and the Thargoid is behind me. They don't scan me, just instantly pop out the Thargons and go red-ten on me.

Yes. They deploy thargons and go red. Do they attack? No. There warning you to back off. ive bene in over 100 NHSSs and let me tell you they do NOT attack on sight
 
There are some hazardous containers on a Black Flight comm relay.
I will compare those with the trailer. For now, my assumption is that they are to blame for destroying human ships with odd weapon, not Thargoids.
 
Last edited:
Just saying, I've had multiple instant-attacks occur in NHSS recently. Empty cargohold, no weapons out.

Each time I jump in and the Thargoid is behind me. They don't scan me, just instantly pop out the Thargons and go red-ten on me.

Yes. They deploy thargons and go red. Do they attack? No. There warning you to back off. ive bene in over 100 NHSSs and let me tell you they do NOT attack on sight

Have to side with the cookster on this one - haven't come across any thargoids going red unless I get too close. Video of it happening would be interesting.
 
I think I've made some good points as to why your point is incorrect already and I don't want to keep cycling around the same thing over and over. Time will reveal the truth one way or the other.
Everything you've said as evidence is a supposed incongruity between description of different factions, and action in-game which can be explained in multiple different way from both sides of our argument, but you haven't explained why they would be lying which is really my central argument.

We know they've been manipulating a build up in forces to fight back, we know they have back up plans to flee the bubble if fighting back doesn't work and they've tried hard to keep that a secret. What I really want from you in an explanation of how a supposed lie about different factions helps their cause.
 
Everything you've said as evidence is a supposed incongruity between description of different factions, and action in-game which can be explained in multiple different way from both sides of our argument, but you haven't explained why they would be lying which is really my central argument.

We know they've been manipulating a build up in forces to fight back, we know they have back up plans to flee the bubble if fighting back doesn't work and they've tried hard to keep that a secret. What I really want from you in an explanation of how a supposed lie about different factions helps their cause.

Because it creates and enemy where none exist. They've clearly convinced Bill Turner that it's true, and used that to get him to make the zero-wake FSD and presumably other things, who knows how many others have been told the same lie to get them to Co-operate against this organised, deadly force imminently heading out way.

When the club reveals the whole thing with the factions and civil war and stuff Bill Turner is in the room. He clearly already knows. The Club are expecting Salome and the heroes to be killed right there, but they need to continue the charade for Bill Turner to remain on-side. So they do this bond-style reveal, it's not for Salome and Co, who they expect to die right there, it's for Turner.

Rebecca's secrets are nothing about the supposed Thargoid civil war and all that junk, they are about the deaths of the Exodus crews and all those types of plans that were hidden.

The Club, by every admission in the novel, lie to manipulate. Having a powerful enemy to fight is historically a huge motivator, how much leverage have they gained from that?

Saying "we think Thargoids might still be out there, though we've not seen or heard from them for quite a while, we suspect they may be dormant" is not a good motivator. Saying "oh the Thargoids we met before were the peaceful ones, there's an even worse lot that's coming and we need you, important person, to help us prepare, but it's secret because, reasons, so don't tell anyone" is a classic manipulation trick.

Edit: wrote that while in a rush. Forgot to say: We have no real evidence that the Thargoids are hostile, at least not aggressively hostile towards us. At best, from actual field-research we can say they are typically aggressive in defence and otherwise they seem to pretty much ignore us.

This concept of fictionalised hostile Thargoids seems to be manufactured. Similarly the early "attacks" by Thargoids could well have been entirely staged. There's no direct evidence of Thargoid aggression, only reports of unprovoked attacks and strange exotic weapon damage. But we've had Thargoid tech for a long time, it's not inconceivable that someone made weapons that resemble Thargoid damage, maybe even staged attacked (assuming it was the federation, who seem to have orchestrated this whole thing from the start).

It seems more likely that the shadowy conspiracy is about pushing us into a war with the Thargoids as fast as possible. If you were someone who felt that humanities only means of surviving was to kill the Thargoids before they can return to full strength, it seems like this is exactly the way to go about it. And still, none of this requires or even suggests the versions of Thargoids presented by The Club.
 
Last edited:
Just saying, I've had multiple instant-attacks occur in NHSS recently. Empty cargohold, no weapons out.

Each time I jump in and the Thargoid is behind me. They don't scan me, just instantly pop out the Thargons and go red-ten on me.

I've never been insta-attacked.. yet.. but I have been attacked without (proper) provocation in instances where a new Thargoid jumps into the NHSS, practically on top of me and uses its pulse to disable my ship and eventually attack me.

What I assume is happening is that after they jump in, they park very close, inside the aggro range, and since my ship is still disabled, I can't back off before the aggro timer goes off.. then they start shooting.. I've managed to escape every time so far, but just barely.
 
Because it creates and enemy where none exist. They've clearly convinced Bill Turner that it's true, and used that to get him to make the zero-wake FSD and presumably other things, who knows how many others have been told the same lie to get them to Co-operate against this organised, deadly force imminently heading out way.

When the club reveals the whole thing with the factions and civil war and stuff Bill Turner is in the room. He clearly already knows. The Club are expecting Salome and the heroes to be killed right there, but they need to continue the charade for Bill Turner to remain on-side. So they do this bond-style reveal, it's not for Salome and Co, who they expect to die right there, it's for Turner.

Rebecca's secrets are nothing about the supposed Thargoid civil war and all that junk, they are about the deaths of the Exodus crews and all those types of plans that were hidden.

The Club, by every admission in the novel, lie to manipulate. Having a powerful enemy to fight is historically a huge motivator, how much leverage have they gained from that?

Saying "we think Thargoids might still be out there, though we've not seen or heard from them for quite a while, we suspect they may be dormant" is not a good motivator. Saying "oh the Thargoids we met before were the peaceful ones, there's an even worse lot that's coming and we need you, important person, to help us prepare, but it's secret because, reasons, so don't tell anyone" is a classic manipulation trick.

Edit: wrote that while in a rush. Forgot to say: We have no real evidence that the Thargoids are hostile, at least not aggressively hostile towards us. At best, from actual field-research we can say they are typically aggressive in defence and otherwise they seem to pretty much ignore us.

This concept of fictionalised hostile Thargoids seems to be manufactured. Similarly the early "attacks" by Thargoids could well have been entirely staged. There's no direct evidence of Thargoid aggression, only reports of unprovoked attacks and strange exotic weapon damage. But we've had Thargoid tech for a long time, it's not inconceivable that someone made weapons that resemble Thargoid damage, maybe even staged attacked (assuming it was the federation, who seem to have orchestrated this whole thing from the start).

It seems more likely that the shadowy conspiracy is about pushing us into a war with the Thargoids as fast as possible. If you were someone who felt that humanities only means of surviving was to kill the Thargoids before they can return to full strength, it seems like this is exactly the way to go about it. And still, none of this requires or even suggests the versions of Thargoids presented by The Club.
Sorry, but none of that explains the lie.

Why invent two factions when you can just invent a hostile enemy full stop?

Why have back up plans unless you know they're hostile? Why create a conspiracy with the Rift? Rebecca's secrets are precisely about the Thargoid's, and The Club preparing areas outside of the bubble to fall back to in case we couldn't win.

We do have evidence they're hostile. We have a prison ship whose logs indicated they didn't attack, but were still attacked in turn.

They lie to manipulate for a reason, which is the survival of mankind as a whole. The two factions makes no sense to lie about.As for good motivators, what they're actually going along the lines of is "We know we're out there, we know they're coming back and we know they're going to destroy us unless we do something". Your lie idea isn't a better motivator.

All in all, there's no reason to invent a fictional two faction civil war. If your aims were to motivate a defence, you don't need to make a lie more complicated than it needs to be, which is why I'm saying it's illogical to believe it's a lie. That lie gains nothing for them, where as the basic truth (we could be boned as a species) already does what you're saying the lie is needed for.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but none of that explains the lie.

Why invent two factions when you can just invent a hostile enemy full stop?

Why have back up plans unless you know they're hostile? Why create a conspiracy with the Rift? Rebecca's secrets are precisely about the Thargoid's, and The Club preparing areas outside of the bubble to fall back to in case we couldn't win.

We do have evidence they're hostile. We have a prison ship whose logs indicated they didn't attack, but were still attacked in turn.

They lie to manipulate for a reason, which is the survival of mankind as a whole. The two factions makes no sense to lie about.As for good motivators, what they're actually going along the lines of is "We know we're out there, we know they're coming back and we know they're going to destroy us unless we do something". Your lie idea isn't a better motivator.

All in all, there's no reason to invent a fictional two faction civil war. If your aims were to motivate a defence, you don't need to make a lie more complicated than it needs to be, which is why I'm saying it's illogical to believe it's a lie. That lie gains nothing for them, where as the basic truth (we could be boned as a species) already does what you're saying the lie is needed for.

Sure it does. As I said, two factions because they claim one is not as warlike, maybe even peaceful, so that explains away why they aren't attacking us and silences any naysayers. If you just said "all Thargoids are evil baby eating monsters" then the first Thargoid that didn't eat a baby would prove you wrong wouldn't it.

I didn't say the Rift wasn't to do with the Thargoids (exactly the opposite actually) I said it wasn't to do with the factions and the civil war stuff.

Also, until recently, we didn't know the Thargoids were coming back. The logs of project Equinox prove that, in fact that project was shut down precisely because it hadn't found signs of Thargoids returning. It was covered up because that doesn't fit the lie about the mightly and evil Klaxians chasing the Orserians and all that junk.(conjecture, but it fits mostly)

The basic truth is that the Thargoids were indeed gone, for all practical purposes, and the club needed to invent a Thargoid threat.

Edit: oh and no, we don't have evidence they're hostile. We have a lot of circumstantial evidence they're hostile in certain situations. We have been stealing their stuff and blasting them with Guardian tech weaponry for a while now. If the roles were reversed I'm pretty sure we'd already have carpet bombed their installations by this point. So attacking a few ships is quite restrained.
 
Last edited:
The system the Gnosis is in (HIP 18778) does it have any significance at all?? If not then I'll do a search of the two landable planets.

There is an unknown structure I think on the planet the gnosis is orbiting. As far as I know there isn't any thing else, unless somebody found something and I missed it.
 
Sure it does. As I said, two factions because they claim one is not as warlike, maybe even peaceful, so that explains away why they aren't attacking us and silences any naysayers. If you just said "all Thargoids are evil baby eating monsters" then the first Thargoid that didn't eat a baby would prove you wrong wouldn't it.

I didn't say the Rift wasn't to do with the Thargoids (exactly the opposite actually) I said it wasn't to do with the factions and the civil war stuff.

Also, until recently, we didn't know the Thargoids were coming back. The logs of project Equinox prove that, in fact that project was shut down precisely because it hadn't found signs of Thargoids returning. It was covered up because that doesn't fit the lie about the mightly and evil Klaxians chasing the Orserians and all that junk.(conjecture, but it fits mostly)

The basic truth is that the Thargoids were indeed gone, for all practical purposes, and the club needed to invent a Thargoid threat.

Edit: oh and no, we don't have evidence they're hostile. We have a lot of circumstantial evidence they're hostile in certain situations. We have been stealing their stuff and blasting them with Guardian tech weaponry for a while now. If the roles were reversed I'm pretty sure we'd already have carpet bombed their installations by this point. So attacking a few ships is quite restrained.

You are looking for the wrong liar.
Oresrians have been mentioned by several independant sources. They are the Thargoids. It's just a different name.

All info on the Klaxians do on the other hand seem to stem from one source. Namely the Oresrians.

If someone are feeding us false info it's the Oresrians, not 'the Club'.

'The Club' wouldn't try to trick Bill Turner, in this matter. He is a Turner and probably knows more than they do.
He even has a corrosion damaged Quest class in his basement. I bet it has interesting comm logs. :)
 
You are looking for the wrong liar.
Oresrians have been mentioned by several independant sources. They are the Thargoids. It's just a different name.

All info on the Klaxians do on the other hand seem to stem from one source. Namely the Oresrians.

If someone are feeding us false info it's the Oresrians, not 'the Club'.

'The Club' wouldn't try to trick Bill Turner, in this matter. He is a Turner and probably knows more than they do.
He even has a corrosion damaged Quest class in his basement. I bet it has interesting comm logs. :)

Please can you supply these sources? AFAIK it's just two of the novels and the information in those are from what I would call questionable sources.

You're right, a Turner may know more. But he's not The Turner, he's a son (unconfirmed), and therefore may not have any special knowledge. Plus, what he probably knows is simply what we know from INRA in FFE, since that's the last time we saw Thargoids in actual game Lore.

The quest class ship is just a nod to FFE and in ED lore doesn't mean anything, certainly not proof of anything (though I'd love it if they did introduce that into the narrative!)

No-one in game, including experts in the field of xenobiology and Thargoids (like Palin) has ever mentioned factions or any names for them other than Thargoids. Even DB himself only ever calls them Thargoids.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom