FDevs does everything have to be a grind?

[Vardaugas]

What is the definition of "grind" anyway, from a gameplay perspective?
What gameplay mechanics are there that are not "grind"?
How much of a game (or what kind of a game) would you have left if you restrict its design to not "grind" gameplay mechanics?

Maybe agreeing to some common terms and definitions may make this discussion more constructive.

 

[M00ka]

What is the definition of "grind" anyway, from a gameplay perspective?
What gameplay mechanics are there that are not "grind"?
How much of a game (or what kind of a game) would you have left if you restrict its design to not "grind" gameplay mechanics?

Maybe agreeing to some common terms and definitions may make this discussion more constructive.

Going by some of the comments here, grind is any action you have to perform more than once !

 

[Sentience]

Two minutes mining you will find both iron and sulphur, in any planetary ring.

Two minutes of mining is enough to make anyone run away screaming.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What is the definition of "grind" anyway, from a gameplay perspective?
What gameplay mechanics are there that are not "grind"?
How much of a game (or what kind of a game) would you have left if you restrict its design to not "grind" gameplay mechanics?

Maybe agreeing to some common terms and definitions may make this discussion more constructive.

This is from wikipedia:

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs where it can be advantageous to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level quickly and to unlock content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, often feature grinding as well. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features such as level progression or additional items.

 

[Enderby]

Some people like grind. Embrace it. But, such is their admiration that they can arrive at the mistaken belief that the thing they enjoy so much is not really a grind at all.

I don’t think anyone could, with a straight face, deny that ED has a lot of grind.

We must learn to live with it.

 

[Winterwalker]

Two minutes of mining is enough to make anyone run away screaming.

Obviously not listening to enough soccer on the radio!

(Just imagine it's zero-G soccer if you like 'mersion - Man City, No-G Premiere Champs in 3304 ??! Could be ...)

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Some people like grind. Embrace it. But, such is their admiration that they can arrive at the mistaken belief that the thing they enjoy so much is not really a grind at all.

I enjoy my life a bit. It is a grind. So I enjoy grind? Maybe. Who cares?

If your point was that people are wrong for enjoying playing ED....why? Why it is so important?

 

[Enderby]

Oh no. I enjoy ED - often in small doses, sometimes larger ones.

My point was that the grind seems to be an undeniable part of ED.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I think some of the materials collection stuff needs a look at, it should be skill based not RnG.
Let me go prospecting for an iron node on a planet but when i find one let me fill my boots with the stuff.
Need mechanical components, let me use a mining laser on an old shipwreck and cut them out 20 at a time etc etc.
Finding the stuff should be a skill, not an rng exercise.

Also the problem with being an Elite pilot is that you don't have to be elite... i mean it should probably be renamed Persistence: Dangerous because all 3 elite ranks are volume over quality. Not that i want them to turn ranks into some kind of weekly tournament system.

I love the game, i think credits are earnt too fast but some other things are arbitrarily slow so there is definitely some balancing still to do with the Beyond 'season'.

This is exactly how it should be. Give us more interesting tools to get the stuff we want that rely on us playing the game rather than relying on RNG

As for Elite rank - pointless. They're worthless in fact and do nothing other than tell everyone you've been in the game for ages.

How can you be "Elite" in an RNG game anyway?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Some people enjoy what others feel it is a grind. There is no point in fighting each other, though. That's not how the decision about game design is made.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Some people like grind. Embrace it. But, such is their admiration that they can arrive at the mistaken belief that the thing they enjoy so much is not really a grind at all.

Not really. It seems to me that you do not even know what grind is. You seem to think that if you do an activity more than once it equates to a grind. Sorry but it does not.

What does equate to a grind is doing the same activity in the same way again and again and again in a row, to get to your goal. For example LOTRO, when you level up, the only option is to fight mobs, you quickly work out the most efficient way of killing a mob and do the same thing again and again and again until you get to the next level. And you need to get to the next level to go to the next part of the game, there are no choices it is just forced progression.

That is grind.

Of course you can do that in ED, like doing the same trade run continously to get credit for the next ship, but that is a choice you have chosen to do. The game doesn't force you down that path as there are no traditional levels, none of the ships are needed, you may want them but how you go about getting them is down to you, you chose the path/journey.

In ED there is no forced progression, progression it all on you, not the game.

 

[Enderby]

Yes it sounds like ED to me sorry

But as i say i enjoy it

 

[Brrokk]

... For example LOTRO, when you level up, the only option is to fight mobs, you quickly work out the most efficient way of killing a mob and do the same thing again and again and again until you get to the next level. And you need to get to the next level to go to the next part of the game, there are no choices it is just forced progression....

A fellow Middle-Earther - hi!

I guess you're thinking back some years for that example. These days in LOTRO we have the opposite problem: it's not possible to do all the quests even once only because you out-level the area you're in too fast. I resorted to using the "Stone of the Tortoise" (a pocket item from the Store which prevents XP gain) on my last couple of alt characters.

As far as grind goes, though, I understand what is meant but I never blame the game for it. A game is something I choose to do for entertainment; it's not a compulsory activity. Claiming that the game made me do something I didn't want to do would feel like not taking responsibility for my own behaviour.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I said the same on Reddit and ended up -11 on the down votes. I don't care about the votes, but I do wonder about the mental state of people who do something they hate when it's supposed to be enjoyable. It's like an electronic form of self-flagellation.

What I don't get is that I've never heard of a good reason why people are grinding, except for PvP maybe.

Even then, I don't consider PvP a good reason. I've participated in numerous PvP tournaments that offer "classic" categories, with no engineering and a standard, cheap ship, with four digit rebuys, and I'm not generally a fan of combat in general.

 

[Jex =TE=]

In the end my issue is more with the time sink it takes to make money and gain materials than things like rep and status. It literally took me 6 months of all my playtime just to save up for a cutter and i feel like its going to be another 6 months before i can compete with others in Open Play.

Unless you have G5 rolls on your modules, you won't be able to compete in Open.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The grind makes up for the lack of content in this game.

This game consists of 70% of the time flying in straight line waiting for the countdown to finish, 10% praying for rngesus, 10% looking at the loading screen and 10% doing what you actually want.

We must be playing different games then. I spend probably 90% of my time in Elite: Dangerous having fun flying my ship. I fly as fast as possible, threading the various needles in the game. Sometimes, I even get paid to do it!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It is a bit paradox that people go nuts with grinding best ships and gear in ED.

I just log in and enjoy pure bliss and travelling around and shipping cargo, and doing missions. Then I log off and I feel like visiting other life which is full of space, pirate attacks and strange NPC characters.

I guess is pure point that I play for totally different reasons and that's why I don't feel grind, because I never engage in it. Yes, I wanted a Cobra, but I never set it a goal. I got Hauler and was surprised by amount of fun I squeezed out of it. Spent huge amount of time before moving to Cobra. Now Cobra is just my ship and I don't expect it to leave it for like considerable amount of time.

I just enjoy every moment there. And that's what I ED wanted to be. I always know that if ED will be just rush to Anaconda I will never like game.

Thankfully, it never was.

 

[Aashenfox]

Not really. It seems to me that you do not even know what grind is. You seem to think that if you do an activity more than once it equates to a grind. Sorry but it does not.

What does equate to a grind is doing the same activity in the same way again and again and again in a row, to get to your goal. For example LOTRO, when you level up, the only option is to fight mobs, you quickly work out the most efficient way of killing a mob and do the same thing again and again and again until you get to the next level. And you need to get to the next level to go to the next part of the game, there are no choices it is just forced progression.

That is grind.

Of course you can do that in ED, like doing the same trade run continously to get credit for the next ship, but that is a choice you have chosen to do. The game doesn't force you down that path as there are no traditional levels, none of the ships are needed, you may want them but how you go about getting them is down to you, you chose the path/journey.

In ED there is no forced progression, progression it all on you, not the game.

Indeed, for me a grind is when I continue doing something AFTER I already got bored of it, just to accomplish an arbitrary goal. I do it sometimes, but only if I'm really close to the goal. If not, I take a break and come back to it later (if ever).

But, that activity BEFORE I get bored of it, is not grind, it's gameplay. I rarely 'grind' by that definition, I'm too lazy, but as I've said before, there are plenty of routes to my goals, that I do not need to focus on only one activity.

 

[Old Duck]

Getting to Elite = Grind

I just take a sticky-note, write "ELITE" on it, and post it on my monitor over the spot that shows my ratings. It's not quite as rewarding as earning it like everyone else, but at least I didn't have to grind for it

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Grind is only grind if it's boring and repetitive, and progress is slow.
Admittedly, achieving some things in ED require hard grind (mostly PowerPlay).

Everything else can be achieved via normal gameplay.

It's entirely up to you if you chose to do 1 thing over and over to achieve your goal.

I personally try to multitask, even if it's less efficient, it's usually more fun.

Although, there's only so many missions you can do for rank, before you burn out. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead