Proposal Discussion Possible Solution to Open/Solo Play Issue

Revamp

R
Forgive me if this has been suggested before, I couldn't find a similar thread. How would you feel if:

Open-play character save files were completely separate from solo and private group character saves. I.E. you would not be able to haul your way into an Anaconda in solo only to take that Anaconda into open-play in an attempt to kill other players. However you could still play the game by yourself or with friends without the threat of being ganked.

The reason why the current phasing selection system is an issue:

It reduces the number of meaningful interactions between players and makes open-play a one dimensional battleground where the vast majority of players are geared and looking to kill one another. Here are some examples of cool player interactions that are NOT going to take place as a result of the current phasing selection system:

  • Traders hiring mercenaries to escort their hauler through a dangerous sector.
  • Pirates identifying popular trade routes and interdicting haulers to steal their cargo.
  • Pirates raiding miners in an asteroid field.
  • Mercenaries hiding in an asteroid field in an attempt to intercept pirate raiders.

I'd like to point out that I am not trying to make Elite a less hospitable game, I am just of the belief that pirates, mercenaries and bounty hunters should be making choices about their actions and play styles as a result of in game consequences like local security and not as a result of a player phasing system.

I am super impressed with Elite but I think a lot of its potential as a player driven game goes down the toilet with the current system that incentivizes players to gear up in solo mode and only play in open-play if they are ready and looking for a fight.
 

JosiahD

JosiahD
Sorry but the ability to switch between all, private group and solo online is by design and as promoted during the kickstarter - there is no problem to solve as this is not primarily a pvp game.

Now, solo offline is different matter though - is that what you were thinking of?
 

Roobarb

Roobarb
Solo (offline) save games won't be online compatible. So as the previous poster states, there is no problem.
 

Revamp

R
I am of course talking about solo (online), if the community is cool with people farming in solo (online) and fighting in open play than there is no problem. I was just expecting a multitude of gameplay experiences in open play, not just a battleground which is without a doubt what open-play will be. If you think haulers are going to be floating around open play you are kidding yourself.
 

Rhaedas

Rhaedas
Revamp said:
I am of course talking about solo (online), if the community is cool with people farming in solo (online) and fighting in open play than there is no problem. I was just expecting a multitude of gameplay experiences in open play, not just a battleground which is without a doubt what open-play will be. If you think haulers are going to be floating around open play you are kidding yourself.
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You're making an assumption that solo play against just NPCs is easier. It might end up down the road the opposite, as at least in multiplayer you can make allies and call for their assistance in time of need, in many ways.
 

cpbtrading

cpbtrading
Revamp said:
If you think haulers are going to be floating around open play you are kidding yourself.
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Not really, I am floating around in a hauler, in open play. Just think that you have to try and keep your wits about you, plus keep a good amount of credits in reserve. There is no doubt, I will need to buy it back again at some stage, after getting whooped. :eek:

But at the moment its only temp, it will get wiped back to a sidewinder sooner or later, as the game progresses I would think.:eek:

For now its just fun, when the game is out proper, then armed escort perhaps.:D
 

Zvanya

Z
Revamp said:
I am of course talking about solo (online), if the community is cool with people farming in solo (online) and fighting in open play than there is no problem. I was just expecting a multitude of gameplay experiences in open play, not just a battleground which is without a doubt what open-play will be. If you think haulers are going to be floating around open play you are kidding yourself.
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It has happened as you describe before. When Ultima Online split all the shards and made trammel you could go back and forth between the PvP and carebear mirrors. The PvP shards were empty. But I don't think it will happen like that here. I think the majority will play in all players, hauler or not. Elite will provide more room for players than any game previously. I think that will make a big difference in the PvP equation. We have a new situation here.
 

Commander Edison

Commander Edison
Zvanya said:
It has happened as you describe before. When Ultima Online split all the shards and made trammel you could go back and forth between the PvP and carebear mirrors. The PvP shards were empty. But I don't think it will happen like that here. I think the majority will play in all players, hauler or not. Elite will provide more room for players than any game previously. I think that will make a big difference in the PvP equation. We have a new situation here.
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This. I've done some (very primative) maths in one of the other threads on this topic, and it looks like if ED is as, or more , popular than EVE ever was then there'll still be more systems just in human space than players online. That's before you take into accout the remaining 99.99% of the galaxy and explorers, etc.

The devs are on record as saying that PvP will be "rare", and "the vast majority of your interactions will be with NPCs". We can't be certain of how these mechanics will work out, that's why we're testing, but the devs design intentions are to allow group switching. The evidence at this point, obviously subject to change, suggests that PvP will have a negligible to zero effect on player risk across the groups.
 
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Hermit

Hermit
I can understand why there's an online solo game in this standard beta, because there aren't that many systems in there yet, and there's the possibility that things could get crowded in the open online game. Generally, though, it is a bad idea to cross-over assets for the two.

When the main game gets going, we'll have a whole galaxy of systems to explore, and it's been said that human player encounters would be rarer, so less risk of being ganked. But that slight risk would still be there that you would bump into a nasty player, or a group of them laying in wait for you. I feel that risk is important for the game to help give it an edge. A full online solo game removes that risk. Yes, there'll be AI opponents, but they're not really the same.

The online solo game, if kept, risks becoming the Achilles heel of the game and a focus of criticism. The last thing we want is for others to call this a "carebear" space sim because of it :( It's bad enough that Star Citizen has it's PvP slider, but you can understand that with it's limited systems and crowded paying area, but having a final tandem solo version for this one with crossover assets is alot worse.

Elite won't need anything of the sort as it's massive scale should easily allow both solo and multiplayers to co-exist within the same game with little or no problem.

The only solo Elite Dangerous version that there should be when the final game is released is an offline, unconnected one.
 
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CaptainKremmen

CaptainKremmen
Revamp said:
I.E. you would not be able to haul your way into an Anaconda in solo only to take that Anaconda into open-play in an attempt to kill other players.
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Why is there a problem?

I don't have a problem with you, or anyone, flying an Anaconda that you obtained in solo play. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me.


I'm not sure I understand why anyone thinks it makes a difference.


Is there some idea that an "online all" galaxy is full of rough, tough hombres and mujeres who thrill and challenge you at every turn? That it's some kind of gladiatorial theatre, where the only ones who survive are those with the EYE OF THE TIGER?...cue the 80's music! Dan! Dan dan dan! Dan dan dan! Dan dan DAAAAAAAAAA...

And that a "solo" galaxy is some dull, grey, vapid existence where the meek and mild can fly about without a care in the world, trading in their pulse lasers for non-lethal beanbag guns, shipping containers of Beanie Bears from A to B, and making a billion credits by tea-time?


Please, stop and think for a minute!

Systems with high police presence and strong governments = Safer. Irrespective of "players" being present or not.

Systems with low or no police presence and weak/absent governments = Riskier. Again, irrespective of "players" being present or not.


It's not all about the other players! FD are building a galaxy to live in.

It's not a competition to see who gets to 100,000 CR (or a million, or a billion) first.


This thread is entitled, "Possible Solution to Open/Solo Play Issue".

What "Issue"? There is no burning "issue" here...


Perhaps, if you are looking to assist FD in balancing stuff, open discussions about...


- NPC skill levels
- NPC numbers (single attackers, multiple coordinated)
- Hostile NPC spawning frequency in Anarchy systems (remember old Elite? It was ruthless)

etc.


This week, we got NPC activity around stations for the first time. So it begins...

There's a lot to balance, but please, stop the myopic focus on other "players". Give FD feedback and ideas about the actual galaxy...
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
CaptainKremmen said:
Give FD feedback and ideas about the actual galaxy...
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Well spoken Kremmen.

--

Issues ... I will give you some issues .. Stations ... There, I said it .. God damn they slaughter you faster than I can press J and it was a genuine mistake .. was watching on holotv some news footage of an outbreak of Lavian-Flu and fumbled with the controls, accidentally shooting the station but oh no ... "Not on my watch" squarks the comms channel and quicker than you can blink I was vaporised ... I can still see the wagging finger and pursed lips :eek:
 

Hermit

Hermit
So what is the point of having this as a multuplayer game if everyone prefers a solo one?

It's the unpredictability of other players and their egos that adds spice to online games. But like I said, Elite will have a massive play area and both good and bad players will easily co-exist within it without much worry.
 

Apocrypha

A
Revamp said:
Forgive me if this has been suggested before, I couldn't find a similar thread.
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Hi Revamp. Most of the discussions about this have been happening in the Beta Discussion Forum. With the launch of Standard Beta there's been a huge influx of new players and new forum posters so threads disappear from the front page very quickly.

Here's a few threads covering this issue from just the last 24 hours:

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29368
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29343
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29601
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29164

One thing I've noticed is that there is a clear majority of forum posters strongly in favour of the existing system, i.e. unhindered swapping between Open, Friends Only and Solo Play.
 

Apocrypha

A
Hermit said:
Ah, I see the "carebear" criticism is already being used :(
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Heh, yeah, to be expected really. I think one of the problems is that so many people come to E-D with preconceptions about what kind of game it is and are confused because it's really not like other MMO's.

I also think that a lot of people see players in a very black & white way - there is an idea that all players are either Griefers or Carebears (both equally inaccurate and unhelpful terms IMO), with nothing in-between.

The reality is that many, many people lie somewhere between those two extremes! I love some PvE, some relaxing hauling of goods around the galaxy, some shooting of NPCs, but sometimes I also love to battle against or with other players! E-D's multiplayer system supports those choices perfectly.
 

Hermit

Hermit
I still can't understand why an online solo mode would be needed on final release with a gameplay area that'll cover 400 billion systems. Sensitive players wouldn't have much to worry about from others. It'll be like one person complaining that they can smell a fart from the other side of the world :p

Like I said, if it became an offline single player game, then that would be good to have.
 
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