Ships Type-10 Released!

[Stealthie]

Perfect! Thank you Cmdr!
Was just booting up to sell my Conda for a T10 and use it as a trader anyway.

The only "problem" with using a T10 as a trade-ship is that you'll have to make the conscious decision to not get into any combat with it because, if you do, you'll start down the spiral of upgrades/compromises that'll end with realising you should be flying an Annie instead.
Course, it's on you to make that decision and stick to it.

I tried to do the same thing with my Cutter.
I D-rated everything, fitted the smallest possible PP, installed puny little weapons and a modest shield with the intention that I'd see off any small attackers and just run away from anything larger.
Trouble is, the game spawns opponents depending on your ship and, as a result, it's always things like Annies and Clippers which come after you and you have no choice other than running away - which isn't fun.
In the end, I just relented, picked out some decent weapons, upgraded modules to support them, spending a heap of credits in the process, and now I've got a ship that still fulfills it's primary role as a cargo ship but it's also got the teeth to defend itself when required.

Which is where you'll run into problems with the T10.
Because it's so big, and heavy, the only shield that's reliable for combat is a C8 (or, presumably, a C7 prismatic) supported by a bunch of boosters and that's going to cut into your cargo space, require that you fit a C8 PP and cost a heap of credits.

It doesn't have to be a problem, of course. If you're determined to avoid combat completely, you'll be fine.


Also, on the bright side, my T10 is currently armored up the wazoo and fitted with all the guns and it's still capable of 25Ly jumps, which is a distance my Corvette could only dream of achieving.
Right now, I'd still prefer to take my 'vette into combat because it's more agile and it's got weapons that I can rely on to get the job done.
If I can find a similarly useful weapons loadout for the T10, though, it won't be easy to decide which is more useful.
And, if the combat requires travel to get there, the T10 might even be the ship of choice.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

So are the best players in the game.

These commanderds are those whose statistics when combining Trade, Exploring and Combat together, whose average are above everyone elses in the game, ships sizes are simply irrelevant to this and Only FD know who they are no one else.

 

[DukeIronHand]

The only "problem" with using a T10 as a trade-ship is that you'll have to make the conscious decision to not get into any combat with it because, if you do, you'll start down the spiral of upgrades/compromises that'll end with realising you should be flying an Annie instead.
Course, it's on you to make that decision and stick to it.

I tried to do the same thing with my Cutter.
I D-rated everything, fitted the smallest possible PP, installed puny little weapons and a modest shield with the intention that I'd see off any small attackers and just run away from anything larger.
Trouble is, the game spawns opponents depending on your ship and, as a result, it's always things like Annies and Clippers which come after you and you have no choice other than running away - which isn't fun.
In the end, I just relented, picked out some decent weapons, upgraded modules to support them, spending a heap of credits in the process, and now I've got a ship that still fulfills it's primary role as a cargo ship but it's also got the teeth to defend itself when required.

Which is where you'll run into problems with the T10.
Because it's so big, and heavy, the only shield that's reliable for combat is a C8 (or, presumably, a C7 prismatic) supported by a bunch of boosters and that's going to cut into your cargo space, require that you fit a C8 PP and cost a heap of credits.

It doesn't have to be a problem, of course. If you're determined to avoid combat completely, you'll be fine.


Also, on the bright side, my T10 is currently armored up the wazoo and fitted with all the guns and it's still capable of 25Ly jumps, which is a distance my Corvette could only dream of achieving.
Right now, I'd still prefer to take my 'vette into combat because it's more agile and it's got weapons that I can rely on to get the job done.
If I can find a similarly useful weapons loadout for the T10, though, it won't be easy to decide which is more useful.
And, if the combat requires travel to get there, the T10 might even be the ship of choice.

Avoiding combat is not a problem for me. I don't like it a bit.
Oddly perhaps, since I do everything else in the game, I find combat dull and repetitive. Think I am still burned out by it from my new guy days 2-3 years ago where that was the bulk of what I did in-game. Tried it a couple times since and quickly regret it.
And avoiding a fight can be fun too - least to me. And the T10 looks like it is going to make a jim-dandy trader.

 

[Stealthie]

Avoiding combat is not a problem for me. I don't like it a bit.
Oddly perhaps, since I do everything else in the game, I find combat dull and repetitive. Think I am still burned out by it from my new guy days 2-3 years ago where that was the bulk of what I did in-game. Tried it a couple times since and quickly regret it.
And avoiding a fight can be fun too - least to me. And the T10 looks like it is going to make a jim-dandy trader.

Dunno if it was in this thread or another one but I already said; if you have the willpower to do it, buying a T10 and equipping it as a single-minded trade-ship is definitely a good way to end up with a "T9+"
Just pretend you're outfitting a T9, apply lightweight mod's to all the main core modules, run it off a C6 PP and, with the C7 FSD, you'll effectively have a T9 that can jump 37Ly. [up]

 

[kilon]

I tried to do the same thing with my Cutter.
I D-rated everything, fitted the smallest possible PP, installed puny little weapons and a modest shield with the intention that I'd see off any small attackers and just run away from anything larger.
Trouble is, the game spawns opponents depending on your ship and, as a result, it's always things like Annies and Clippers which come after you and you have no choice other than running away - which isn't fun.
In the end, I just relented, picked out some decent weapons, upgraded modules to support them, spending a heap of credits in the process, and now I've got a ship that still fulfills it's primary role as a cargo ship but it's also got the teeth to defend itself when required.

I dont think this is a good idea, you take a shield orientated ship and make it weaker. Cutter is an amazingly powerful tank. You need a powerful powerplant for big shield cell and at least 6C Bi Wave. Prismatic may seem bigger but they are actually smaller when you take into account the regeneration rate of the shield and how long it will be staying up. If jump range is your concern even a Grade 1 FSD range blueprint should be enough to improve your jump with minor sacrificies.

I never run away from Cippers and Anacondas, I melt them away. Not even Corvettes can provide a challange. I reverski the hell out of them, let them feel confident having 2 huge guns. My shield finds them funny. Cutter is the Hulk of Elite.

What I am running away from ?

A wing of 3 Eagles and one FDL. Now that is really terror for the Cutter because they are practically uncatchable , they will have you under 24/7 fire so even your super large shield will dry out much sooner and even if you have a fighter it can only attack one of them at a time and they are as agile and as strong as it is. I never lost my Cutter to an Anaconda or Corvette but I lost my Cutter two times becase I underestimated the power in numbers, it costed me 26 mil each time. Now I just run or at least I try to shoot down the small ones before the 15 second window they give you run out. Shoot them point blank in the face I can take down one the fight starts , another one I send my fighter as its only target, I attack the third eagle, let FDL hit me and as soon as all Eagles are dead I then concetrate my ship and the fighter on the FDL. Is still quite challenging.

Guess when are spawned.... The most difficult missions. So the game is smart enough to know how to deal with a Cutter.

Which is where you'll run into problems with the T10.
Because it's so big, and heavy, the only shield that's reliable for combat is a C8 (or, presumably, a C7 prismatic) supported by a bunch of boosters and that's going to cut into your cargo space, require that you fit a C8 PP and cost a heap of credits.

It doesn't have to be a problem, of course. If you're determined to avoid combat completely, you'll be fine.

It may be viable to not even include any shield on T10. I have tried this with my Federal Gunship and it worked. Mirrored armor, 1 module protection unit and several for the hull. No shield included. It was viable against ship of its size and even viable vs Anaconds if I was careful with my manouvers to not take full hits.

The T10 has double the armor of the Gunship so you can build as an extremely powerful tank. But unfortunately may mean to sacrifice more slots which means less cargo which in turn defeats its main role as trader.

The real issue with T10 is that it also cannot turn with Cutter its even worse but Cutter with a bit stronger armor than the Gunship and an enormous shield. That can be ammended by giving AI control of you ship and taking control of the fighter to target the power planet or the trusters of the attacker.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Avoiding combat is not a problem for me. I don't like it a bit.
Oddly perhaps, since I do everything else in the game, I find combat dull and repetitive. Think I am still burned out by it from my new guy days 2-3 years ago where that was the bulk of what I did in-game. Tried it a couple times since and quickly regret it.

Fully understand you, i got all the high ranks (Elites , King and Admiral) i can get except in Combat (on dangerous 63%). Just sitting in an small area of space chasing ships about and trying to kill 1000's to gain Elite bores the pants off me aswell, keep pluggin away at it now since 2014. Must be many more of us out there with the same feeling.

 

[Aashenfox]

These commanderds are those whose statistics when combining Trade, Exploring and Combat together, whose average are above everyone elses in the game, ships sizes are simply irrelevant to this and Only FD know who they are no one else.

Interesting point of view. For me the best player in the game is the one that can position himself so that his guns face the enemy, while minimising the time he spends in front of theirs.

Players who have 'mastered' 6DOF dogfighting (I don't consider myself one, but I am getting there), are definitely a minority in this game. The skill gap between the average and best dogfighters is a bottomless gaping chasm. Note that pvp ships of choice are rarely the biggest.

I'm not elite at anything yet, after 2.5 years at the game, because I have never ground for anything, but I can definitely fly.

 

[Stealthie]

I dont think this is a good idea, you take a shield orientated ship and make it weaker. Cutter is an amazingly powerful tank. You need a powerful powerplant for big shield cell and at least 6C Bi Wave. Prismatic may seem bigger but they are actually smaller when you take into account the regeneration rate of the shield and how long it will be staying up.

Oh, I agree.

At the time I was trying to show a bit of self-restraint.
I figured that if I was using the Cutter as a trade-ship I should just accept that and outfit it accordingly.
It probably could have worked but I like to shoot at stuff too, so it didn't work for me.

It may be viable to not even include any shield on T10. I have tried this with my Federal Gunship and it worked. Mirrored armor, 1 module protection unit and several for the hull.

The T10 has double the armor of the Gunship so you can build as an extremely powerful tank. But unfortunately may mean to sacrifice more slots.

That's almost certainly going to be expensive though.
A session at a CNB had my hull down to 65% (along with quite a bit of module damage) and that cost Cr600k to repair.

If you're a trader who's fitted a spendy hull and HRPs/MRPs in the mil-slots in the hope of making more credits by carrying extra cargo instead of a shield, that kind of repair bill is going to bite.

 

[Aashenfox]

Fully understand you, i got all the high ranks (Elites , King and Admiral) i can get except in Combat (on dangerous 63%). Just sitting in an small area of space chasing ships about and trying to kill 1000's to gain Elite bores the pants off me aswell, keep pluggin away at it now since 2014. Must be many more of us out there with the same feeling.

My complaint about the way combat rank works is that I spent most of my time doing assassinations in game, something that requires more effort than heading out to the hazres, espeically if you stack 5 to 5 different systems. I get sent after Corvettes mostly these days, and the ships that come afte rme while I do it are Deadly or Elite Anacondas, yet I get less than 1/20th the combat XP of someone who stuck in a haz res and killed 100 deadly eagles with their turrets while watching netflix.

That' why my combat rank is crap. If I'd been getting equal xp for corvette kills to those popping small ships in Hazreses, I'd have been elite 4 times over by now. My 'revenue from assassinatoins' is TEN TIMES my revenue from bounties. It's not like the money is that much better to make up for it either. I can kill 40ish ships in a hazres in the same time it takes to kill 3 pirate lords for 6m (including their bounties and the missoin reward), which would net me about 2.5m. Then there's all the jumping around and long flights through SC...

Combat rank needs looking at in many ways. The size and euipment of the enemy ship in relation to your own should count. If I can take down a Corvette in my Courier, I should get a LOT more combat rank than someone popping eagles in a hazres with their corvette.

 

[znôrt]

Combat rank needs looking at in many ways. The size and euipment of the enemy ship in relation to your own should count. If I can take down a Corvette in my Courier, I should get a LOT more combat rank than someone popping eagles in a hazres with their corvette.

more fun to you. but it's pve anyway: meaningless. combat rank should advance with pvp only.

not gonna happen because 1) pvp is too flaky and 2) pvers want to be elite too!

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Interesting point of view. For me the best player in the game is the one that can position himself so that his guns face the enemy, while minimising the time he spends in front of theirs.

Players who have 'mastered' 6DOF dogfighting (I don't consider myself one, but I am getting there), are definitely a minority in this game. The skill gap between the average and best dogfighters is a bottomless gaping chasm. Note that pvp ships of choice are rarely the biggest.

I'm not elite at anything yet, after 2.5 years at the game, because I have never ground for anything, but I can definitely fly.

If we stay on tiny ships vs other tiny ships then combat skill does determine who is good and that is judged by statistics on human vs human combat only, you and i will never know who they are, ever. I seen commanders avoid piracy from human players and always escape for years, that alone makes his/hers flying skills better than the human pirate as they can avoid death.

Tiny ships can out move large ships, since FD killed off all reverse movement equal to forward thrust to large ships a few years ago, it made combat easy for tiny ships, hence why commanders are forced to use tiny ships or medium ships to kill big ships. Not skill, i am afraid it is all about making big ship combat useless in favour little or medium ships.

I seen one commander use a Conda and he tanked it to death and sat allowing a commander in a small ship to try kill him and he couldn't. It did not matter what his flying skills or combat skill was it was how the ship was managed and the tactics used and those pilots not combat pilots alone make some of the best pilots in game. The commander in the small ship had been playing in combat for three years.

Avoiding the combat vet is a harder skill and makes some of the best flying skills in pilots i have seen and they tend to be traders. I avoid human combat while playing in open since 2014 and have only died to 2 commanders in that time, and killed more of them in defence, because i am always in big ships it is best to just avoid fights as smaller ships have been given the upper hand in combat, FACT.


I could never understand why FD basically killed off reverse speed = forward thrust, though complaints by commanders in smaller ships at the time i bet had a big part in it

 

[Stealthie]

more fun to you. but it's pve anyway: meaningless. combat rank should advance with pvp only.

not gonna happen because 1) pvp is too flaky and 2) pvers want to be elite too!

I guess it'd depend on what sort of "PvP" increased combat rank.
If Aashenfox is taking out NPC Corvettes in his iCourier, I'd say that's more impressive than some monkey spacing player T7s in his murder lance.

 

[kilon]

That's almost certainly going to be expensive though.
A session at a CNB had my hull down to 65% (along with quite a bit of module damage) and that cost Cr600k to repair.

If you're a trader who's fitted a spendy hull and HRPs/MRPs in the mil-slots in the hope of making more credits by carrying extra cargo instead of a shield, that kind of repair bill is going to bite.

Cutter is a hardcore combat ship try to present itself as a fancy looking trader to lure in pirates and melt them away before they realise their mistake.

But yeah you can use it as harcore trader, why not. It is afterall the obvious choice with the biggest cargo haul.

Now on the matter of cost of T10s hull repair.

Well let me put it this way , yesterday I did not consider buying T10 because I had only 50mil.

But then I thought what the hell , I am going to sell something and see if I can bridge the gap a bit. I was browsing through my ships and then I saw my full armor Federal Gunship, was considering selling it because I did not need it so much but then I took a look at its selling price.

150 million

I was starring at the screen for several minutes trying to realise that a ship that costed 1 mil to buy costed me 150 or even more to upgrade its armor to its full potential.

Yeah I think paying for the cost of fixing hull damage will be the least of your concerns when it comes to costs. Making T10 to a full tank is going to take a ton more money than paying to fix its damage. Good thing I am in no hurry

 

[Aashenfox]

more fun to you. but it's pve anyway: meaningless. combat rank should advance with pvp only.

not gonna happen because 1) pvp is too flaky and 2) pvers want to be elite too!

No, I don't deserve ANYTHING for this, with NO reverse, no shield batteries, lightweight weapons and heat problems up the wazoo...you're right...

Did he even touch me??

Spoiler

[video=youtube;F6qrKxYrtI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6qrKxYrtI0[/video]

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No, I don't deserve ANYTHING for this, with NO reverse, no shield batteries, lightweight weapons and heat problems up the wazoo...you're right...

Did he even touch me??

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6qrKxYrtI0

no of course you dont... its only skilled combat if you have a meta ship with god rolled mods and are taking down vastly inferior foes..... silly (wo)man

seriously, good flyin!.

 

[znôrt]

I guess it'd depend on what sort of "PvP" increased combat rank.

indeed. that's part of reason 1), 'flaky pvp'.

If Aashenfox is taking out NPC Corvettes in his iCourier, I'd say that's more impressive than some monkey spacing player T7s in his murder lance.

i think it's not really comparable.

No, I don't deserve ANYTHING for this, with NO reverse, no shield batteries, lightweight weapons and heat problems up the wazoo...you're right...

Did he even touch me??

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6qrKxYrtI0

he hardly fired at you. and, was he engineered? did he do something surprising or was it exactly the same script you have done over and over again?

dude, don't get me wrong, i'm not questioning your merit or dedication. it's just my view on what a combat rank should mean. it doesn't even much in real life and we all know it

 

[Lightspeed]

Well, with the purchase of a T-10, I have stopped grinding for the Cutter ...... will relax now, and will just let the game take me to Duke without the grind. Meanwhile, I shall enjoy the T-10 ! [heart]

 

[Stealthie]

Yeah I think paying for the cost of fixing hull damage will be the least of your concerns when it comes to costs. Making T10 to a full tank is going to take a ton more money than paying to fix its damage. Good thing I am in no hurry

Well, I've already got Cr650m sunk into my T10 and I'm really just experimenting.

The point, though, was that if you were using one as a trade-ship then hull-tanking in the hope of dispensing with a shield so you could carry more cargo is a decision which could easily put a big dent in your profits.

You put, say, a 7E cargo rack in your T10 instead of a 7A shield and that means you've got to make at least enough credits out of that 128t of cargo to pay for, potentially, Cr500k of damage or, at worst, a Cr20m re-buy.

Personally, if I was using a T10 for trade/missions, I'd probably go with at least a 6A shield and sacrifice 64t of cargo capacity in order to avoid taking some damage.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Well, with the purchase of a T-10, I have stopped grinding for the Cutter ...... will relax now, and will just let the game take me to Duke without the grind. Meanwhile, I shall enjoy the T-10 ! [heart]

Good call! I have basically done the same and, as a Lakon fan, it was not a difficult decision to make.
Not to further derail the thread (too late?) but I absolutely cannot stand the grind of superpower ranking. I get it, I suppose, for gameplay reasons but it's not for me.
My fear was that the T10 would be rank-locked behind some Alliance ranking system.
Bless you FDev!

 

[Old Duck]

Well I hope all of you flying that huge slab of steak get scrammed every single day like I do, and that you subsequently complain about it, because I'm sick and tired of this particular bug [mad]