Note on Guardian Fittings: Thargoids will only react aggressively to Guardian Cargo in your hold, not Guardian fittings. To date (2 Aug 2018), there has been no definitive proof that Guardians will react aggressively to only Guardian fittings. Claims to the otherwise have either lacked any evidence to back it up, or have been explained by other issues (cargo which will trigger them, staying too close too long, collisions etc.). Nonetheless... if you can capture video showing a non-hostile Thargoid
... then I'll happily update to reflect the circumstance. It's easy enough to stage that situation (having done it myself and triggered no hostile reaction), so you'll need to hit all those points in your video to get it verified.
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I recently made a post disputing the commonly-held knowledge about Thargoid reactions to various cargo types. Since then I've reliably reproduced these reactions on several occasions, enough that I'm satisfied of consistency in most of the results. I've also been thinking a fair whack about the various reactions, what the Thargoids scoop, and what it might mean... but before all that.
Different Thargoid reactions to scanning you with different cargo
1. No Cargo of interest
This reaction happens if you have no cargo, or you're holding any cargo that's not explicitly mentioned in the other videos in this post.
Notes:
2. Thargoid Cargo on board
While the video shows only Thargoid Resin, I've verified Thargoids will react the same upon detection of any of the following in your hold:
Notes:
3. Thargoid reaction to Guardian cargo
Thargoid will react like shown in this video if you carry any of the following:
Notes
4. Thargoid Reaction to Meta Alloys
The following reaction occurs only when you have meta-alloys in the cargo hold.
Notes:
5. (NEW) Thargoid Reaction to Unclassified Relics
The following reaction occurs when you have Unclassified Relics in the cargo hold.
Note: I have not tested reactions with mixtures of cargo. I expect a tiered response, where Meta Alloys overrides no cargo, but this is overriden by the Thargoid cargo reaction, which is likewise overriden by the Guardian reaction.
We also know that Thargoids have different reactions to cargo floating around the place.
Thargoid Interaction with uninteresting cargo.
This is fairly simple. The Thargoid ship will just scan the cargo and move on.
Thargoid Interaction with Humanoid cargo.
Humanoid cargo includes Occupied Escape Pods, Damaged Escape Pods, Slaves, Imperial Slaves, Master Chefs, and any other "Human" cargo" (e.g "Political Prisoners" from Powerplay ships). For this sort of cargo, the Thargoid ships will scan and "scoop" up the cargo. However, dropping large volumes of this cargo will not result in another Thargoid ship arriving.
New: The exception to this rule is Thargoid Bio-Storage Capsules. Thargoids have no interest in these, and react like "uninteresting" cargo.
Thargoid Interaction with Meta Alloys, Thargoid Cargoes and Unclassified Relics
Thargoids will also scan and scoop up Meta Alloys, Thargoid cargoes and Unclassified Relics. Dropping more than five of these items will result in a second Thargoid ship being called in to assist with scooping. You can drop a mix of items and they
Thargoid Interaction with Guardian Items
Thargoids will scan any jettisoned Guardian Items (orbs, relics, caskets etc.) and after completing the scan will flare red and attack the item. As noted, they will not attack Unclassified Relics, instead scooping them up.
Thargoid Interaction with Unclassified Relics (NEW)
Thargoids will also scan and scoop up Meta Alloys and Thargoid Links/Sensors/Probes. Dropping more than five of these items will result in a second Thargoid ship being called in to assist with scooping.
Thargoids Summoning other Thargoids
There is a distinct noise which can be heard when "summoning" a Thargoid using more than five items of interest (except for humanoid cargo). It occurs roughly around 1:25 in the Unclassified Relic video.
Other Interactions
There are some other "reactions" you can provoke that I've mentioned (i.e evading EMP blasts, getting too close) but they're not really relevant to what I want to discuss around cargo reactions.
----
So most of this isn't really new... the meta-alloys reaction seems different to the current line of thinking which is that Thargoids will attack you for holding them. But especially with that change, I think there's a lot we can start to derive from these reactions... to the point where we might be able to understand their motives (which, in my opinion, aren't territorial or necessarily based on any previous aggression from us... Aegis may even be completely inconsequential to their motives).
For ease of discussion, I'm only going to talk about cargo types of mentioned above; i.e any sort of cargo that, in one form or another, will elicit some response from a Thargoid. Anything else we'll just assume they aren't interested.
Thargoid Noises
Just wanted to briefly go over the noises Thargoids make in response to the different cargoes also. This bit is applying somewhat "human" emotion to the noises which is fraught, but there's an element of consistency when you consider other contexts for the noises.
The "No interesting cargo" sound is kind of bored, disappointed or just uninterested. This is reinforced by the fact the Thargoid moves on so quickly. Ultimately, you're not of interest and have nothing to offer the Thargoid.
When you have Thargoid cargo on board, it's really important to note the noise is the same as the one when you first enter an NHSS, before the Thargoid approaches to scan you. Now, I don't know about you, but when I unexpectedly hear a ship jump in to a USS or a planets surface or what not, my first instinct is a defensive "Who's that? What're you doing here?" and I'm cautious until I work out if it's a cop, a pirate, or something else. I believe the Thargoid's noise when you jump into the NHSS is one of caution, "Halt, who goes there" if you will. This is why I think their reaction to Thargoid cargo on board your ship is one of "muted caution", not forcing a hostile resolution, but equally telling you you're in the wrong and giving an opportunity to resolve it.
Meanwhile, the Guardian Cargo sound is similar to the sound a Thargoid makes when initiating combat (sometimes) or when you provoke it by getting it too close. Guardian cargo is clearly invokes a provocative, negative reaction from Thargoids. Why this is the case is best left for the Guardian's thread, but nonetheless, it's very obviously one of aggression and inciting conflict.
Lastly, the Meta Alloy reaction sound is, in my opinion, the most interesting. While I can't find anything where the same reaction is used, I find it has similarities between when a hostile Thargoid destroys an aggressor, and when a Thargoid dies. In the case of destroying an aggressor, it's a form of elation or celebration, while the death is, well, death. In that regard, I can't help but think like it's a "desperate happiness", like the Thargoids don't just want Meta Alloys, they need Meta Alloys, but they're not prepared to trample anything in their path to take them.
So what's the point of all this?
So, I'm not part of the "conspiracy theory" camp. It's all too tropey for Aegis to be secretly causing all the Thargoid attacks, or attacking their own stations with Thargoid weaponry to "frame" the Thargoids. But they are unknowingly provoking the Thargoids one way or another. We know Aegis and almost every superpower has been in the game of harvesting meta-alloys, and I'd suggest the Thargoids need them. But casual observation's shown the only things Thargoids will aggress for are Guardian items or Thargoid items. We also know Aegis has collected some of them for the development of AX weapons, so there's a reason enough for Thargoids to attack.
We also know some mega-ship logs refer to bringing "things" on board which possibly provoke Thargoid attacks; this could either be Guardian or Thargoid technology given their reactions.
But it doesn't really explain the escalation. It's entirely possible that the Thargoids are getting desperate enough for Meta-Alloys to start launching large-scale attacks for them... but there's also no evidence they'd do that. Either way, this hopefully sheds some more light on potential Thargoid motivations.
NOTE: I've just decided to archive the below section as a lot of it is old and doesn't make sense... some of it does though and I don't have the time right now to correct. A majority of the changes are around the fact Goids now scoop hearts, tissue samples, resin/tech/bio.
- (optional) get hyperdicted;
- scanning you;
- with nothing of note in your cargohold;
- while staying outside of 500m from the Thargoid;
- without shooting or colliding with it;
- with Guardian fittings on your ship; and
- the Thargoid becomes hostile after scanning
... then I'll happily update to reflect the circumstance. It's easy enough to stage that situation (having done it myself and triggered no hostile reaction), so you'll need to hit all those points in your video to get it verified.
------
I recently made a post disputing the commonly-held knowledge about Thargoid reactions to various cargo types. Since then I've reliably reproduced these reactions on several occasions, enough that I'm satisfied of consistency in most of the results. I've also been thinking a fair whack about the various reactions, what the Thargoids scoop, and what it might mean... but before all that.
Different Thargoid reactions to scanning you with different cargo
1. No Cargo of interest
This reaction happens if you have no cargo, or you're holding any cargo that's not explicitly mentioned in the other videos in this post.
Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- About 6 seconds after the scan, the Thargoid will simply disengage and go on scanning/searching wrecks and cargo
- Sound the Thargoid makes upon completing the scan is almost "bored" or "disappointed"
2. Thargoid Cargo on board
- Thargoid Sensor/Link/Probe
- Thargoid Resin/Technology Samples/Biological Matter
- Thargoid Cyclops/Basilisk/Medusa/Hydra Tissue Samples
- Thargoid Heart
- Impure/Semi Refined Thargoid Spire Minerals
Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all relevant cargo. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance. If you fail to jettison all relevant cargo in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, flash red and become Hostile on your HUD and immediately engage.
- The sound the Thargoid makes when completing the scan is the same as the noise it makes when you initially enter the NHSS instance and it begins to approach you. More on the noises later.
3. Thargoid reaction to Guardian cargo
- Guardian Orb
- Guardian Casket
- Guardian Totem
- GuardianTablet
- Guardian Orb
- Guardian Relic
- Guardian Key
Notes
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all relevant cargo. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance, and will also flare red like it does in combat. If you fail to jettison all relevant cargo in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, become Hostile on your HUD and immediately engage.
- The sound the Thargoid makes when completing the scan is the same as the noise it makes when get too close to it or "provoke" it in other ways (like stealing a Probe it was scooping, or countering an EMP blast from a nonhostile Thargoid e.g one which has hyperdicted you). More on the noises later.
4. Thargoid Reaction to Meta Alloys
Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all the meta alloys. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance. If you fail to jettison them in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, flare red, but not become hostile. It will also disengage from the 350m. If you get outside of 500m, it will stop flaring red, and after a short delay will go about it's normal behaviour. This is consistent with a warning given by a Thargoid when you are "too close" to it.
- The sound the Thargoid makes is unique for Meta-alloys. It's almost an "excited" or even "longing" noise. In my opinion, it's almost comparable to both the noise the Thargoid makes when it destroys a ship (another CMDR or one of your fighters) and when the Thargoid dies. Again, more on sounds later.
5. (NEW) Thargoid Reaction to Unclassified Relics
The following reaction occurs when you have Unclassified Relics in the cargo hold.
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all relevant cargo. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance, and will also flare red like it does in combat. If you fail to jettison all relevant cargo in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, become Hostile on your HUD and immediately engage.
- The sound the Thargoid makes when completing the scan is the same as the noise it makes when get too close to it or "provoke" it in other ways (like stealing a Probe it was scooping, or countering an EMP blast from a nonhostile Thargoid e.g one which has hyperdicted you). More on the noises later.
Note: I have not tested reactions with mixtures of cargo. I expect a tiered response, where Meta Alloys overrides no cargo, but this is overriden by the Thargoid cargo reaction, which is likewise overriden by the Guardian reaction.
We also know that Thargoids have different reactions to cargo floating around the place.
Thargoid Interaction with uninteresting cargo.
This is fairly simple. The Thargoid ship will just scan the cargo and move on.
Thargoid Interaction with Humanoid cargo.
Humanoid cargo includes Occupied Escape Pods, Damaged Escape Pods, Slaves, Imperial Slaves, Master Chefs, and any other "Human" cargo" (e.g "Political Prisoners" from Powerplay ships). For this sort of cargo, the Thargoid ships will scan and "scoop" up the cargo. However, dropping large volumes of this cargo will not result in another Thargoid ship arriving.
New: The exception to this rule is Thargoid Bio-Storage Capsules. Thargoids have no interest in these, and react like "uninteresting" cargo.
Thargoid Interaction with Meta Alloys, Thargoid Cargoes and Unclassified Relics
Thargoids will also scan and scoop up Meta Alloys, Thargoid cargoes and Unclassified Relics. Dropping more than five of these items will result in a second Thargoid ship being called in to assist with scooping. You can drop a mix of items and they
[video=youtube;q8b02sPU8sU]
]Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8b02sPU8sU[/video]
Thargoid Interaction with Guardian Items
Thargoids will scan any jettisoned Guardian Items (orbs, relics, caskets etc.) and after completing the scan will flare red and attack the item. As noted, they will not attack Unclassified Relics, instead scooping them up.
Thargoid Interaction with Unclassified Relics (NEW)
Thargoids will also scan and scoop up Meta Alloys and Thargoid Links/Sensors/Probes. Dropping more than five of these items will result in a second Thargoid ship being called in to assist with scooping.
Thargoids Summoning other Thargoids
There is a distinct noise which can be heard when "summoning" a Thargoid using more than five items of interest (except for humanoid cargo). It occurs roughly around 1:25 in the Unclassified Relic video.
Other Interactions
There are some other "reactions" you can provoke that I've mentioned (i.e evading EMP blasts, getting too close) but they're not really relevant to what I want to discuss around cargo reactions.
----
So most of this isn't really new... the meta-alloys reaction seems different to the current line of thinking which is that Thargoids will attack you for holding them. But especially with that change, I think there's a lot we can start to derive from these reactions... to the point where we might be able to understand their motives (which, in my opinion, aren't territorial or necessarily based on any previous aggression from us... Aegis may even be completely inconsequential to their motives).
For ease of discussion, I'm only going to talk about cargo types of mentioned above; i.e any sort of cargo that, in one form or another, will elicit some response from a Thargoid. Anything else we'll just assume they aren't interested.
Thargoid Noises
Just wanted to briefly go over the noises Thargoids make in response to the different cargoes also. This bit is applying somewhat "human" emotion to the noises which is fraught, but there's an element of consistency when you consider other contexts for the noises.
The "No interesting cargo" sound is kind of bored, disappointed or just uninterested. This is reinforced by the fact the Thargoid moves on so quickly. Ultimately, you're not of interest and have nothing to offer the Thargoid.
When you have Thargoid cargo on board, it's really important to note the noise is the same as the one when you first enter an NHSS, before the Thargoid approaches to scan you. Now, I don't know about you, but when I unexpectedly hear a ship jump in to a USS or a planets surface or what not, my first instinct is a defensive "Who's that? What're you doing here?" and I'm cautious until I work out if it's a cop, a pirate, or something else. I believe the Thargoid's noise when you jump into the NHSS is one of caution, "Halt, who goes there" if you will. This is why I think their reaction to Thargoid cargo on board your ship is one of "muted caution", not forcing a hostile resolution, but equally telling you you're in the wrong and giving an opportunity to resolve it.
Meanwhile, the Guardian Cargo sound is similar to the sound a Thargoid makes when initiating combat (sometimes) or when you provoke it by getting it too close. Guardian cargo is clearly invokes a provocative, negative reaction from Thargoids. Why this is the case is best left for the Guardian's thread, but nonetheless, it's very obviously one of aggression and inciting conflict.
Lastly, the Meta Alloy reaction sound is, in my opinion, the most interesting. While I can't find anything where the same reaction is used, I find it has similarities between when a hostile Thargoid destroys an aggressor, and when a Thargoid dies. In the case of destroying an aggressor, it's a form of elation or celebration, while the death is, well, death. In that regard, I can't help but think like it's a "desperate happiness", like the Thargoids don't just want Meta Alloys, they need Meta Alloys, but they're not prepared to trample anything in their path to take them.
So what's the point of all this?
So, I'm not part of the "conspiracy theory" camp. It's all too tropey for Aegis to be secretly causing all the Thargoid attacks, or attacking their own stations with Thargoid weaponry to "frame" the Thargoids. But they are unknowingly provoking the Thargoids one way or another. We know Aegis and almost every superpower has been in the game of harvesting meta-alloys, and I'd suggest the Thargoids need them. But casual observation's shown the only things Thargoids will aggress for are Guardian items or Thargoid items. We also know Aegis has collected some of them for the development of AX weapons, so there's a reason enough for Thargoids to attack.
We also know some mega-ship logs refer to bringing "things" on board which possibly provoke Thargoid attacks; this could either be Guardian or Thargoid technology given their reactions.
But it doesn't really explain the escalation. It's entirely possible that the Thargoids are getting desperate enough for Meta-Alloys to start launching large-scale attacks for them... but there's also no evidence they'd do that. Either way, this hopefully sheds some more light on potential Thargoid motivations.
NOTE: I've just decided to archive the below section as a lot of it is old and doesn't make sense... some of it does though and I don't have the time right now to correct. A majority of the changes are around the fact Goids now scoop hearts, tissue samples, resin/tech/bio.
Thinking about how they react to floating cargo. (UPDATED)
This is a pretty tidy place to start.
This has a sense of logic to it if you think about it a bit, and extrapolate some ideas.
Now, combine the reactions when this cargo is in your hold.
In my opinion, this is where it gets really interesting. Seeing how thargoids react to different cargo floating around is one consideration, and seeing how they react to stuff in your hold is a separate thing... but when you consider them both in conjunction you start to get much deeper understanding. Throwing it into a table...
It doesn't add much info, but it helps visualise reactions against their interest in scooping the cargo. Specifically, it kinda puts up the case that Thargoids really aren't that interested in humanoids, though they pick them up for a reason, which may be a secondary or even tertiary concern. Basically, there's five categories of what I'll coin "Interest" by the Thargoids in an item.
This is a pretty tidy place to start.
- Will scoop; Humanoids
- Will scoop and will call in help to scoop; Meta Alloys and Thargoid Links/Sensors/Probes, Thargoid Hearts, Thargoid Resin/Tech/Biological, Thargoid <variant> Tissue Samples, Unclassified Relics
- Will destroy; Guardian items
This has a sense of logic to it if you think about it a bit, and extrapolate some ideas.
- The items listed as "Won't Scoop" are essentially Thargoid (Ship) "Body Parts"; junk, scrap. It's unlikely a Thargoid should be interested in that cargo at all.
- Humanoids are something interesting, so the Thargoids scoop them, but they don't care enough to get their buddies in for them. It feels somewhat unnatural, almost as if it's just a convenience thing.
- Meanwhile Meta-Alloys and Links/Probe/Sensors warrant bringing in a buddy to help grab them. The Links/Sensors/Probes have a logic to them... they're active pieces of tech which transmit signals. We know they work in conjunction to seemingly "activate" the Thargoid Structures. What doesn't have a logic is why Thargoids are now actively recovering them. We also know Thargoids have an interest in meta alloys by-extension through their interactions "sucking" something (energy? Energised meta-alloys?) from Barnacles, our source of meta alloys.
- And lastly, Guardian items. This is possibly the most interesting reaction. We know placing guardian items in a Thargoid structure results in a violent reaction so it makes some sense that a Thargoid vessel reacts equally violently to the cargo. However, this is still a fairly extreme reaction. Generally, if something (person, cat, dog, whatever) see something that reminds you of an old enemy, or something that symbolising something which hurt you in the past, the reaction is generally not to immediately destroy that thing. The sort of things that trigger that kind of reaction are things or events which are deliberately provocative, pose an immediate threat or significantly interfere with your ability to go about your business/life. I think it's fair to say that the Thargoids don't just hate the Guardians, their technology puts fear into them.
Now, combine the reactions when this cargo is in your hold.
In my opinion, this is where it gets really interesting. Seeing how thargoids react to different cargo floating around is one consideration, and seeing how they react to stuff in your hold is a separate thing... but when you consider them both in conjunction you start to get much deeper understanding. Throwing it into a table...
| Reaction\Scooping | Won't scoop | Will scoop | Will scoop +get help | Destroy |
| No Interest | Humanoids | |||
| Meta Alloys | Meta Alloys | |||
| Thargoid Cargo (Hostile) | Resin/Tech/Bio/ Tissues | Heart | Link/Sensor/Probe | |
| Guardian Cargo (Hostile) | All Guardian Items |
It doesn't add much info, but it helps visualise reactions against their interest in scooping the cargo. Specifically, it kinda puts up the case that Thargoids really aren't that interested in humanoids, though they pick them up for a reason, which may be a secondary or even tertiary concern. Basically, there's five categories of what I'll coin "Interest" by the Thargoids in an item.
- Humanoids: They don't care if you have them... but if they happen to be "floating around" they'll grab them. The "lack of care" is also indicative because we aren't attacked on sight.
- Meta-Alloys: They want them really badly (see next para about their noises)... but won't fight you for them. The behaviour is almost like that of a beggar... they might want your money and ask you for it, but they (usually) won't punch you in the street for it. There's almost a sense of desparation to it.
- Resin/tech/bio/tissues/heart: They are concerned if you possess it, and are willing to fight you for it if you don't abandon it. However, they have no interest in collecting or keeping it, their only interest is in you not possessing it.
- Links/Sensors/Probes: These are valuable to Thargoids, and they're willing to fight you for it. Like the Tissue Samples etc. though, it's muted aggression, thus they don't flare up red initially. It's almost like an appeal to your senses... combined with the fact they make the same sort of "cautionary" noise when you first enter an NHSS when they detect any Thargoid cargo on board, it's almost as if they're saying "Do the right thing, don't make me hurt you".
- Guardian tech: This reaction is just outright aggression, possibly from significant fear or legitimate concern for safety. The fact they flare up red when they detect guardian cargo on board is almost suggesting a "This is going to end in destruction; whether it's you or the cargo".
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