Murder

[CMDR Endincite]

I thought I'd start a new thread on this point - need to get out of the megathread mindset lol.

Murder in the ruling factions jurisdiction hurts ruling faction far more that the hit for the target faction

How many concur? Testing results?
Murder is an awfully commonly used tool for direct, non-controlling faction reduction. Because one of our people was convinced there *should* be an impact on the controller, I've kept an eye out and seen no inkling that anyone is affected negatively (in influence terms) beside the owning faction of the murdered ship (the vast majority of murders being conducted in the controlling faction's jurisdiction). This includes my no-traffic testing areas, but sadly I don't have recorded data as I rather thought it simply an unsupported theory.

If no one has anything solid though I'll put it on the list of things to test. Again.

 

[MottiKhan]

Murder decreases the system controller's influence and adds to lockdown. It decreases the target faction's influence as well, but doesn't add to a state. So yes, I'd say that it hurts the system owner more than the target.

I haven't saved any data for it, but have been using murder as a tool against a particularly difficult opponent. I murdered everyone except the two factions that I was trying to help. It drove everyone except the two to 1% influence.

But I can be convinced otherwise if there's data on it. Maybe a test is in order.

 

[Jane Turner]

Murder affects the juridiction owner heavily - be it the system owner if in general space, or the station owner if in the environs of a station owned by an alternative factor. There may also be a smaller shp loss factor for the owner of any ships lost

 

[Starwolfe]

My space must be special.

Murder where I am at only influences the faction I target.

I get a bounty with the Jurisdiction's controller, but the negative effects go onto the target faction I am slaughtering.

 

[StevieG]

I have to agree with the OP. Murdering a non controlling faction reduces their influence we all agree on that. I just dont see the drop in influence for the controlling faction. If anything they slightly increase due to the bleed from the faction getting murdered. I know that its not suppose to work this way and I've been told you will harm the controlling faction just as much as the non controlling faction... i just dont see that on a day to day basis in game.

It may be contributing to the civil unrest and lockdown buckets for the controlling faction but again I've not seen the controlling faction actually go into lockdown due to murder taking place of the non controlling faction.

 

[Dommarraa]

I think everyone agrees that the inf change of the target is either very low, or zero. In lieu of a documented and published test, it really doesn't matter.
When beyond has dropped we can test properly in a dirty ship without screwing our account for 7 days

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

I think everyone agrees that the inf change of the target is either very low, or zero. In lieu of a documented and published test, it really doesn't matter.
When beyond has dropped we can test properly in a dirty ship without screwing our account for 7 days

And while doing so determine what bounty threshold one needs to have them ATRs respond and then test them. Hope there are some heavily engineered people around to act as guinea pigs. At any rate, the times of unadulterated murder without consequence will be at an definitive end.

I am just sad for those who gave up in the past years being burned out on others wrecking their efforts with this and other exploits. Let's hope some of them want to come back and revitalise some of their PMF that lie dormant in the cold of space.

 

[Jane Turner]

And while doing so determine what bounty threshold one needs to have them ATRs respond and then test them. Hope there are some heavily engineered people around to act as guinea pigs. At any rate, the times of unadulterated murder without consequence will be at an definitive end.

I am just sad for those who gave up in the past years being burned out on others wrecking their efforts with this and other exploits. Let's hope some of them want to come back and revitalise some of their PMF that lie dormant in the cold of space.

We had been on the receiving end of murder for 18 months - I am just pleased we clung on. When murder was 5x the effect of current and uncapped, it was amazingly hard to survive. I wonder if we can tempt any player groups back?

 

[Schlack]

As there are a number of reports were doing a little retesting to verify base assumptions. What has been suggested here does not confirm to our operational experience.

I just want to make sure that we are not talking at cross purposes. The effect I described above is particular to murder in the ruling factions jurisdiction. Murder within the target factions jurisdiction will of course hurt the target faction (both from murder effect and ship loss effect) and not the system ruling faction.

Murder is defined as killing unwanted ships and includes both authority ships and other NPCs.

Jurisdiction is defined as the area of control of a specific faction, in general the ruling faction is in control of most of the system but individual factions have jurisdiction around their various assets.

It would be appreciated if you could more precisely describe the circumstances of the effect you have described.

 

[Schlack]

We had been on the receiving end of murder for 18 months - I am just pleased we clung on. When murder was 5x the effect of current and uncapped, it was amazingly hard to survive. I wonder if we can tempt any player groups back?

Murder was BGS easy mode for attacks back then. That said I would not want to see murder removed as a viable tool for particular circumstances - especially emergencies. Its just still very OP. The amount of effort required to counteract a small number of murdering cmdrs creates burnout.

 

[Jane Turner]

We are certain that murder has a negative effect on the juridiction owner, and fairly sure that is approx equal to a ++ mission per murder only negative. We haven't quantified the ship loss effect and have a feeling it is lfess than it was, but suspect there is still a small negative effect.

 

[Roybe]

If I understand the new c&P system, this is going to change drastically.

 

[Jane Turner]

Murder was BGS easy mode for attacks back then. That said I would not want to see murder removed as a viable tool for particular circumstances - especially emergencies. Its just still very OP. The amount of effort required to counteract a small number of murdering cmdrs creates burnout.

agreed!

 

[Jane Turner]

If I understand the new c&P system, this is going to change drastically.

I don't think the effect are due to change, but I could easily be wrong. What is going to change in theory is the ease with which farming murders can be a thing.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

We only had the direct experience in June 3303 where we were attacked mostly through the killing of our Security ships.

Lately we've had an odd occurance though. In one of our Systems we're doing Elections with another MF. Shortly before equalisation was again possible after the recovery period, said MF dropped into a Lockdown. Our own % was not harmed in any major way.

We were suspecting that it could've happened before the Election went live, but since conflicts kill everything pending off (minus Expansions if memory serves correctly) that was out of the question.

So that only left these possibilities for us:

1.) People running Passenger missions from other Systems in which cause the Lockdown effect to go pending / live.
2.) Mass kills of the clean ships of that particular MF to drive it into a Lockdown.

The second possibitility also comes to mind when remembering that I've witnessed an entire System (minus 1 MF) being in Lockdown once.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

We were suspecting that it could've happened before the Election went live, but since conflicts kill everything pending off (minus Expansions if memory serves correctly) that was out of the question.

I don't believe this is the case. Conflicts will override all non-conflict active states, which may lead to 0-duration active periods (so the pending state seems to disappear) but I've certainly seen non-expansion pending states persist on a faction through a War.

For example, Colonia Co-operative has just switched from Expansion to War on today's tick. Their Pending Boom is still present, however.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

Colonia is it's own special beast in means of the BGS, so whatever happens there is something you can't compare to the bubble.

That said, we've yet to have a planned Expansion in 2.4. The last unplanned one was killed on the day the latest Election went live.

If a Expansion is put on hold if it's pending and not going live on the same day as any type of conflict is something we'd have to verify at some point, but I doubt we'll do that. Efficieny is what is best, so unless things go sideways we will always initiate a pending conflict on the 4th day of a pending Expansion.

 

[Jane Turner]

I don't believe this is the case. Conflicts will override all non-conflict active states, which may lead to 0-duration active periods (so the pending state seems to disappear) but I've certainly seen non-expansion pending states persist on a faction through a War.

For example, Colonia Co-operative has just switched from Expansion to War on today's tick. Their Pending Boom is still present, however.

Agreed as a rule conflict states override active states, suspend pending states and delay the onset of pending states. There have been odd effect where an expansion goes active and shortly after in the same tick is replaced by a war - that's the only way you can apparently "lose" a pending state. Others have reported such expansions as permanently lost and for a while it was a way of generating double expansions.

 

[Starwolfe]

Elections are good in that regard - they prevent bounties and Murder from effecting influence while it is live.

 

[Jane Turner]

Can't say I''ve seen that happen.