Ummm... my example was showing that getting the equivalent to a good G5 roll in the new system is roughly the same not more.
And then its easier as all the other stuff you get which is currently trash is tradeable.
Engineering in Beyond - do I have this right?
- Thread starter GreyAreaUK
- Start date
Ummm... my example was showing that getting the equivalent to a good G5 roll in the new system is roughly the same not more.
And then its easier as all the other stuff you get which is currently trash is tradeable.
Yep! FD believe making you faff about over, and over, and over, is good quality game time experience!
Hence we're in the rediculous situation right now of loads of CMDRs simply buying loads of modules, doing a single G5 roll on them and storing them. This then means come the new mechanics, they can then roll these modules straight up through G5, skipping the new G1->G4 grind wall!
NOTE: The following suggestion would mean CMDRs wouldn't have to do the above, and would end up in the same position all with within the new mechanics. All via a simple new option/mechanic - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-quot-grind-quot-G1-gt-G5-on-every-new-module
It all looks interesting - not really been into the engineer thing that much nad currently grafting away and hopefully can get Palin before the new version drops. I'll get what I think I need to G5 with current process and anything else I'll be happy to engineer the new way as from what I'm reading, yes there's a bit more work in that you cant just jump grades, however there's mechanics in place to help get the mats you need.
Hopefully people calm down a bit during the beta
Fish anyone?
Hopefully people calm down a bit during the beta
Fish anyone?
I agree strongly with what mutedhiver says. The mats need a more engaging way to be gathered particularly at higher grades. Id also advocate more linked to player skill/progress.
So instead of HGSS. Core dynamic conposites and imperial shielding is dropped by elite Coredynamic/guatamaya ships in conflict zones.
Making it a known and solid locations (not rng hgss hopping)
And linked to progress skill so its something which is felt to be earnt not randomly acquired.
So instead of HGSS. Core dynamic conposites and imperial shielding is dropped by elite Coredynamic/guatamaya ships in conflict zones.
Making it a known and solid locations (not rng hgss hopping)
And linked to progress skill so its something which is felt to be earnt not randomly acquired.
Secondaries can be positive or negative, and surprisingly large - IIRC a thruster G5 god roll (max roll plus max secondary) is 141% multiplier, which is a lot bigger than the maximum 128% without secondaries. Imagine getting a god roll for your G4 plus a low base and a negative secondary for your G5, and there's your grade skipping roll. I don't think it's possible to get a G3 that's better than even the worst possible G5, but I have definitely seen a G4 that did that.
You can on the FSD increased range. Best grade 3: 30%, worst grade 5:20%
Infact you could get a grade 2 (best 20%) with a good secondary and have better then the worst Grade 5 with negative secondary in the current system which to me is just plain stupid.
Deleted member 38366
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I still fail to see that the new System would be easier or less grindy in any way.
3x G1 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (i.e. Efficient Beams? That'll be 3x Sulphur)
3x G2 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Sulphur, 3x Heat Dispersion Plate)
3x G3 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Chromium, 3x Heat Exchangers, 3x Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data)
3x G4 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Selenium, 3x Heat Vanes, 3x Irregular Emission Data)
So that's :
6x Sulphur
3x Chromium
3x Selenium
3x Heat Dispersion Plate
3x Heat Exchangers
3x Heat Vanes
3x Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data
3x Irregular Emission Data
27 Items gone. And you haven't even done a single Grade 5 roll yet. For a single Efficient Beam Laser.
3x G1 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (i.e. Efficient Beams? That'll be 3x Sulphur)
3x G2 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Sulphur, 3x Heat Dispersion Plate)
3x G3 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Chromium, 3x Heat Exchangers, 3x Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data)
3x G4 - wasted, needed only to LevelUp, Materials restricted to the desired Mod (your Efficient Beams are now 3x Selenium, 3x Heat Vanes, 3x Irregular Emission Data)
So that's :
6x Sulphur
3x Chromium
3x Selenium
3x Heat Dispersion Plate
3x Heat Exchangers
3x Heat Vanes
3x Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data
3x Irregular Emission Data
27 Items gone. And you haven't even done a single Grade 5 roll yet. For a single Efficient Beam Laser.
Ideally, manufactured materials would be obtained using salvage game mechanics, where you use something similar to mining but on a shipwreck. In my dreams, you do that by doing EVA into creepy AF abandoned ships and stations.
That probably explains why it took over 20 rolls to get a G5 that was better than my G4.
Because all you need to get are 5-6 grade 5 mats and then use the broker to to break down two of each to get all the required mats. Then you upgrade from G1- good G5 in one sitting.
Also they are not wasted as they are needed for the next grade. Don't have grade one, can't get grade 2. Less waste then the current version as you can skip straight to G5 so if you do get a G3 and then get a G5 you have wasted that G3. Now they are mandatory, nothing is a waste, they are necessary.
Also with the materials limts you won't need to continously throw materials away like we have had to do.
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I wouldn't mind the new system if we just needed to roll once to unlock the next level for a module, so it's like you need to upgrade five different components to optimise your module. That would be logical and make sense. But having to roll 2-3 times at each level is just unnecessary grind.
I get it that FD don't want engineers to be too quick and easy, there is a sense of achievement at getting a grade V module and I wouldn't want to take that away, but all those extra rolls are just boring mouse clicks. That's not gameplay.
I get it that FD don't want engineers to be too quick and easy, there is a sense of achievement at getting a grade V module and I wouldn't want to take that away, but all those extra rolls are just boring mouse clicks. That's not gameplay.
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Yep. I have a G5 FSD increased range which will get a massive boost when I downgrade it to the top end of the new G4. It will basically be a free upgrade for me.
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Don't worry, you could always take off from the Engineer, fly all the way to a Material Broker, convert a couple of materials to the one you're now short off, and then fly all the way back to the Engineer to do that next roll.
Remember, needless faff is good quality game time!
I mean having a single unified Material Broker at each Engineer? Noooo! That would compromise gameplay quality!
You know there's other grades besides grade 5 which will give you solid improvements rights?
It is not G5 shop. Never have been.
That new G4 will be as good as if not better thsn a current G5 roll.
You don't need to find those exact materials as can trade up or down.
Most of the lower grade mats will be fojnd sg ths same time/place as the higher grades. So its not going to be more effort to gather them.
If you pick up the same materials you-d previously use to "guatantee" a good G5 roll (3 rolls say) under the current rngineers you could keep one and trade down the others. And get a *Guaranteed* G5 mod better than G4.
My 5/20 G5 hull rei fircements which are worse than G4 rolls (plus the same on drives snd dome wespkns) are enough to convjnce me this is better.
An example.
Going to Plain for G5 Dirty drives.
Current system:
Just getting a G5 costs
- 1 Cadmium,
- 1 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 1 Pharmaceutical Isolators.
Getting a 'Maxed' G5 costs on average about
- 500 Cadmium
- 500 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 500 Pharmaceutical Isolators.
New system:
Just getting a G5 costs about
- 9 Specialised Legacy Firmware
- 6 Mechanical Equipment
- 3 Chromium
- 3 Configurable Components
- 3 Modified Consumer Firmware
- 3 Selenium
- 1 Cadmium
- 1 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 1 Pharmaceutical Isolators
Getting a 'Maxed' G5 costs on average about
- 9 Specialised Legacy Firmware
- 6 Mechanical Equipment
- 3 Chromium
- 3 Configurable Components
- 3 Modified Consumer Firmware
- 3 Selenium
- 3 Cadmium
- 3 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 3 Pharmaceutical Isolators
It's easy to see that a top G5 is much easier to get while a basic G5 is harder to get. Getting a component past G4 takes some collecting now, while 'maxing out' is relatively quick. Your personal requirements for module quality will determine if this is more or less work.
The new system has the advantage of the materials broker, to ease the voyage a bit. It also has the advantage of allowing a special effect to be put on at any stage of the upgrade process, without having to reapply it later.
It's apples and oranges, but I think I prefer the new system.
Going to Plain for G5 Dirty drives.
Current system:
Just getting a G5 costs
- 1 Cadmium,
- 1 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 1 Pharmaceutical Isolators.
Getting a 'Maxed' G5 costs on average about
- 500 Cadmium
- 500 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 500 Pharmaceutical Isolators.
New system:
Just getting a G5 costs about
- 9 Specialised Legacy Firmware
- 6 Mechanical Equipment
- 3 Chromium
- 3 Configurable Components
- 3 Modified Consumer Firmware
- 3 Selenium
- 1 Cadmium
- 1 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 1 Pharmaceutical Isolators
Getting a 'Maxed' G5 costs on average about
- 9 Specialised Legacy Firmware
- 6 Mechanical Equipment
- 3 Chromium
- 3 Configurable Components
- 3 Modified Consumer Firmware
- 3 Selenium
- 3 Cadmium
- 3 Cracked Industrial Firmware
- 3 Pharmaceutical Isolators
It's easy to see that a top G5 is much easier to get while a basic G5 is harder to get. Getting a component past G4 takes some collecting now, while 'maxing out' is relatively quick. Your personal requirements for module quality will determine if this is more or less work.
The new system has the advantage of the materials broker, to ease the voyage a bit. It also has the advantage of allowing a special effect to be put on at any stage of the upgrade process, without having to reapply it later.
It's apples and oranges, but I think I prefer the new system.
You are wrong my friend. He could have upgraded after three rolls but they didn't notice. Re-watch it. The average is 2.8.
So some of the arguments have moved from grind to not wanting to click a button on the upgrade screen a few times? Really?
Jesus. I understand not wanting to do the rest of it, but clicking a button should be the last thing someone complains about. Stick with the grind argument. Pls, makes more sense.
I once had to click a button two thousand times in a game to divide money up between a friend and I. Not exaggerating at all. Only complaint? My controller didn't like it.
Jesus. I understand not wanting to do the rest of it, but clicking a button should be the last thing someone complains about. Stick with the grind argument. Pls, makes more sense.
I once had to click a button two thousand times in a game to divide money up between a friend and I. Not exaggerating at all. Only complaint? My controller didn't like it.
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And even then the G5 you get may not be any good with the current system. You would like want to have at least 3 set of materials to guarantee something reasonably good.
Now do it for a module where you just currently want 3-4 G5 rolls to get a fairly good outcome?
Do it for a trade Anaconda where you simply want to quickly get an upgraded FSD and Thrusters? Compare the number of rolls and worse still the micro-mangement of needing to keep track of ideally everything that's needed for G1 rolls, G2 rolls, G3 rolls, G4 rolls etc...