The credits per hour and the 'end game'

[StiTch]

Activities in ED are so badly balanced that whether you end up flooded with money or not can be down to sheer coincidence.

Haulage pays well, smuggling is the same thing (but illegal) and pays poorly.

Passenger missions pay well, exploration or piracy pay poorly.

...

Scrap that, I'm with OP - what am I thinking?! The payouts aren't so much arbitrary as directly opposite to what they should be; all the boring, repetitive activities pay well. I'm glad I came into most of my cash when CZ missions could be completed concurrently.

 

[SkyB]

At first I just wanted an ASP for exploration, then I put my eyes on a python, then an anaconda.
I do not like constant selling and buying. I rather buy top end equipment right at the beginning and learn how to use it properly as this is what I want to use at the end anyways under the condition I know I will keep that hobby for a long time.
I also tend to do this at different hobbys which means I usually start with upper mid to lower high end equipment to grow into it.
This is why I took part in the killing of drones on a planet surface when it was lucrative.
The regular mission rewards were just too low, also there were quite a few bugs and I got tired of stealing kills at res sites only to be killed by a conda or whatever. Also, I had to discover the third party tools before I started to understand Elite - this is its greatest weakness.

It got me my Conda in no time and by now I am able to pilote it well, engineered it decently and enjoy its versatility and amazing firepower.
I never got destroyed in combat.
Also, I got myself an exploration ASP, a fun sidewinder and a smuggeling cobra.

At the moment I run passenger missions to get elite at trading for shinrarta dezhra.
With small ships this would take a lot of time which contradicts my desire of being efficient.
Bigger ships open up possibilities I'd not have with smaller ones like soloing a cyclops or getting top ten at trading cqs at no time.

 

[fabittar]

This is perhaps my one serious complaint about the game so far: I feel that Thargoids as an in-game activity is not appropriate content for small ship owners. A little more variety in Thargoid ship sizes should fix it, tho.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

This is perhaps my one serious complaint about the game so far: I feel that Thargoids as an in-game activity is not appropriate content for small ship owners. A little more variety in Thargoid ship sizes should fix it, tho.

In the Beyond Beta there's a new class of Thargoid, the Scout. They should be perfectly doable (albeit a bit of a challenge) in small ships.

 

[Baton]

Now, about the End Game. People ask, "What's your end game ship?

Asp, flying one for close to a year now probably (three Cutters and others thing are covered in dust on some forgotten station....)

 

[SAB380]

Is that a problem though? If that's what someone's chosen to do, who's to say that it's the incorrect way for them to play?

It’s a fine way to play and a fine end game ship.
I’ve been a Python exclusive guy in the past. For probably a year straight at one point. I’m currently into the Clipper which is even cheaper.
It doesn’t change the fact that if you want to play with one of the larger end game ships then it takes a hell of a lot more credits to get the ship ready and you need a lot more spare to ensure a couple of rebuys.
That’s where the need for credits comes from.

 

[Hooplah]

It has all been said 10,000 times before discussing this. Playing the game is all about the entertainment value one derives from it. If amassing billions of credits is your thing then go for it. If grinding for credits is frustrating, placing personal rules and limits on your play style, why it isn't the proper PVP game like others, worrying about how others play, what they have and you don't then perhaps you are not choosing your playing style wisely.

ED can be frustrating especially surviving the first 20 hours without totally losing everything not having a rebuy. Any style of play has a large learning curve. Ironically it seems quite easy once a player has the moves down. Still a Google search will provide many answers including 'how to' videos.

I cruise along in my trader Cutter making measly millions at dozens of allied factions, jump into a Fer de Lance for some conflict zone play, take my 'space lobster' Vulture or AspX out for meet-n-greet, cruise in a combat Corvette in Open watching other players suddenly disappear, go mining in a Clipper, travel the galaxy in an explorer Anaconda, take passengers to tourist sites in an Orca and take some surface missions in a Python. All with multiple accounts and there is still a lot I have never even tried. For me that is a lot of entertainment value.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Getting an Anaconda, Python, Cutter etc by grinding is one of the worst things you can do (unless you are one of the few who actually enjoys grinding and if so, great, get it). If you are grinding then you probably don't want to be doing it.

Well, I wanted Anaconda for very long range exploration (because no other ship really comes close in jump range, it gives a very *noticeable* advantage).

I wasn't grinding, and in ~600 hours of "normal" gameplay (that's about 4 years since game launch), I've managed to amass just ~250 mils in total assets (that's not free money and mostly was tied in current ships and rebuy reserve). So I was nowhere close to progressing on ship ladder and was basically stuck.

Only due to recent money train I was finally able to progress further.

Locking existing content from people by excessive game time requirements is pretty pointless and not so great mechanic IMO. If I would be a game dev I would want people to be able to experience as much content as its there, not to restrict them.
I am not saying you should get Big 3 instantly/without much effort, but "requirements to get them as FDev intended" seem to be over the top to me.

 

[babelfisch]

There was another thread recently where players posted how much money they make per hour. I couldn't check in game until now and I can't be bothered to search for the thread right now. Anyway, everyone earned something like 3-10 million per hour and for me it's just 539.000. I guess I play the game very different than most people. But I also complain less than most people, so maybe my attitude to credits isn't that bad...

 

[Adhock]

I've always said the main 'problem' of Elite Dangerous was the fact it was a Sandbox game.

Hardly a problem at all for someone like me who enjoys building castles from sand.

Yet the vast majority of games out there are liner themepark experiences.

And that's fine too.

I see the 'problem' in that many people come to Elite and expect some kind of storyline. Something that will hold their hand and guide them toward a goal of sorts. Even the X series had this and SC has a storyline that's supposed to give you a leg up in the aimless online mode. (At least that's what I found out.)

Elite does nether of these things. You're dropped in a Sidewinder into a random station (or at least one designated as the starter station these days) and left to your own devices. No quests. No overarcing plot. You, your ship, and the endless possibilities.

Oh sure, missions can be taken as mini-quests but there's no progression in any sort of plot. There are CGs but that's the sort of thing a new player has to *gasp!* research.

This is seen as a weakness by many who play the game for the first time. With no goal and left to their own devices, they will seek the biggest most powerful tools in an attempt to 'beat' the game. In the case of Elite, achieving one of the Big Three. These ships are incredibly expensive and in their need to get to the end as fast as possible. People will attempt to grind their way directly into one of those ships and once they have it then they have to ask the question, "now what?"

Most will never have an answer.

They never learned to play the game and decide for themselves what they were going to do with said Frigate class after achieving it.

I honestly think that the Sandbox element is what makes Elite special and is it's strength in a world where it's surrounded by Themepark experiences. It is a unique experience. It's not for everyone. Anyone who wants to play this game needs to understand that there is no liner path and that you have to take the time to ask yourself "what am I going to do next?" and do it since the game won't tell you what your goal is.

 

[Shiro Akai]

As much as I agree.... I don't agree with you. Paradox? Maybe. Not entirely. But first things first.

Everything has problems. That's called life.

I think I'll frame it and put it on the wall. Short, simple. Wise. And straight to the point.

To me, looking at things from a credits per hour standpoint is just about the worst thing you can do (unless you enjoy grinding). I know, you want a python, or an Anaconda, or a Beluga or [insert ship class here]. "I need a high credits per hour to get that ship." Poppycock!! Getting an Anaconda, Python, Cutter etc by grinding is one of the worst things you can do (unless you are one of the few who actually enjoys grinding and if so, great, get it). If you are grinding then you probably don't want to be doing it.

Agree, approaching to your goal from "I need money therefore I grind" is bad. By the time you get there you are so exhausted that you don't enjoy the reward.

I have never done the grind. Even though I'm an Ensign in the Federal Reserve. And I have 2 pythons. I had a Python and a Type 9, but I sold the type 9 cause it just wasn't fun to fly. So now I have a death machine Python, and an unarmed freighter Python. But the closest I came to grinding was in that T-9 and only because it maneuvered like a mobile asteroid. I didn't like it so I sold it for something that is actually fun to fly.

Now that's subjective, personal. You found your play style and enjoy it. Good for you. My play style is somewhat different and I don't find yours interesting. In my case your scenario does not apply.

I just play the game. No grind, no doing stuff I don't want to do. Just. Play. The. Game. The credits will come quickly enough. Remember, as with a lot of things in life, Elite Dangerous is not about the destination, it's about the journey. Grind if you want, hey everyone has different preferences, but if grind isn't your thing (it's not for most, but maybe it is for you) then don't do it. Just play the game.

True, except it isn't. Bold part especially. Where I agree to "just play game" idea I don't see how I can afford anything in foreseeable future. Simple example: Anaconda (I already have one but for the sake let's assume I want another one, combat version, ok?). Basic hull is ~150 M. A-rated Anaconda is 479 M. And that is BEFORE weapons, utility, armor, etc... For the sake of example - assuming 500 M (A-rated, no weapons + 1 rebuy), tho finally it can burn 1 B.

I have trader Python. During my usual play session I can make 1-5 M. Let's make it 2.5 M average per session.
Goal: 500 M
possible: 2.5 M / session
math: 500 / 2.5 = 200 sessions.

Assuming 1 session per day - 200 days. Which is 6.6 months. Of playing daily. Day after day. Six and a half months.
I wouldn't exactly call that "quickly enough".

I can be patient. Very patient. I can endure things while waiting for outcome. But knowing beforehand that you must dedicate next HALF of the year just to get ship which would require ANOTHER half of a year of playing BEFORE you can actually do what you planned... I just leave it at here.

Now, about the End Game. People ask, "What's your end game ship? I guess I'm at the end game then, cause for me, the Python is the end game ship. And I still play and will continue to play. I purely love the Python. Yeah, it's got a thin skin. No, the jump range isn't the greatest. But in the right hands it maneuvers very well and is a joy to fly. But no matter what ship is your end game ship, once you get it, play the game and enjoy it. They say play your way? Well, if you have your end game ship, you can play your way. But (and here's the most important part) have fun. That's the whole point of this exercise.

Lucky you that you found your end game. Mine is to own Anaconda, Cutter and Corvette, along with T-10 and Chieftain. Anaconda I already have, Chieftain will be no problem. The rest require mere 500 M (not to mention rep unlock). When I will have them I can say then I'm at my end game. After I outfit them to my liking which will probably burn additional 1 - 1.5 B.

Knowing all of the above I just dropped all activities and went back to Adder. My earnings dropped to about 100-200 k per session. At this pace I'll amass enough credits for Chieftain in about... 3 months... 120 M for T-10... don't even want to calculate.

 

[lmp1986]

For those of us who prefer spaceships to aircraft, on it's worst day ED provides more content than a flight-sim does.

As a flight sim fan I assure you that's not even remotely true.

 

[Kaltern]

As a flight sim fan I assure you that's not even remotely true in my opinion.

FTFY.

 

[lmp1986]

Why didn't you "fix" the original post then? It's less of an opinion?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Why didn't you "fix" the original post then? It's less of an opinion?

I think the "For those of us who prefer spaceships to aircraft" bit kinda did that.

 

[signal11th]

There is no endgame. But people seem to think that getting one of the big three is endgame. Poppycock is what I say to that.

Well I have a conda but spend 99% of my time in the ASP I bought 2 weeks into the game.

 

[gooddoc]

Well I have a conda but spend 99% of my time in the ASP I bought 2 weeks into the game.

spent a lot of time in my Asp, I went to Beagle Point in it for the DWE a couple of years ago. Upon return the sold Exploration data bought me a 'Conda. Iv now got a decent fleet, Cutter, Corvette, 'Conda, Python, a couple of Asp's plus other smaller ships.
my goto ship is the 'Conda, modified it well, waiting to see what the FINAL Engineer's update version is. That will give me an idea of how many modules will be repeated using the new update - that's for all of my ships.

I'll see whether to bother with the Chieftain, I never needed the last added ships, so didn't buy them.

So you could say Iv reached my end point ship, but not the end point of the game, which doesn't have one. Looking forward to the DWE2 trip later this year!
I

 

[JesusOnEez]

I totally agree with the OP. Rather than any 'end game' I find the game Is about 'goals'. Finish one goal, start another. Have a long term goal interspersed with short term goals to get you there.

Personally, my long term goal is to collect all the ships and keep them equipped for what they are generally designed for. For example;

Sidewinder - I use this occasionally for zippy fun in a Res, equipped with Beam and Rail.
Eagle - I use this for fun 'metagaming' where I interdict much larger ships...sometimes I like to be a suicide pirate.
Hauler 1 - Equipped for rares runs.
Hauler 2 - Engineered taxi called the 'Yellow Streak". I bought a yellow pain job for it. For zipping about the bubble to CG destinations.
Adder - My least favourite ship. Res equipped.
Imperial Eagle - Interdiction and KWS machine.
Viper - Res equipped.
Cobra Mk III - Equipped for black box and salvage operations.
Viper Mk IV - Res equipped.
Diamondback Scout - Full minigun Res equipped.
Cobra Mk IV - CZ equipped.
Type 6 - Haulage.
Dolphin - Passengers.
Diamondback Explorer - Exploration vessel.
Imperial Courier - One of my favourites kitted for Res.
Keelback - Mining in a Res. Love this role. Fighter equipped.
Asp Scout - Exploration.
Vulture - Res.
Asp Explorer - Exploration.
Federal Dropship - Kitted for Res and Salvage ops.
Type 7 - Haulage. Currently using for CGs.

Now my short term goal is to run Federal missions to increase my rank to get closer to my long term goal - next ship for me is the FAS.

It's taken me two years to get this far. I have 120,000,000 in cash reserves, so it's going to take me an age to get the rest of the ships, but I'm in no hurry. I'm not going to grind to do it. If what I'm doing starts to get boring I go do something else in another ship. Cash will come naturally over time.

Once I've got all the ships?

A circumnavigation of the galaxy may well be my next long term goal. I will after all have an Anaconda at that point that I can (short term goal) engineer.

I don't begrudge those people that enjoy the grind, but somehow feel they might be missing out on something, but still...

...play it your way.

 

[sollisb]

Said it before but people are quite happy to invest thousands of hours into things like FSX and there's (almost) nothing to do at all, aside from piloting the plane.
It's just a case of start the game up, decide to fly from, say, Manchester to Liverpool and that's your lot for a couple of hours.
You can look at the hills and the roads and the buildings as you travel but that's about it.

For those of us who prefer spaceships to aircraft, on it's worst day ED provides more content than a flight-sim does.
There's enough stuff on the Canonn website (bless 'em[up]) to keep me playing ED for years without wanting to make another credit, unless I was forced to.

This is entirely untrue!!

Take it from someone who spent 4 years building a complete 737 Cockpit around Flight Sim.

While EliteDangerous is for me an 'experience', it is not even close to FlightSim.

In ED, you want to fly to Colonia? You ask the system to plot your course, sit there and do each jump, scoop, scan, jump.. etc until you get there.

Now in FlightSim, You want to fly DUB -> London Heathrow. First check weather, create flight plan, submit flight plan to online ATC, get approval. Key FP into Flight Management System (FMS). Request Engine start/Push Back from online ATC, Get Taxi Clearance, Get Take Off Clearance, fly on outbound heading to 5000ft, then get FP clearance and let FMS take over. During flight monitor flight plan, weather and react to online ATC. Accept various ATC handovers as you enter their airspace. When landing, intercept glide scope, accept clearances and clearance to land. At 2000 ft take manual control to fly the landing.

Each and every flight, while maybe taking the same route, is different. Different weather, different flights around you, and different weather.

Now, I had a 5 server, 6 screen + FMS cockpit. DOing all the above while having full control of all switches (I had around 200) is by no means simple, and yes, we took it very seriously.

Add into all that, the building, the fabrication, the electronics, the writing of software etc, all added up to an absolute amazing experience.

ED graphically a visual feast especially in VR. Other wise it's bland in relation to FS and way more buggy.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I know this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating.

First, I love this game. Yeah, it's got some problems. Everything has problems. That's called life. But for all its faults, I still love it.

I read posts on here about credits per hour and the Grind and the End Game. To me, looking at things from a credits per hour standpoint is just about the worst thing you can do (unless you enjoy grinding). I know, you want a python, or an Anaconda, or a Beluga or [insert ship class here]. "I need a high credits per hour to get that ship." Poppycock!! Getting an Anaconda, Python, Cutter etc by grinding is one of the worst things you can do (unless you are one of the few who actually enjoys grinding and if so, great, get it). If you are grinding then you probably don't want to be doing it. I have never done the grind. Even though I'm an Ensign in the Federal Reserve. And I have 2 pythons. I had a Python and a Type 9, but I sold the type 9 cause it just wasn't fun to fly. So now I have a death machine Python, and an unarmed freighter Python. But the closest I came to grinding was in that T-9 and only because it maneuvered like a mobile asteroid. I didn't like it so I sold it for something that is actually fun to fly.

I don't do Trade CG's cause they obviously don't really care about their goal. I mean, they'll close their commodity market if they hit a rough patch. You want goods but you close your commodity market? [wacko] I just play the game. No grind, no doing stuff I don't want to do. Just. Play. The. Game. The credits will come quickly enough. Remember, as with a lot of things in life, Elite Dangerous is not about the destination, it's about the journey. Grind if you want, hey everyone has different preferences, but if grind isn't your thing (it's not for most, but maybe it is for you) then don't do it. Just play the game.

Now, about the End Game. People ask, "What's your end game ship? I guess I'm at the end game then, cause for me, the Python is the end game ship. And I still play and will continue to play. I purely love the Python. Yeah, it's got a thin skin. No, the jump range isn't the greatest. But in the right hands it maneuvers very well and is a joy to fly. But no matter what ship is your end game ship, once you get it, play the game and enjoy it. They say play your way? Well, if you have your end game ship, you can play your way. But (and here's the most important part) have fun. That's the whole point of this exercise.

The only flaw in that argument is the sandbox nature of elite (the same one which invalidates the credits per hour goal). If you're free to stay in your sidewinder for thousands of hours you're also free to utter the word "credits per hour" and be serious about it. You're also free to do nothing but read reddit for the latest guide and do nothing but that (you'll probably do well from that actually). That's just it, there's no wrong answer.