Mode switching for missions and Smeaton Orbital [200mill/hour]

I think the real issue is, even if they don't want to admit it, that they're looking for a way to reduce the value of those missions sufficiently that it isn't possible to become an overnight tycoon by mode-flipping.

That's a shame, IMO, because the idea of finding the occasional long-haul flight and being able to make a heap of credits from it is a good one.
The problem is that, in conjunction with mode-flipping, people aren't just getting a nice little bonus. They're getting ridiculously rich ridiculously quickly.
And then they're moaning that there's no content which they find challenging or engaging and that none of the other ships are as good as the Anaconda they bought after 6 hours playing.

Uh huh. Refs?
Do you know for sure how many "new" players did this, if any really did, not a CMDR who has other accounts and already has all the meta knowledge needed to accomplish this?
And if they did, was it because of threads like this making it so publicized that even the Pope heard about it?

A lot of these assumptions are just poppycock. It's possible to be done (under certain conditions), so everyone must be doing it, ya? Riiiiight.
 
Uh huh. Refs?
Do you know for sure how many "new" players did this, if any really did, not a CMDR who has other accounts and already has all the meta knowledge needed to accomplish this?
And if they did, was it because of threads like this making it so publicized that even the Pope heard about it?

A lot of these assumptions are just poppycock. It's possible to be done (under certain conditions), so everyone must be doing it, ya? Riiiiight.

May I suggest we consider the word: "Projection"
3.1 [count noun] A mental image viewed as reality.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/projection
 
PSA: This is the obligatory 50th-page thread summary that the community is obligated to render for those who haven't been immersed in this snake pit of a discussion since somewhere around post #100, and who have just now skipped to the vicinity of post #2500 to see what's been resolved and whether their sage input is needed. Here's the current status:

(1) Board flipping: The community is split (albeit not evenly) between three groups:
(a) Those who've adopted emotionally charged verbiage like "exploit" and "mission board molestation" to describe the practice of relogging and/or board flipping to stack missions and unbalance a game economy that, until mid-2017, had always been perfectly in balance, or was at least potentially recoverable, making credit-accumulation rates still somehow important. Generally, this "side" of the debate is pro-nerf, though many acknowledge shortcomings in the underlying mission-generating code base as being partially to blame for evilly tempting the other players into pursuing game-economy-destroying behaviors. Using logic, argumentative exposition, arcane references, authoritative citations, and (if memory serves) a couple chicken sacrifices, this segment stakes their position on the unshakeable conviction that human nature, and not INARA, is the greatest problem facing the Elite Dangerous community. Their position seems grounded in the fact that even though FDev has (repeatedly) addressed imbalances caused by the mission/passenger boards with "rebalancing" rather than "bug-fixing," ultimately the blame for this entire debacle lies squarely upon any human that's ever made more than one pass through whatever presentation RNGesus first chose to bestow upon entry to any given station -- and any players so guilty should do 1000 pushups and accept a pox upon all their houses! ...and maybe a permanent application of corrosive Thargoid spit upon their hull, or at least their pilot's seat.

(b) Those who believe board-hopping is such an obvious approach to the game, given the game client's architecture (years after launch and unchanged approaching v3.0's release), that it must have been (or at least currently is), an FDev design and use expectation. This group's position is largely based ultimately on ipso-facto arguments and a significant use of behavioral adverbs. They claim support for their beliefs with arguments like, (1) the lack of this being addressed in previous releases, or in the upcoming v3.0 release, or even with a bit of scratchy handwriting in the margins of the game's ToS, creates an implicit acknowledgement that board flipping is allowable game play. This segment further cites game events like this week's Community Goal ("Ram Tah's Last Hurrrah" [sic]) -- one of the few areas created by either FDev employees (or at least by t-shirt wearing satanic spawn working within the FDev aegis) (see what I did there?), where FDev literally puts players into direct competition with each other, awarding significant prize money to the strongest performers -- both endorses run-on sentences like this AND creates game play where you'd have to be a self-flagellating masochist to collect CG relics using "intended gameplay" instead of relogging with every 2T SRV load. This community segment says: FDev are pretty smart folks and you'd not be giving them any credit at all for naively believing that players should and would self-police their behavior, even when it puts them at (quite literally) a 10X disadvantage in competition with players who actively use a years-old feature of the game client.

(c) Those who're sitting back with a giant cup o' soda and a large buttered popcorn, marveling at all the sturm und drang, happy to have something to read while they continue to run the occasional passenger mission for the paltry 30-90M Cr per run (depending on location and the fickle favor of RNGesus). This community segment seems to be characterized by the philosophy, "Seriously dude? You can still make more than 30M Cr per run, 100M Cr per DAY, easy, post-nerf, and you're STILL belly-aching, despite FDev demonstrating that any future items or accomplishment of any real value (or advantage) in the game will NOT be tied to or purchased with Galactic Credits?" It's worth noting, this community group is believed to have the lowest blood pressure.

NOTE: Like most debates, both the (a) and (b) sides of this debate remain unshakeable in their belief that one can (and should!) change others' mind in an Internet argument, and that all doing so requires is the patience to present their perspective clearly and repeatedly, at least every tenth post.

There, did I leave anything out? ;-)
 
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There is no FFF because they are not morons and don't require our needy ramblings to know what the functional solution is.

Had you considered that they don't need to launch an FFF because we're already volunteering our dear Santa letters right here on this very thread? If there's a large number of whinge threads popping up separately and you want to provide a focus to reduce the amount of work required to manage them, an FFF makes good sense.

No, FDev are not morons. They're running a creative business that seems to appreciate being able to mould it's product offering to satisfy the demands it's customer base is requesting, in near real time on some occasions. Providing the forums at all was a smart business decision, and having your customers tell you what to sell them...

You can see how that might be advantageous, no?
 
Camisade - I think I know which group can boast their biggest Frontier participation percentage, lol

Great read, have a rep (though mere +1 doesn't do it justice)

EDIT: PS: When is point 2 coming? :D
 
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There, did I leave anything out? ;-)

You forgot (d) A small but highly vocal minority of (a) who, while repeatedly and unnecessarily demanding the immediate and permanent nerf of mode-switching due to economic unbalancing (or other randomly picked cherry of illogical circular reasoning), openly confess to exploiting said mechanic for personal gain within other parts of the software and lament said exploit being suspended, simultaneously hindering their own 'cheating'. This group then leaps to the conclusion that since they are so reviled by their own behaviour that everyone else MUST be doing exactly the same thing, absent any factual evidence to substantiate such a projection of internal self loathing. As a natural consequence of this dichotomy of opposition said minority inextricably bind themselves to a no-win position of inner conflict where they are both compelled to demand such a nerf while at the same time rendering themselves functionally unable to create, perceive or suggest any reasonable alternative, since they don't really want it nerfed at all and are simply deceiving themselves and any other unfortunate reader of their unhelpful, often vitriolic 'contributions'. This group (d) can often be seen insisting "That won't work..." yet failing to illuminate further on the mental gymnastics required to arrive at such a conclusion, then attempting to terminate any further discussion on the matter by misrepresenting previous posts they've failed to comprehend or manipulated into service of their negative attitude.

CAUTION! As a last line of defense for their fragile and irrational lack of flexibility or imagination group (d) has been known declare those they disagree with to be suffering from delusions, exhibiting problematic or inappropriate responses and may, if they 'feel' threatened, spit, scratch or even bite. Ensure you maintain a safe distance from these animals as there is no known antidote to screeching harpy venom and prolonged exposure to their toxic yet mysteriously engaging rhetoric has been known to induce exhaustion, desperation, depression, and in extreme cases may lead to suicidal thoughts in their victims.
 
May I suggest we consider the word: "Projection"
3.1 [count noun] A mental image viewed as reality.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/projection


Very apt. I tend to bring up this far too often...


Solipsism


Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.

It's fun seeing how the three modes apply to certain patterns of posting. Lends to a method of uncovering individual and group agendas.
 
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You forgot (d) A small but highly vocal minority of (a) who, while repeatedly and unnecessarily demanding the immediate and permanent nerf of mode-switching due to economic unbalancing (or other randomly picked cherry of illogical circular reasoning), openly confess to exploiting said mechanic for personal gain within other parts of the software and lament said exploit being suspended, simultaneously hindering their own 'cheating'. This group then leaps to the conclusion that since they are so reviled by their own behaviour that everyone else MUST be doing exactly the same thing, absent any factual evidence to substantiate such a projection of internal self loathing. As a natural consequence of this dichotomy of opposition said minority inextricably bind themselves to a no-win position of inner conflict where they are both compelled to demand such a nerf while at the same time rendering themselves functionally unable to create, perceive or suggest any reasonable alternative, since they don't really want it nerfed at all and are simply deceiving themselves and any other unfortunate reader of their unhelpful, often vitriolic 'contributions'. This group (d) can often be seen insisting "That won't work..." yet failing to illuminate further on the mental gymnastics required to arrive at such a conclusion, then attempting to terminate any further discussion on the matter by misrepresenting previous posts they've failed to comprehend or manipulated into service of their negative attitude.

CAUTION! As a last line of defense for their fragile and irrational lack of flexibility or imagination group (d) has been known declare those they disagree with to be suffering from delusions, exhibiting problematic or inappropriate responses and may, if they 'feel' threatened, spit, scratch or even bite. Ensure you maintain a safe distance from these animals as there is no known antidote to screeching harpy venom and prolonged exposure to their toxic yet mysteriously engaging rhetoric has been known to induce exhaustion, desperation, depression, and in extreme cases may lead to suicidal thoughts in their victims.

Good Grief!

What have you been drinking?

Can I have some please?
 
You forgot (d) A small but highly vocal minority of (a) who, while repeatedly and unnecessarily demanding the immediate and permanent nerf of mode-switching due to economic unbalancing (or other randomly picked cherry of illogical circular reasoning), openly confess to exploiting said mechanic for personal gain within other parts of the software and lament said exploit being suspended, simultaneously hindering their own 'cheating'. This group then leaps to the conclusion that since they are so reviled by their own behaviour that everyone else MUST be doing exactly the same thing, absent any factual evidence to substantiate such a projection of internal self loathing. As a natural consequence of this dichotomy of opposition said minority inextricably bind themselves to a no-win position of inner conflict where they are both compelled to demand such a nerf while at the same time rendering themselves functionally unable to create, perceive or suggest any reasonable alternative, since they don't really want it nerfed at all and are simply deceiving themselves and any other unfortunate reader of their unhelpful, often vitriolic 'contributions'. This group (d) can often be seen insisting "That won't work..." yet failing to illuminate further on the mental gymnastics required to arrive at such a conclusion, then attempting to terminate any further discussion on the matter by misrepresenting previous posts they've failed to comprehend or manipulated into service of their negative attitude.

CAUTION! As a last line of defense for their fragile and irrational lack of flexibility or imagination group (d) has been known declare those they disagree with to be suffering from delusions, exhibiting problematic or inappropriate responses and may, if they 'feel' threatened, spit, scratch or even bite. Ensure you maintain a safe distance from these animals as there is no known antidote to screeching harpy venom and prolonged exposure to their toxic yet mysteriously engaging rhetoric has been known to induce exhaustion, desperation, depression, and in extreme cases may lead to suicidal thoughts in their victims.

Gosh, you folks sound mightily pleased with yourselves.

Continually insult anybody who disagrees with you to the point where nobody has any interest in discussing the matter with you and then crow about how righteous you are.

What fun!
 
Camisade - I think I know which group can boast their biggest Frontier participation percentage, lol

Great read, have a rep (though mere +1 doesn't do it justice)

EDIT: PS: When is point 2 coming? :D

I'm afraid I ran out of steam! I think I started that post with three points to satirize, but by the end of point one figured I'd probably exhausted any likely readers!

You forgot (d) A small but highly vocal minority of (a) who, while repeatedly and unnecessarily demanding the immediate and permanent nerf of...

No, I couldn't have forgotten that -- I'm nowhere near that jaded with my fellow community members! ;-)

Oh, yeah, John Xenir! Now I remember! That second point was going to be The Status of The Passenger Mission Nerfing And Whether Sufficient Money Could Now Be Made Running Passenger Fares!

I believe I embedded one opinion in my portrayal of community group (c)'s actions. To wit: Who can possibly still be kvetching about this when one can still make between 30M (with little or no board flipping, in some systems) to 90M Cr (with gratuitous flipping), per run, after the nerf? (Especially when you combine passenger and data missions into the same run). But some are -- that was probably my PSA Status Point Two, before my combination of creeping senility and ADA caused my premature posting above!

Good Grief! What have you been drinking? Can I have some please?

I can only answer, "Why, my own Kool-Aid, of course!"
 
Wing cargo missions will solve the credit balance fairly in a very balanced way, and it will really add something that focus on COOP. This doesn't take away from the fact that there are people with 10+ billion credits in cash in the game, based on whatever exploit there was, but, it will add a good balance to how much you can earn / hour in a wing of either T9:s or Cutters. :)

Looking forward to actually play the game in order to make good money with a wing of friends, rather than gaming the play and be in Solo.
 
Wing cargo missions will solve the credit balance fairly in a very balanced way, and it will really add something that focus on COOP. This doesn't take away from the fact that there are people with 10+ billion credits in cash in the game, based on whatever exploit there was, but, it will add a good balance to how much you can earn / hour in a wing of either T9:s or Cutters. :)

Looking forward to actually play the game in order to make good money with a wing of friends, rather than gaming the play and be in Solo.

One can only hope, as long as those missions show up on the board when you actually want them. Although, it may be of significant benefit to be able to accept such missions despite being in the 'wrong ship' for the task.

While there appears to be a prolific misconception that any ED player with a large CR balance MUST have exploited an 'unintended' mechanic to achieve such wealth, Ram Tah was briefly paying CR 201 million for a five hour job.

While it lasted, a small fortune could be amassed in short order. Legitimate, astronomical earnings potential, which was also nerfed. Try not to be too shocked when bulk cargo opportunities upset those who are easily outraged.

New get rich quick content incoming. "Exploit" it quick before it's "rebalanced" ;)

[Edit: I should add that it's yet to be seen if a wing of four players can successfully spawn four compatible bulk cargo missions, or if the urge to board-flip will prevail.]
 
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Very apt. I tend to bring up this far too often...


Solipsism


Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.

It's fun seeing how the three modes apply to certain patterns of posting. Lends to a method of uncovering individual and group agendas.

While I've noticed examples of such limited postulation, it might be worth considering another cognitive dissonance inspiring paradox of ancient spiritual philosophy related to the traditional greetings "Namaste" or, "In la kesh" wherein one individual recognises and honours the uniquely divine connection to themselves in another being.

In short, and more recently summarised by Austrian Nobel Prize winning physicist, Erwin Schrödinger when observing: "The total number of minds in the universe is one."
 
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