Maybe they don't see that as a major issue, or they saw the current situation as an exploit which it is now closing.
Proposal Discussion Kill Warrant Scanner Feedback
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
- Start date
Maybe they don't see that as a major issue, or they saw the current situation as an exploit which it is now closing.
StefanOS
Volunteer Moderator
On
1) Add to this every LOCAL bounty - from all fractions !
Upon a successful scan, the KWS will detect every bounty for factions aligned with the same superpower and EVERY faction IN the current system (so we get also the independent).
2) What’s more, the KWS scan will *legitimise* attack against the scanned ship for you and any wingmen. This freedom to attack will expire once the target leaves the system via hyperspace jump. Just going to SC is not enough!
3)The KWS will detect all Interstellar bounties on a target vessel. However, it does not legitimise attack, so you still will have to break the law to collect them if the Interstellar bounty is for a different superpower than the current jurisdiction is alinged to. - Exception see 1) local bounties of all fractions in the system should legitimize attack in the system after KWS scan - we have to think about the INDEPENDENT systems!
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Well, they don't at the moment, because it's a waste of a slot which could go on more chaff, heat sinks or shield boosters ... and in 2.4 because PvP bounties are global anyway.
With the changes proposed - superpower bounty detection, right to attack legally, etc. - it might actually be worthwhile to carry one.
(Were the T-7 buffs in Beyond an entirely wasted effort because hardly anyone uses the T-7?)
For me the painful part is that the proposed change will indeed create a new way of sabotaging CGs. With some BGS work, you can push factions down the ladder far enough to not give bounties any more. (How easy or hard that is can probably answered by some people who really focus on BGS manipulation. I know that is can and has been done and with the new KWS it'd be another option for sabotage. )
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So i think a PvP/PvE split might indeed be in order. I mean, i fully get the idea of bounties being on one ship and them not being cleared all at once. I am not in full sympathy with the reasons given, but i can accept them. But i yet have to observe one NPC, who actually returns to a station to switch to a clean ship.
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As punishment, rebuy and detention are no factors for NPCs, there's also no need to limit the KWS when scanning them. Simply put the old spread of bounties on them, while the new "only the highest additional bounty counts" applies only to players. Then CGs can't be broken by it (only slowed down), while it still achieves the set goal for player interaction.
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So i think a PvP/PvE split might indeed be in order. I mean, i fully get the idea of bounties being on one ship and them not being cleared all at once. I am not in full sympathy with the reasons given, but i can accept them. But i yet have to observe one NPC, who actually returns to a station to switch to a clean ship.
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As punishment, rebuy and detention are no factors for NPCs, there's also no need to limit the KWS when scanning them. Simply put the old spread of bounties on them, while the new "only the highest additional bounty counts" applies only to players. Then CGs can't be broken by it (only slowed down), while it still achieves the set goal for player interaction.
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That's some high level fantasy though. BGS can't be manipulated at that level so fast. CGs doesn't happen in small systems neither.
The main issue I see is in these lines. It could be fixed by adding a top cap, so it doesn't really matter if you have killed 100 or 1000, you still have to pay for it, but why not making a criminal pay for all its crimes when it is in a detention center? even SIN brokers have access to all fines/bounties etc.
I'm not arguing BGS effects or kws bonus pay, just the fact that this change comes to protect criminals when they get killed.
Whatever revisions get the nod, I would simply like to see consistency regarding "players" vs. "NPCs", eg.
Player scans NPC
NPC "bounty hunter" scans Player
Player scans Player
Player scans NPC
NPC "bounty hunter" scans Player
Player scans Player
The proposal does bring the KWS most of the way back towards where it is now, and the legitimization of attack is a potentially interesting thing if there are enough Clean targets with other bounties to make it worth scanning them in the first place.
I'm still not sold on whether the C&P system will work as intended at all, which is why I'm resistant to using it to justify nerfs elsewhere.
If the persistence of bounties beyond initial punishment, along with further additional depth to Bounty Hunting features later in Beyond, does lead to some compelling gameplay for both PvE and PvP, then I'll be all for it.
What would be potentially interesting is if the KWS revealed all bounties, but only let you cash in the ones relevant to the Detention Center assigned to the criminal.
Then you would actually know if the target was worth hunting down again in another jurisdiction.
To support that, the game would need the NPCs to become semi-persistent, and you'd actually need some tools to do the hunting part.
As far as the T7 goes, it was the wrong buff - Medium pads for the win.
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I wouldn't expect that to be a problem for BH CGs. The CGs always (occasional setup bugs aside) accept bounties for the system controlling faction, and sometimes for those of the same superpower. The existence of the BH CG will tend to boost (significantly) the influence of that controlling faction, especially if there's a trade CG alongside it. Controlling factions issue significant bounties even if dropped to 1% influence, too, it's only non-controlling factions that get suppressed a bit.
While the current KWS to go live in 3.0 will make it generally counter-productive to carry one to a CG, I think these proposals would generally be fine for it: you'd in most cases get the bounties the CG needed and not the ones it didn't.
I have seen a situation (under the existing pre-3.0 system) where a CG could have been disrupted by a change in controlling faction ... but that process takes several days and it was only by the coincidence that the War was already Pending before the CG was announced. In this case, the PMF attempting to take control of the system voluntarily backed off to allow the CG to complete, then grabbed it a couple of weeks later when it wouldn't do any harm.
But that situation has nothing to do with the KWS rules, and would for a typical one-week CG be almost impossible to pull off in time - 1 day to equalise, 3 day conflict pending, minimum 3 day duration - in absolutely ideal situations, if you got lucky with the tick time relative to the CG cycle, and no-one tried to oppose you either deliberately or just by doing the CG you might be able to make things quite a bit more difficult for the last half-day of the CG.
Seems like a lot of CMDRs get it.. but a lot of them don't.
PvE bounty hunting doesn't pay extraordinarily well. It's a good living, but no one is getting rich off of it. It is fun though. The complaints about the new KWS mechanic are NOT about credits. People will continue to PvE bounty hunt even if it paid 2cr per ship, they might not be happy about it, but they'd do it.
The problem with the new KWS is losing minor faction rep even though I'm killing criminals for them, because even though those ships are wanted by those minor factions I don't get to turn in the bounties for them, so my rep drops.
I like to maintain at least neutral rep with every faction in the galaxy. I will not be able to bounty hunt in systems for more than an hour or two with the new KWS.
PvE bounty hunting doesn't pay extraordinarily well. It's a good living, but no one is getting rich off of it. It is fun though. The complaints about the new KWS mechanic are NOT about credits. People will continue to PvE bounty hunt even if it paid 2cr per ship, they might not be happy about it, but they'd do it.
The problem with the new KWS is losing minor faction rep even though I'm killing criminals for them, because even though those ships are wanted by those minor factions I don't get to turn in the bounties for them, so my rep drops.
I like to maintain at least neutral rep with every faction in the galaxy. I will not be able to bounty hunt in systems for more than an hour or two with the new KWS.
What PvPer - none of whom do it for the money anyway - is going to make their ship weaker for the chance that the person they are going to kill accidently shot a civy and got a 5k bounty shooting a cop before escaping 3 weeks prior to their encounter? I mean really? Why bother? And if your opponent hasn't weakend their ship that could be the difference between winning and losing the fight, so who will take that risk with a possible massive rebuy on the line?
And the fact remains....the devs could have made it worthwhile to carry one for PvP if they wanted to do that without nerfing it (Sandro's words) if PvE!
Exactly
And it's odd that considering how many posts there are on this and the "save the KWS" thread you still regularly see the "ah just buff payouts a bit devs that'll sort everything thats all anyone cares about" posts [blah]
What can't you turn in the bounties for the faction and get rep with the new KWS mechanic?
Under the 3.0 system, nope. Not unless they are the highest on the list. The highest on the list is all you get, hence a lot of the confusion or concern. No ancillary super power rep, no rep for other factions within the system. Just the most valuable one.
See https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ant-Scanner!?p=6417448&viewfull=1#post6417448 for an example.
If you are in the jurisdiction you want to bounty hunt in, then you don't need the KWS. Just do a normal scan to see if they are wanted in the system. Attack then hand in your bounties as normal. If you are a bounty Hunter, I have to assume you don't care about the BGS so the new version looks good for bounty hunting.
Sorry, but I see no issues here.
I tested it in the beta quite a bit (while also testing out the Chieftain, which is nice!). The new KWS only lets you turn in the highest bounty on a ship. After hours of bounty hunting I found that I had a ton of bounties for the controlling faction, a lot for the superpower associated with that minor faction, and a little bit for one other faction in that system. That left 4 or 5 factions in that system that I turned in ZERO bounties for, and my rep declined with all of them because of that.
The proposal in this thread will give you, say ALL Imperial bounties on a ship(If the controlling faction is Imperial), but none of the others in that system. So while it is a step in the right direction, it still doesn't solve the problem.
If this is allowed to go through, everyone who bounty hunts in one system for more than a few hours WILL become unfriendly or worse with many of the minor factions in that system. Even though you are killing criminals.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
I can tell you that in my 300-strong group we have A LOT of bounty hunters who care about our BGS and the main way of their contribution to it is via BH-ing... Be it in our systems or the other ones that we manipulate to achieve our goals.
Shocker, innit?
I can tell you that in my 300-strong group we have A LOT of bounty hunters who care about our BGS and the main way of their contribution to it is via BH-ing... Be it in our systems or the other ones that we manipulate to achieve our goals.
Shocker, innit?
Sorry, but i should have explained better. Sure as someone who pushes your chosen faction, then sure bounty hunting in your own system is good. But for people that roam around the bubble only doing bounty hunting, then I see the BGS as secondary to credits.
But if you are pushing your faction, then you don't need a KWS as it is now in live. So I see no issues.
Not too sure what the shocker is. I have been messing around with the BGS since the early days. But really see no issues. If anything it means you will need to interact with the faction in more ways instead of just one.
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Maybe this will help..
System ruled by independent Faction A, but has imperial factions B,C,D and E
CG says Faction A wants to get rid of pirates.
Ship 1 belongs to Faction C, but highest value is for Faction A. it has also bounties from Faction C
Old system, you get faction A rewards, but also Faction C likes you a little more as you got rid of someone they wanted dead. The empire also likes you a little more as faction C is imperial
New system(3.0 beta), you get faction A rewards but now Faction C likes you less because you blew up one it's members, as does the empire.
You decide the CG system isn't working well. so you move to system ran by Faction D, which has a haz res
Ship 2. Belongs to faction D and the highest value belongs to Faction D. BUT it also has bounties belonging to faction C
Old system you get something to go towards the CG, new ship you don't as Faction D is greater.
In addition, having the best way to achieve a bounty hunting goal by not carrying a bounty hunting device seems a little... odd.
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