Oh my, this one ran away from me... Where was I...
I can and yes I can, and yes I do
Play in PG. C&P not required.
Brevity mastered! Awesome!
Can't rep you again, but you are doing well
This right there ^
Thanks guy's
Yes, that's also a serious problem ..... they are likely to have credits coming out of their ears in the first place
I guess the other enforcement alternative, with SJA's advanced tactical weaponed-NPCs take over if they continue in their killing spree.
I do love that woman! She sure kicks butt!
Huh? Traders use large fuel scoops? I doubt that, except for rares traders.
If you are doing a few hops then you might use the better part of a tank, but still shouldn't require a scoop. Your cr/hr would drop too low with too many jumps. Worst case scenario, drop a small scoop on for a one time refuel, or add an extra fuel tank and double your range.
I do generally agree with you! By and large, anything more than 3 jumps away (6min loop) isn't profitable. If it's a long haul like Sothis Biowaste runs then yes a scoop works. At CGs I'd park the 8A scoop on the Cutter (yes, some people do buy them!) and fit a cargo rack (ship it from shin usually). However, explaining every eventuality would make for a very tedious post! I way trying to get the idea across more than build accuracy... As it was I still put in way more details than needed in the OP.
"you pay 10% per point of notoriety of the difference between your rebuy cost and your victims rebuy cost".
Difference?
just 10% (per point) of the difference?
Make it the whole cost, not just the difference.
This will not significantly affect piracy or consensual PvP: Pirates want cargo, not kills.
Consensual PvPers typically turn off "Report crimes against me".
THAT THERE ^^^^ is closer to the point! Why the difference? Why not the whole cost? Why that variable?
Thing is the objective is to be in the least expensive ship you can manage, to have the greatest difference between yourself and your attacker. The greater the price difference, the greater their costs. So for a T-7, you'd want:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_7_t...18aQ==.Aw18aQ==..EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=
We could potentially make a new game of "Counter Griefing", by flying swarms of small, weak ships into the line of fire of griefer murdermobiles, and see if we can't wrack them up Bankruptcy in rebuy costs.
See how this becomes an "Arms Race" real fast?
Personally, I'd just as soon leave people alone to play.
Interesting observations... But ultimately, I'm with you. I'd leave people alone to play. I'm very rarely in Open. Even way out in the black I'm in Solo because I can use the Alt-F10 to grab high res screen shots, which I can't use in Open...
In C&P, what the devs could have included is the cost of the cargo (x some multiply), unless they scoop it up
They could have done a whole load of different things! But fdev seem very cagey about going anywhere near cargo contents, maybe because of potential outliers like a large quantities of meta alloys worth 10s of millions...
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Dunno if it was conveniently left out, but combat hull types are by far the most expensive things to buy.
Besides, I'm pretty sure no one ever bought a class 8 fuel scoop. For the big ship, if you take the fastest route instead of the most efficient, a class 5 fuel scoop will be more than enough to top up your fuel tank while skimming the surface at full speed between arrival and departure. Anything bigger will be a waste of money.
Left out because even a lightly designed combat build (aka PvE combat build) where the build cost isn't much can usually kill an inexperienced trader. A PvP combat build is a no brainer, yes it's more expensive but its overkill for the task. You don't need the expensive pvp elements, just the super penetrator rail guns to take down the FSD.
Well, I've seen the 8a scoop mentioned a few times, I personally use the 6a scoop in my cutter.
It may also be worth mentioning, please don't use the chieftain posted in the op as a template for a combat chieftain lol.
It's was a stupid example build thrown together as an example ... LoL
Of course if you equip your ship poorly and put a useless fuelscoop that costs half your hull's value, chances are that a much cheaper combat build will kill you despite the fact TTKs are so insanely high and therefore heavily in favor of the defender.
In the bubble, an extra fuel tank makes a lot more sense than throwing money out the window with a fuel scoop. And what kind of trade route could be profitable enough to justify jumping further than what an extra fuel tank will allow?
By and large I agree with you. Mostly for the convenience though... Fuel scoops are insanely priced though and should be reduced.
OP, I don't think the C&P changes are designed to save traders from their own daft fitting choices.
Probably not... But I don't get this 'difference in rebuy cost' approach. It just feels wrong to me with too many caveats that nullify it's use, which is what I was trying to point out.
I've been deliberately avoiding most of this stuff, but still...
If they were looking for a way to compare relative combat ability, why wouldn't they just focus on, say, DPS?
That makes more sense to me! A trader's DPS will be zero... Even a newbies DPS will be low in an cobra or something, only a combat vessel will have high DPS? But then DPS isn't a good measure of effectiveness... A frag cannon can have DPS in the hundreds! My frag Python has a DPS over 500 but to use it you need to hit them at point blank range otherwise most of that DPS is lost. Lasers are only good at less than 1km because of their falloff etc. Hence, DPS is also a crude measure unfortunately.
I guess we are trying to nail down what this is trying to achieve and whether this variable is the right way to do it. Personally, I'm not convinced.
Probably because combat alone doesn't represent experience in the game.
An high-ranked Trader or Explorer should have enough nous about them to make a survivable fitting and have the smarts to get out of trouble.
That is from a PvP perspective though, unless you have specifically looked into pvp builds in depth and taken the time to know a good deal about weapon types and their possible modifications, you are not likely to know how a PvP combat pilot is outfitting their ship(s) to take yours down. A Trader or Explorer isn't likely to have read extensively on the PvP sub forum about build configs and flight strategies. They are probably mostly unaware of what can be done to stop them cold in their tracks! Put another way, a year or two trading or exploring the black doesn't represent experience in the game either...
I've played for more than a couple of years, but I would not like to pit my skills at evasion against a combat pilot! Even in my PvE Vette build, I know enough that I wouldn't last 15 seconds. In a trade build, Bah dead in a couple of heart beats. That's just me being realistic with myself.
Really interesting observation by the OP. It's these nuances that make the ED the choice for thinking players
However, there are just too many fit-out variations for combat and trading ships to draw a hard conclusion. FD have made it clear that the change to C & P is to discourage "seal clubbing" (Sandro actually used those words on the livestream) and I think it will probably have that effect. How well? Have to wait and see.
Agreed. The number of variables is horrendous! But I'm not convinced this will stop seal clubbing. In ships like a Vette possibly, but in smaller inexpensive ships like the Vulture... That is a different story and likely to be the new meta for griefers and gankers. Smaller cheaper builds with specialised weaponry for nailing their victims.
Hence, I don't think this will curb all but the most flagrant of abuses...
Is that what they're attempting to quantify here?
Cos, y'know, there's already a "time-played" stat' available which does that perfectly.
Seems, to me, that there's s two distinct things going on.
C&P should allude to whether or not you're doing illegal stuff and karma should allude to whether you're doing nice things or not.
For me, the C&P response to something like destroying another ship should be the same regardless of whether you use a Flying Death-Machine to kill a newbie in a Sidewinder or use a half-decent Vulture to kill an Elite CMDR in a T9.
The karma response would be the more nuanced one.
That should probably be based on how evenly-matched the ships are and the experience of the player, which leads to some difference in how things happen to you during subsequent play.
Things like, perhaps, finding tougher police-ships sent against you or an increased likelihood of being scanned etc.
I entirely agree with you! Reped. At the moment I'm only seeing one dimensions thinking on solving this problem, which is why this solution doesn't sit well with me.