Would you prefer C&P back how it was?

[ALGOMATIC]

Nah, it needs some work, bugs ironing out, perhaps closing of some loopholes, but i think the general system might as well stay, over complicated as it is.

I mean, we got a rework of engineers and rework of the crime and punishment system. That's two major reworks in one big patch. One wonders what else could have been done with that deveopment time instead?

And, at the end of the day, both were largely there to either appease or deal with PvPers in some way.

Its time for FD to fix the bugs and move on to developing content for the majority, not just a tiny subset of the community.

Having said that, the new Engineering system is probably better overall, although if they had just added the traders to the old system i would have been as happy as a pig in mud.

Except it werent PvPiers who asked for this, it was the shieldless traders who were deleted in seconds by gankers.

The problem is that the gankers wont be affected by this new C & P because they are smart enough to adapt. Engineers, however were given a nice buff (147% DD5 multiplier anyone?) so the power creep vs NPCs only became bigger, and ATR? Leave the game running and the notority goes back to 0.

Hope the meal you guys cooked tastes good.

 

[JohnnyDangerous]

I like the new system, and that’s coming from a guy that just got a little screwed by it because I didn’t quite understand what changed (I haven’t logged in since before the Thargoids showed up) and did some planetary scans in an Anaconda. That said, it makes far more sense now in that illegal activities matter, as a real consequence. Flatteringly enough, these rules are almost exactly what I proposed a few years ago shortly after the game came out of beta. Decisions matter, even to NPCs, but the systems are still localized so you can be a miscreant and terrorize one system in a Vulture, ditch that ship and be a peaceful explorer over in colonia.

 

[Sylow]

No need to roll back anything. I got me a bounty when going over my head trying to solo a wing assassination mission. It took me mere minutes to figure out how to solve things again.
.
So all i had to do was adapt, and even very little of that. So, whenever somebody goes as far as giving a griefer or a ganker just an evil eye, the crowds all shout to adapt. Apparently it's way to much to ask now from the other side? Good to know...
.

 

[nathdixon92]

Actually, i like this system. It might stop a few annoying sods from shooting System Authority of systems I'm trying to work on and reversing my work.

 

[Jorge Palu]

Isn’t Elite ‘Dangerous’ supposed to be dangerous?

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Isn’t Elite ‘Dangerous’ supposed to be dangerous?

The "Dangerous" is actually a reference to the Michael Jackson album.

 

[Spacecat]

It seems extremely convoluted. I was never a fan of linking crimes to ships. They should have just been linked to the Cmdr and murder fines increased. I do like the faction wide bounties though.

 

[nrage]

All it does is bump the suicidewinder up a couple grades though. And to certain folks ( myself may or may not be included ) a lesser boat like a Gunship, FDL, etc's insurance payout is pocket change at this point.

Except.. you don't just pay the insurance, you pay off the bounties too, and the bounties scale based on your ship, their ship and your notoriety. There is no longer any way to avoid paying the bounty, you either pay it, or live with being wanted in that jurisdiction forever more.

With a suicidewinder you could clear your bounties without paying them (you actually made them legacy fines - as seen here)

 

[nrage]

Reply to OP:

No, definitely not, the new system is mechanically better as well as being better from a lore perspective. It's not perfect, but the issues are minor and can be tweaked - like for example tweaking the amount of damage required to trigger a reckless fire type bounty. You might think it's a simple case of raising the absolute damage amount (but that only works so far, at some point the damage amount an engineered alpha strike can deal exceeds the shields of a starter ship and that absolutely has to trigger a bounty, as otherwise you'd have people "shield griefing" other players (because, lets face it, those people exist). You might think it's a simple case of limiting it to hull damage, but same issue (shield griefing). I reckon the better solution is to calculate the damage as a percentage of total shield or hull and trigger if it's over 5%, in a given span of time. Heck, it might already work that way, I can't tell.

 

[PeLucheuh]

I would prefer a better system including rewards opportunities for criminal activities (including murdering CMDRs). A gameplay based on risk/reward concept is good most of the time.

 

[Drelthar]

rewards opportunities for criminal activities (including murdering CMDRs)

That's called Powerplay.

It's pants, but that's where that part of the game is.

 

[xondk]

You can say it's logical, you can say the info is out there, you can say it was a good faith attempt to solve a problem, you can say what you like. The fact is the new C&P is ridiculously over complicated, fussy and has definitely caused more inconvenience to players playing legally but making the occasional mistake, than it has to the griefers.

Wait....what?
Over-complicated?, the instances of when you get a fine or bounty has not changed, what has changed is what happens when you do, in short the consequences, so how is it over complicated?
If you are saying its too strict and punishing, that's a whole different thing, but it certainly doesn't seem more complicated then before?

 

[Strangepork]

You can say it's logical, you can say the info is out there, you can say it was a good faith attempt to solve a problem, you can say what you like. The fact is the new C&P is ridiculously over complicated, fussy and has definitely caused more inconvenience to players playing legally but making the occasional mistake, than it has to the griefers.

Therefore I propose a rollback and looking at it again in a future update. Putting the bounty on the ships is so counter intuitive for one thing.

Solutions have to be simple, guys, new players are really going to struggle with the convolution, it took me some time to really understand what I need to do when something happens now (I do now, but it wasn't exactly clear, and I had to go forum trawling to find the info) and nobody is sure if their bounties, or the game's behaviour are bugs, because sometimes it seems so illogical or far removed from what it 'was', that we question if it can be intended, and of course sometimes it is bugs because we are in a fresh release.

Then there's the problems that several missions make you wanted by necessity. Who would do these now?

I know this is piddling into the wind, but I want to express that whatever 'this' is, it wasn't the right step to deal with griefing or make C&P more effective, fair or fun.

ALL THAT NEEDED DOING was some estra stuff as regards player vs player interactions. Not a change to the whole fundamental system.

I'm enjoying the consequences, it makes the game seem more real, I've already come a cropper at Shinrata, within 30 mins of the update. I clipped an NPC on the way out of the station, I assume it popped, I got a 10k fine.

 

[ShimEnki]

MMhh. I think if they can get a grip on the proportionality problem this system has then let's see how it goes.

But if they ain't going to do that than it's a [down] from me.

---------------------

Mainly though the issue to me is that I think in a Haz Res the friendly fire thresholds should be much higher, preferably only applying if there is actual hull damage.

Hazardous Extraction Area - Operate at your own risk.

Exactly.

If FD wants players to play with alert awareness and there be serious consequences to those that don't, then apply it as you mentioned in that
players must be alert to unwanteds of all types with their shields down and vulnerable. ANY contact with a shieldless unwanted ship shows murderous intent and then apply
the consequence equal to intent to murder at minimum.
Straight to detention and everything else.

BUT if all you are doing is contacting a shield and you do not have that ship targeted...all you might get is a message saying whatever. That goes for this nonsense of speeding contact. If I contact someone and there is no hull damage...leave it alone!

Friendly fire since I started playing has been a real drag and its even worse now.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Except it werent PvPiers who asked for this, it was the shieldless traders who were deleted in seconds by gankers.

The problem is that the gankers wont be affected by this new C & P because they are smart enough to adapt. Engineers, however were given a nice buff (147% DD5 multiplier anyone?) so the power creep vs NPCs only became bigger, and ATR? Leave the game running and the notority goes back to 0.

Hope the meal you guys cooked tastes good.

Well, you can tell yourself that, but i think you will find both PvPers and PvEers were calling for the changes.

And as noted, i think the new system is ok, just needs some bugs ironing out.... so, yeah, tastes good.

 

[Jmanis]

Nope. New cp is great. Now they need to make the hostile rep state follow these rules rather than denying docking access

To directly address missions which make you wanted, it's also fine. Just don't do missions for the factions you target, and use the same ship for crime

 

[MrFailfactory]

You can say it's logical, you can say the info is out there, you can say it was a good faith attempt to solve a problem, you can say what you like. The fact is the new C&P is ridiculously over complicated, fussy and has definitely caused more inconvenience to players playing legally but making the occasional mistake, than it has to the griefers.

Therefore I propose a rollback and looking at it again in a future update. Putting the bounty on the ships is so counter intuitive for one thing.

Solutions have to be simple, guys, new players are really going to struggle with the convolution, it took me some time to really understand what I need to do when something happens now (I do now, but it wasn't exactly clear, and I had to go forum trawling to find the info) and nobody is sure if their bounties, or the game's behaviour are bugs, because sometimes it seems so illogical or far removed from what it 'was', that we question if it can be intended, and of course sometimes it is bugs because we are in a fresh release.

Then there's the problems that several missions make you wanted by necessity. Who would do these now?

I know this is piddling into the wind, but I want to express that whatever 'this' is, it wasn't the right step to deal with griefing or make C&P more effective, fair or fun.

ALL THAT NEEDED DOING was some estra stuff as regards player vs player interactions. Not a change to the whole fundamental system.

I haven't read past the OP, so apologies if this has already been said numerous times:

I said a long time ago that any kind of C&P is wasted dev effort - it cannot be gotten right. It ends up being either too harsh, or not harsh enough, and just doesn't work.

World of Warcraft is killing their PvP servers with the next expansion, and making all servers PvE with a PvP opt-in toggle. They tried for almost a decade to get World PvP to work, but they have finally given up because it just doesn't. Frontier should take a page out of that book, and change Open to have a similar rule set.

It would give this game such a huge boost (even leaving Solo and PG as options, and they should), and it would eliminate all of the problems and complications that come from a PvP-enabled (but not PvP-centric) environment.

Once that is done, Frontier can look into developing criminal play, and consequence that doesn't have to take PvP into account at all. This would work so much better, it would be simpler, and it would likely be better received.

Riôt

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

I would simply for the significant annoyance factor in dealing with Interstellar Factors. I've already had an "oops, I effed up" moment in my Cutter that cost me time. Beyond that, I'm not bothered by it as I have little desire to waste time on skimmer missions. I have other ways of making money.

 

[Lukiepookie]

Wholeheartedly hope this system is scrapped/rebuilt from the ground up.

Notoriety is a joke. I don't really mind much else, maybe some of the good engineer rolls are a bit too easy to attain, but aye that's alright it's the over all min max of the build that makes it good (in pvp). Notoriety is absolutely terrible for the following examples

A player bounty hunter who has fun protecting traders in cg's now has waaaay less incentive to be as such any more. If a player bounty hunter receives a bounty, his downtime will literally be all day because of the anoyingly long winded system. The murder hobo he's hunting doesn't care about being wanted and will have literally no downtime. Problem not solved, problem made worse, trying to get back to the state to do what you enjoy in ED is now content.

You're encouraged to switch out of hot ships, but have to use the ship transport function in another system to do so, or just flat out buy a new ride. Sure that's working as intended. sure it is. Just pay off notoriety when it drops. If it drops. If you don't have either your bounty or notoriety bugged, then you're sol, but that's intended, so it's working. As intended, all good.

Run into a friend in a fighter, and they will get a 200cr bounty. That they won't be able to lose for at least 2 hours, if that system is working as intended. Which of course it is. All of their gear is hot, now if they don't switch it or pay their bounty first, they have a 30m grief charge they can't do anything at all about, even if it's just some random other player in a fighter who wanted to make them wanted. New and unnecessary problem, check.

Now I'm not sure when anybody asked for this ridiculously time sucking and convoluted system, but it benefits literally nobody since murder hobos will pvp anyway, they were okay with being wanted in the first place. To compound that, usually those pvp'ing are at the absolute endgame and are loaded for ships and credits.The worst part though, is that notoriety is based off a concept that is used in mobile gaming platforms. How immersive, thanks fdev.

 

[krylite]

Nope, the system is better imo, particularly more inline with many other mmos in the aspect that criminals only get left alone from local authorities in anarchic or "wilderness"/deep space areas now.