Would you prefer C&P back how it was?

[Darkfyre99]

You can say it's logical, you can say the info is out there, you can say it was a good faith attempt to solve a problem, you can say what you like. The fact is the new C&P is ridiculously over complicated, fussy and has definitely caused more inconvenience to players playing legally but making the occasional mistake, than it has to the griefers.

Therefore I propose a rollback and looking at it again in a future update. Putting the bounty on the ships is so counter intuitive for one thing.

Solutions have to be simple, guys, new players are really going to struggle with the convolution, it took me some time to really understand what I need to do when something happens now (I do now, but it wasn't exactly clear, and I had to go forum trawling to find the info) and nobody is sure if their bounties, or the game's behaviour are bugs, because sometimes it seems so illogical or far removed from what it 'was', that we question if it can be intended, and of course sometimes it is bugs because we are in a fresh release.

Then there's the problems that several missions make you wanted by necessity. Who would do these now?

I know this is piddling into the wind, but I want to express that whatever 'this' is, it wasn't the right step to deal with griefing or make C&P more effective, fair or fun.

ALL THAT NEEDED DOING was some estra stuff as regards player vs player interactions. Not a change to the whole fundamental system.

1) Both the old C&P and the new C&P are clearly not intended to "deal with the griefers." It is intended to create consequences for criminal actions, making criminal play more interesting and fun. A C&P system intended to "deal with the griefers" would look a lot different. The old system utterly failed at applying any consequences for criminal actions. The new one does a much better job, meaning you have to actually think about how you commit a criminal act, or whether its worth doing at all.

2) The new system is "overly complicated and fussy?" Really? Bounties are applied to ships. If you want them removed, you need to take said ships to an extra-legal organization to "clean" your ships if you want to remove them. Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy. No timers, no flow charts to follow the evolution of said bounties, and no weird rules.

3) I'm perfectly fine with players suffering consequences for their own stupidity. If you fail to pay attention to what's going on around you, to the point where you commit a crime, you truly deserve what you get. Personally, I think Frontier makes it too easy as it is to stick to legal activities. I'd prefer it if players only discover a mission is a criminal one while trying to perform said mission, or by actually paying attention to the mission text. I think it makes games far more interesting, and thus engaging, when the NPCs are capable of lying to you.

 

[simfan1983]

I couldn't pay off bounties today despite having zero notoriety and visitng an Interstellar Factors. I was then interdicted and attacked in my own power system by a wanted NPC enemy, having waited for them to shoot first and after killing them I was awarded a point of notoriety.

When I arrive in some systems, before jumping it says I'm clean in that system, but when I get there the red wanted warning appears, but I can still dock and get through scans. The C&P system just doesn't work as intended in 3.0, especially for those doing power play.

The idea that you have to wait in open for notoriety to decay is also silly. The game has become unplayable for me.

 

[Jukelo]

The idea that you have to wait in open for notoriety to decay is also silly.

That's the second time I see this, where did you get it from?

 

[simfan1983]

Read the outline FD have provided, and be conscious of your actions. Since the release of 3.0 I have run a foul of both FF, and shooting inside the no shooting zones. On none of these occasions have I had any difficulty clearing my fines. Growing pains are expected, but a knee-jerk "get rid of it' is childish.

The current system, with simply fines and bounties, is far less convoluted than the previous C&P system. Adapt and overcome, Commanders, adapt and overcome.

I've read the outline that FD provided and it doesn't actually work as described (or at all). I can't pay off bounties despite zero notoriety, am awarded notoriety for defending myself when a wanted enemy shoots first in my own system and am incorrectly tagged as wanted or clean depending on which way the wind is blowing. The power play game is unplayable at the moment so "so back to how it was" is hardly childish IMO.

That's the second time I see this, where did you get it from?

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Notoriety

It's true - tried waiting in solo and no dice. In open it decays at 1 point every two hours.

Even with zero notoriety you can't pay off bounties any more.

 

[Darkfyre99]

That's the second time I see this, where did you get it from?

It comes from the erroneous perception that the C&P system is designed to deal with griefers, as opposed being designed to make PvE crime for fun and engaging, by adding actual consequences to the crimes you commit against NPCs. The old system was so lenient regarding crimes committed against NPCs (or crimes in general) it might as well not have existed, for all the impact it had on my game. Now, if I want the benefits of an extra-legal mission, I have to stop and think about how to do it, which is a win in my book.

 

[simfan1983]

It comes from the erroneous perception that the C&P system is designed to deal with griefers, as opposed being designed to make PvE crime for fun and engaging, by adding actual consequences to the crimes you commit against NPCs. The old system was so lenient regarding crimes committed against NPCs (or crimes in general) it might as well not have existed, for all the impact it had on my game. Now, if I want the benefits of an extra-legal mission, I have to stop and think about how to do it, which is a win in my book.

What does having to wait in open instead of solo have to do with what you wrote?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

What does having to wait in open instead of solo have to do with what you wrote?

Because it's incorrect to say that you have to wait in Open only for Notoriety to decay. It's simply incorrect.

Notoriety decays when you are logged in and have started a game in any game client connection mode - Open, Group, and Solo.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Another vote for “Like the new C&P system.”

 

[simfan1983]

Because it's incorrect to say that you have to wait in Open only for Notoriety to decay. It's simply incorrect.

Notoriety decays when you are logged in and have started a game in any game client connection mode - Open, Group, and Solo.

If it's not the case that you have to wait in open, then it would have been better for you to say that instead of sneer.

The wikki says "As of Feb 28 2018, Notoriety does not decrease while in a solo, or private session. " I took that as being accurate, but hey ho.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

If it's not the case that you have to wait in open, then it would have been better for you to say that instead of sneer.

The wikki says "As of Feb 28 2018, Notoriety does not decrease while in a solo, or private session. " I took that as being accurate, but hey ho.

I sneered? Where?

If you're going to accuse me of that, I have the right to an explanation of exactly where in my response to you was in any way sneering.

 

[simfan1983]

I sneered? Where?

If you're going to accuse me of that, I have the right to an explanation of exactly where in my response to you was in any way sneering.

It was the tone of your reply IMO. I for one have no issue with making penalties more severe for crimes. I would object however to having to wait in open, but I'll take your word for the fact that the wikki is incorrect. I will test it out later.

I've been trying to find a detailed explanation of the new bounty system. The Reddit thread mentions a new "power bounty" (I couldn't see any reference to this in FD's material) and I think this is where I have actually misunderstood the new system. All of the bounties awarded against myself seem to be power bounties.

I really don't agree with receiving notoriety for defending myself, so if you are a power player and defend yourself as part of power play you will end up with notoriety of 10, which means that you will be unable to clear any non-power bounties. Is that how it is supposed to work?

If I remove my pledge to one power, will all of the power bounties disappear?

 

[Darkfyre99]

What does having to wait in open instead of solo have to do with what you wrote?

Because some players seem to think it that the C&P system is designed to deal with griefers. If the C&P system was designed to deal with griefers (it's not), it logically follows that Notoriety has to decay in Open, because that's where people get griefed, and having Notoriety decay in Solo would allow the griefers to evade the consequences of their actions.

It's a perfectly logical conclusion from a false premise, which is why some people think that you have to be in Open to allow Notoriety to decay.

 

[Jane Turner]

I love the new C&P system. A lot of people with an alternate view seem to think its all about PvP. Its not. Its mostly about dealing with some massive loopholes that existed in the BGS, primarily aouund farming system authority) and in that regard (a few teething problems aside) its performing admirably.

 

[simfan1983]

Because some players seem to think it that the C&P system is designed to deal with griefers. If the C&P system was designed to deal with griefers (it's not), it logically follows that Notoriety has to decay in Open, because that's where people get griefed, and having Notoriety decay in Solo would allow the griefers to evade the consequences of their actions.

It's a perfectly logical conclusion from a false premise, which is why some people think that you have to be in Open to allow Notoriety to decay.

OK, I get that. But it would make power play impossible for non-open players if it was true that you have to wait in open (as the wikki still says). The appropriate response IMO was therefore to say that it wasn't actually true, not to point out that the person is suffering from a false perception about the intention of the C&P changes.

 

[simfan1983]

I love the new C&P system. A lot of people with an alternate view seem to think its all about PvP. Its not. Its mostly about dealing with some massive loopholes that existed in the BGS, primarily aouund farming system authority) and in that regard (a few teething problems aside) its performing admirably.

Do you participate in power play?

 

[Ian Skippy]

I gotta ask how you logic that. What with the new "hot modules" and related swapping, hot ships, interstellar factors, notoriety etc etc.

I mean, good for you for memorizing every bullet point on the patch notes. But the number of "?!?" posts here regarding this new system doesn't seem to fit your narrative about said system being.. simpler.

Huh? So if people have questions about a new thing the old thing must be simpler by default? What kind of logic is that?

 

[RyeENcoke]

I am a new player to the game, just getting used to things. A small mistake in pve solo gave me a bounty. I now have to wait for notoriety to go down in open world. There is a reason I play in solo and I shouldn't have to sit in a station in open just to get rid of notoriety for a mistake while bounty hunting. I understand this was probably meant to deal with griefers but it hurts the regular players who do missions and bounty hunting and are not out blowing players into space dust.

For me right now, the game has lost a lot of appeal. I will see what happens when I can finally get back out into solo and start playing again. But it seems like it is much too easy to accidentally get a bounty and the process of getting rid of the bounty is much too complicated and time consuming. Has taken all the fun out of learning a new game for me and I am seriously contemplating just going back to my old games that don't have this type of ridiculous punishment for non griefers just playing the game.

They need to put back the old system and come up with a new way to deal with griefers that doesn't hurt the other players just trying to enjoy the game.

 

[Funny]

I am a new player to the game, just getting used to things. A small mistake in pve solo gave me a bounty. I now have to wait for notoriety to go down in open world. There is a reason I play in solo and I shouldn't have to sit in a station in open just to get rid of notoriety for a mistake while bounty hunting. I understand this was probably meant to deal with griefers but it hurts the regular players who do missions and bounty hunting and are not out blowing players into space dust.

For me right now, the game has lost a lot of appeal. I will see what happens when I can finally get back out into solo and start playing again. But it seems like it is much too easy to accidentally get a bounty and the process of getting rid of the bounty is much too complicated and time consuming. Has taken all the fun out of learning a new game for me and I am seriously contemplating just going back to my old games that don't have this type of ridiculous punishment for non griefers just playing the game.

They need to put back the old system and come up with a new way to deal with griefers that doesn't hurt the other players just trying to enjoy the game.

Pretty sure you can just sit in solo though? Also you’d have had to kill a ship, so you won’t get any sympathy from me for having to wait
Well, you can just play in solo though so whatever.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I love the new C&P system. A lot of people with an alternate view seem to think its all about PvP. Its not. Its mostly about dealing with some massive loopholes that existed in the BGS, primarily aouund farming system authority) and in that regard (a few teething problems aside) its performing admirably.

One of the bonuses for me is that, as a law abiding pilot, it finally feels like it “means something” in the game universe.

 

[AzraelDirge]

"C&P effects me. It was supposed to be laser focused on griefers. plz nerf."