Modes Reworking the game modes

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Which is the main reason I said it isn't built for PvP.

Too many places to go. Each current player could have a star system each and still not have any neighbours.
So advertising the game to the PvP crowd is actually cruel in my opinion. It's also why the modes discussion has gone on since 2012.

Once again, 90s kid coming in to shut this nonsense down. Are you ready? Grab your ankles...

Every system that has a player base around. It could be Powerplay or BGS. You are concentrated in one area. They people that work and maintain those systems will see numbers move. And it could be through discords, powerplay subreddits or whatever. But usually people work a general area. Everyone is concentrated in one place working those numbers.

Remember that Saw Video ya'll like to discredit? Well that video also proves that wrong.

[video=youtube;9tobMVjSMnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ[/video]

Every video I have made has been with a purpose.

I traveled across the galaxy to Colonia. "space is big". AND I STILL SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ATTACKING OUR BGS. And if im not on at a certain time we have others that are. We got people on Xbox and Ps4 too.

Guess what, heres a rare video of people being killed in our home system in OPEN at colonia, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232364143

Guess where they went because they got dunked on. Private and Solo. Thats right we got people patrolling everything we own. 24-7 If you're in open we will find you and we will kill you.

However if the modes were restricted when it comes to this type of play. LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME THAT EXISTS. They would have a hard time coming back into the system as they would be seen again.

This would bring meaning to PVP, This would bring meaning Blockades, this would bring meaning to simple attack and defend.

Or you guys can continue to talk in your circles and actively allow griefing by not giving PVP its meaning.

You know after all this time, Ive been watching some of you people here. And you all whine and complain about what happens in OPEN when frontier has encouraged things like "gank single players" and so forth. Just to watch you guys fight against Open private and solo, or giving PVP a meaning to in general.

Only to realize the people fighting against it, the people trying to prolong this as long as possible are actually fighting for the people they hate the most.

Griefers.

Stop coming up with every excuse in the book for it not to happen.

Because I've walked in here and have proven you NaySayers wrong every time. With video, with screenshots, with math, with evidence.

 

[Mohrgan]

Once again, 90s kid coming in to shut this nonsense down. Are you ready? Grab your ankles...

Every system that has a player base around. It could be Powerplay or BGS. You are concentrated in one area. They people that work and maintain those systems will see numbers move. And it could be through discords, powerplay subreddits or whatever. But usually people work a general area. Everyone is concentrated in one place working those numbers.

Remember that Saw Video ya'll like to discredit? Well that video also proves that wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ

Every video I have made has been with a purpose.

I traveled across the galaxy to Colonia. "space is big". AND I STILL SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ATTACKING OUR BGS. And if im not on at a certain time we have others that are. We got people on Xbox and Ps4 too.

Guess what, heres a rare video of people being killed in our home system in OPEN at colonia, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232364143

Guess where they went because they got dunked on. Private and Solo. Thats right we got people patrolling everything we own. 24-7 If you're in open we will find you and we will kill you.

However if the modes were restricted when it comes to this type of play. LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME THAT EXISTS. They would have a hard time coming back into the system as they would be seen again.

This would bring meaning to PVP, This would bring meaning Blockades, this would bring meaning to simple attack and defend.

Or you guys can continue to talk in your circles and actively allow griefing by not giving PVP its meaning.

You know after all this time, Ive been watching some of you people here. And you all whine and complain about what happens in OPEN when frontier has encouraged things like "gank single players" and so forth. Just to watch you guys fight against Open private and solo, or giving PVP a meaning to in general.

Only to realize the people fighting against it, the people trying to prolong this as long as possible are actually fighting for the people they hate the most.

Griefers.

Stop coming up with every excuse in the book for it not to happen.

Because I've walked in here and have proven you NaySayers wrong every time. With video, with screenshots, with math, with evidence.

You're joking right? This has all been a comedy routine? That video is hardly coherent, let alone prove anything. Dramatic music just isn't convincing. Especially when you (I) know how the game works. The plain truth is, to win a BGS war, you do BGS stuffs.

P.S. That Null guy wants his voice back.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You're joking right? This has all been a comedy routine? That video is hardly coherent, let alone prove anything. Dramatic music just isn't convincing. Especially when you (I) know how the game works. The plain truth is, to win a BGS war, you do BGS stuffs.

P.S. That Null guy wants his voice back.

You're right you do BGS stuff. But you also have should have the chance of stopping someone doing the BGS stuff against you. And we simply dont have that option with PVP.

You STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT.

I dont know if you guys do this intentionally or what?

But there is no definition for PVP. And this would give definition for PVP.

You want to say its all a comedy routine, I do stuff to be entertaining. But at the same time. I prove points. EVERYTIME.

Not my fault ya'll are too blind to listen.

 

[Mohrgan]

You're right you do BGS stuff. But you also have should have the chance of stopping someone doing the BGS stuff against you. And we simply dont have that option with PVP.

You STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT.

I dont know if you guys do this intentionally or what?

But there is no definition for PVP. And this would give definition for PVP.

You want to say its all a comedy routine, I do stuff to be entertaining. But at the same time. I prove points. EVERYTIME.

Not my fault ya'll are too blind to listen.

You can stop them, by doing the opposing tasks. That's how the BGS functions, so everybody has the same impact. By the way, you do have a chance to stop them through PvP. But, only those that want to be involved with PvP. That's the deal. We are given the opportunity to control our individual gaming experience. Right from the start, right at the very basis of the game. The Modes.

There is a definition for PvP. This very Forum has a section for PvP, and another for the BGS. That makes it pretty clear, that FD, who made those definitions, doesn't consider playing the BGS to be PvP.

You only prove that you want PvP to be the focal point of the game. You're too late, that's not how it has been made.

Be convincing, and I won't seem blind to you.

 

[Xevyr]

You're right you do BGS stuff. But you also have should have the chance of stopping someone doing the BGS stuff against you. And we simply dont have that option with PVP.

You STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT.

I dont know if you guys do this intentionally or what?

But there is no definition for PVP. And this would give definition for PVP.

You want to say its all a comedy routine, I do stuff to be entertaining. But at the same time. I prove points. EVERYTIME.

Not my fault ya'll are too blind to listen.

Uhmmm.. err... anybody see any points around here? :O (besides the ones I just typed?)

No, but seriously.. how's a video about you dropping into a res site, (with the exact same ships and loadout that every ganker uses) and murdering some innocent anacondas who were minding their own PvE business is supposed to prove any points?
Get with the program already... it's a PvE mechanic.. no wonder you fail at it and resort to pure rage and violence, THOSE ships you use!.. they haven't got enough cargo capacity to support the PvE mechanic you're trying so desperately to win by blowing stuff up )))

Just analyze the abbreviation already and try to understand it.. PvP = Player versus Player.. If someone is delivering stuff to NPCs at an NPC-ran station.. that's just 1 "P".. there's no second "P" to have a "v" with... so it simply cannot be called PvP.
No wonder they go into Solo/PG.. I mean you saw their ships.. they have lasers and cargo space.. and all that good stuff that you need for PvE And the fact that you want to hunt them down and occasionally do is the only PvP that's happening in all of this.. it's a completely separate thing that YOU choose to initiate.

Now, before you get all worked up over my silly comment, realize that I have absolutely no agenda in this.. heck.. I'm a fairly new player with a mere 400 hours behind my back.. and I'm currently busy hunting down aliens so I couldn't care less about PP or whatnot.. This started as a nice and chill discussion in the suggestions forums, but ended up being moved here (I wonder why... hmmm ), that's when it escalated..

But as a fairly new player and researching these mechanics myself - because apparently you literally need to go through an entire university-worth of learning to get this game.... (I mean really for cryin' out loud.. did you know that you have to use DAW software to view little pictures that aliens drew us and hidden in sound-waveform that is played within the game and you have to record... and learn military decryption and Morse code and binary to octal conversions.. just to get their silly messages.. like seriously.. this game should come bundled with at least 4 other software you need so you can play it lol) - so anyway.. even as a fairly new player it is clear to me as night and day that this mechanic wasn't ever intended to be played in the way you're asking the devs to let you play it..
You're simply knocking on a door that will never ever open.. at least not from the side you're trying to open it.. There's this thing called 'collateral damage' and in this case it's just too huge for the devs to ever even consider it. You really need to think about it more and propose a solution that is acceptable by everyone instead of well... how should I say it.. doing your 'number one' against the wind

Anyway, ignore my silliness, I'm usually more serious, but it's too late / early

Cheers! And good luck with your fight!

 

[Mouse]

Once again, 90s kid coming in to shut this nonsense down. Are you ready? Grab your ankles...

Every system that has a player base around. It could be Powerplay or BGS. You are concentrated in one area. They people that work and maintain those systems will see numbers move. And it could be through discords, powerplay subreddits or whatever. But usually people work a general area. Everyone is concentrated in one place working those numbers.

Remember that Saw Video ya'll like to discredit? Well that video also proves that wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ

Every video I have made has been with a purpose.

I traveled across the galaxy to Colonia. "space is big". AND I STILL SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ATTACKING OUR BGS. And if im not on at a certain time we have others that are. We got people on Xbox and Ps4 too.

Guess what, heres a rare video of people being killed in our home system in OPEN at colonia, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232364143

Guess where they went because they got dunked on. Private and Solo. Thats right we got people patrolling everything we own. 24-7 If you're in open we will find you and we will kill you.

However if the modes were restricted when it comes to this type of play. LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME THAT EXISTS. They would have a hard time coming back into the system as they would be seen again.

This would bring meaning to PVP, This would bring meaning Blockades, this would bring meaning to simple attack and defend.

Or you guys can continue to talk in your circles and actively allow griefing by not giving PVP its meaning.

You know after all this time, Ive been watching some of you people here. And you all whine and complain about what happens in OPEN when frontier has encouraged things like "gank single players" and so forth. Just to watch you guys fight against Open private and solo, or giving PVP a meaning to in general.

Only to realize the people fighting against it, the people trying to prolong this as long as possible are actually fighting for the people they hate the most.

Griefers.

Stop coming up with every excuse in the book for it not to happen.

Because I've walked in here and have proven you NaySayers wrong every time. With video, with screenshots, with math, with evidence.

Only thing you've managed to "shut down" is yourself. What you post is again equivalent to the crap posted by flat earthers..

"Because I've walked in here and have proven you NaySayers wrong every time. With video, with screenshots, with math, with evidence."

Yea... and we've still been waiting for you to do so... and you've yet to. I would love to see some actual evidence.

 

[fsdraconis]

Actually, you are missing most of the points. You are choosing not to listen or even discuss by looking at this from the point of view as someone who has no interest like your own. Your ideas, completely destroy key components of the game that players have targeted as an active interest to play the game. Look at Mobius, a pure pve group for the purposes of not participating in your obsessed pvp. Most of which, are not going about trying to have any effect against the BGS. It has alone, over 40,000 players.

Second - Right now, anyone could simply, legally, run missions to chooce an influence effect against a given party by supporting an opposing organization. Meaning, you would have to attack every single player ever that ever came through just to attempt to slow it down. Meaning, you would be wasting your time.

Third - If they (Fdev) actually listened to your poorly lined out idea and made the whole game Open play. Then they are legally required by law to refund all money spent on the game due to deviating drastically from how it was marketed for anyone that wants it. Those game modes go back to the Kick starter. They were there, when the game went live. They are still there now, years later. You are beating the ground where a horse died in a galaxy far far away. You are literally demanding 2 thirds of the game modes be destroyed just so you can pvp more.

Fourth - Look at all the bugs, and problems they have right now just trying to change the crime and punishment system.

Fifth - Even if we were all in open like your dream for as disillusioned as it is. You are limited by the amount per instance of players can be with in a given system. Last we knew, was some where around 32. Only communicating with each other through peer to peer networking. So again, you still won't be able to do anything to them all.

Lastly, you state that you want to 'define' pvp. It does not do anything at all to 'define' pvp. It goes a long ways to destroy other game modes to support your desire to target and attack more players. You are trying to raise your ambitions hidden through lofty goals. But ultimately, it is just to disguise your blood lust. You are just a predator.

You're right you do BGS stuff. But you also have should have the chance of stopping someone doing the BGS stuff against you. And we simply dont have that option with PVP.

You STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT.

I dont know if you guys do this intentionally or what?

But there is no definition for PVP. And this would give definition for PVP.


You want to say its all a comedy routine, I do stuff to be entertaining. But at the same time. I prove points. EVERYTIME.

Not my fault ya'll are too blind to listen.

 

[Mouse]

Third - If they (Fdev) actually listened to your poorly lined out idea and made the whole game Open play. Then they are legally required by law to refund all money spent on the game due to deviating drastically from how it was marketed for anyone that wants it. Those game modes go back to the Kick starter. They were there, when the game went live. They are still there now, years later. You are beating the ground where a horse died in a galaxy far far away.

Speaking of a Galaxy far far away..
Reminds me of SOE's screw up and the refunds that a lot of us got. It signaled the death knell of SWG...thankfully the EMU is bringing it back.

 

[Sylveria]

You're right you do BGS stuff. But you also have should have the chance of stopping someone doing the BGS stuff against you. And we simply dont have that option with PVP.

You STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT.

I dont know if you guys do this intentionally or what?

But there is no definition for PVP. And this would give definition for PVP.

You want to say its all a comedy routine, I do stuff to be entertaining. But at the same time. I prove points. EVERYTIME.

Not my fault ya'll are too blind to listen.

Not quite working out the way you'd hoped it would, is it?

Perhaps its time to change your narrative... because it's quite apparent you're not able to persuade anyone with the propaganda anymore, T90K.

You keep asserting, as does a lot of others who drop into Hotel California, that there's some sort of "proof", yet fail to provide any.

There's no "imbalance" with the BGS other than your failure to combat it using the tools you've been provided, just like everyone else has them.

The "option with PvP" is the same option everyone else has. Indirect PvP. Wasn't it you who asserted "direct or indirect, it's all PvP", after all?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Indeed, those who don't agree that the game should be changed to suit the subset of the player-base that constitutes players who prefer direct PvP "STILL FAIL TO MISS THE POINT".

They get it - they just don't agree with the proposals.

Those who demand that all players who affect "their" game be available to shoot at were rather obviously, given the game design in relation to the three game modes and single shared galaxy state, going to be disappointed with this game.

 

[Jockey79]

Once again, 90s kid coming in to shut this nonsense down. Are you ready? Grab your ankles........

And you completely missed the point and went off on a tangent, well done.

Oh and the only thing you've "proven" is that PP PvP was designed to be consensual - that's at the heart of PP. Or at least that's what Sandro said.

[video=youtube;nvMYy0ry9mA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvMYy0ry9mA[/video]


Optional PvP for the BGS
Optional PvP for PP
Optional PvP for missions

This has never been and will never be a PvP focused game, you lied to yourself when you bought it and you are still lying to yourself now.
The truth will set you free.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Once again, 90s kid coming in to shut this nonsense down. Are you ready? Grab your ankles...

Every system that has a player base around. It could be Powerplay or BGS. You are concentrated in one area. They people that work and maintain those systems will see numbers move. And it could be through discords, powerplay subreddits or whatever. But usually people work a general area. Everyone is concentrated in one place working those numbers.

Remember that Saw Video ya'll like to discredit? Well that video also proves that wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ

Every video I have made has been with a purpose.

I traveled across the galaxy to Colonia. "space is big". AND I STILL SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ATTACKING OUR BGS. And if im not on at a certain time we have others that are. We got people on Xbox and Ps4 too.

Guess what, heres a rare video of people being killed in our home system in OPEN at colonia, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232364143

Guess where they went because they got dunked on. Private and Solo. Thats right we got people patrolling everything we own. 24-7 If you're in open we will find you and we will kill you.

However if the modes were restricted when it comes to this type of play. LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME THAT EXISTS. They would have a hard time coming back into the system as they would be seen again.

This would bring meaning to PVP, This would bring meaning Blockades, this would bring meaning to simple attack and defend.

Or you guys can continue to talk in your circles and actively allow griefing by not giving PVP its meaning.

You know after all this time, Ive been watching some of you people here. And you all whine and complain about what happens in OPEN when frontier has encouraged things like "gank single players" and so forth. Just to watch you guys fight against Open private and solo, or giving PVP a meaning to in general.

Only to realize the people fighting against it, the people trying to prolong this as long as possible are actually fighting for the people they hate the most.

Griefers.

Stop coming up with every excuse in the book for it not to happen.

Because I've walked in here and have proven you NaySayers wrong every time. With video, with screenshots, with math, with evidence.

I just have to link to this in reply, because you just insist on reveling in your ignornance, don't you?

Let's set aside all the time zone issues, location issues, and instancing issues that make system blockades an exercise in futility. Let's pretend by some miracle, you and I are going head to head with me trying to attack your faction via the BGS, and you defending.

Scenario One: I'm a better blockade runner, than you are a blockader. I manage to evade you most of the time, and complete my missions. I've managed to complete most of my tasks, and you've failed to accomplish anything. I win.

Scenario Two: We're roughly even when it comes to skill level. I manage to evade you half the time, and you manage to stop me half the time. I've accomplished half my tasks, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. I still win.

Scenario Three: You're a better blockader than I am a runner. You manage to stop me most of the time. I've accomplished almost nothing, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. Once again, I've won. I've won because every single time you've murdered my ship, you've cost your faction influence, and moved it closer to lockdown.

 

[kinglemo2000]

I just have to link to this in reply, because you just insist on reveling in your ignornance, don't you?

Let's set aside all the time zone issues, location issues, and instancing issues that make system blockades an exercise in futility. Let's pretend by some miracle, you and I are going head to head with me trying to attack your faction via the BGS, and you defending.

Scenario One: I'm a better blockade runner, than you are a blockader. I manage to evade you most of the time, and complete my missions. I've managed to complete most of my tasks, and you've failed to accomplish anything. I win.

Scenario Two: We're roughly even when it comes to skill level. I manage to evade you half the time, and you manage to stop me half the time. I've accomplished half my tasks, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. I still win.

Scenario Three: You're a better blockader than I am a runner. You manage to stop me most of the time. I've accomplished almost nothing, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. Once again, I've won. I've won because every single time you've murdered my ship, you've cost your faction influence, and moved it closer to lockdown.

Repped you for that one, this has been pointed out in the past that blockading won't work most of the time these post get ignored

 

[Dietger]

I just have to link to this in reply, because you just insist on reveling in your ignornance, don't you?

Let's set aside all the time zone issues, location issues, and instancing issues that make system blockades an exercise in futility. Let's pretend by some miracle, you and I are going head to head with me trying to attack your faction via the BGS, and you defending.

Scenario One: I'm a better blockade runner, than you are a blockader. I manage to evade you most of the time, and complete my missions. I've managed to complete most of my tasks, and you've failed to accomplish anything. I win.

Scenario Two: We're roughly even when it comes to skill level. I manage to evade you half the time, and you manage to stop me half the time. I've accomplished half my tasks, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. I still win.

Scenario Three: You're a better blockader than I am a runner. You manage to stop me most of the time. I've accomplished almost nothing, and you've still failed to accomplish anything. Once again, I've won. I've won because every single time you've murdered my ship, you've cost your faction influence, and moved it closer to lockdown.

Well, which of that 50/50 chance is your win now?
While modes remain what they are, cause and effect is not weighted down by stupid numbers.

PvE vs PvP never is about numbers. Certainly not about majorities, but impact. I am sure we agree about that.


PvP is not about gaming the game.
Merits against players.
I think Frontier made a bad choice. What they need is PvP, unfortunately, to keep Elite alive.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Hello FDev Team and community!

--------------------------------------------------
, which content wise wasn't delivering an inch of what Elite brings on the table.

IMHO the currently reworked C&P systems delivers a perfect foundation to allow for such interactions as unjustified attacks are followed by meaningful punishments and therefore disincentivize griefing.
But the problem still being a lack of meaningful encounters, as currently Powerplay allows for such encounters only.
Even those encounters are quite meaningless and not impactful viewed from a squadron perspective, with currently the only reason for such an attack being to gain merits with the power...

I would love to see Elite allow for intergalactic wars between squadrons.
Conflict certainly can be a very engaging aspect in a game like Elite.

NO. Next Please.

 

[Jockey79]

..... What they need is PvP, unfortunately, to keep Elite alive.

Heard this so many times.
Funny how many games are supposed to die without forced open world PvP, yet all seem to be doing well years later.

 

[Dietger]

Heard this so many times.
Funny how many games are supposed to die without forced open world PvP, yet all seem to be doing well years later.

For Whom?

 

[Jockey79]

For Whom?

Star Trek Online was slated to "doom" by PvP'ers and wouldn't last 2 years if it didn't release with open world PvP - 8 years ago, still going.
Seen some great whinging about Warframe and if they don't push PvP then it will die within months - 5 years ago.
If World of Warcraft don't shut down the PvE servers and focus on PvP then it won't last - 14 years ago.

It's amazing just how important some folks think they are.
And I'm yet to see a mixed game fail due to lack of PvP.

Elite is no different. It will be here long after the PvP naysayers move off to complain about another game.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Well, which of that 50/50 chance is your win now?
While modes remain what they are, cause and effect is not weighted down by stupid numbers.

PvE vs PvP never is about numbers. Certainly not about majorities, but impact. I am sure we agree about that.

My post wasn’t about PvE vs PvP. My post was purely about somebody who fancies himself a 1337 PvPer, verses somebody who actually knows what they’re doing, having manipulated the BGS, primarily in Open, since it was first added to the game. Players like 90sKid simply don’t realize how much damage they do to their faction, using their “defensive” strategy.

PvP is not about gaming the game.
Merits against players.
I think Frontier made a bad choice. What they need is PvP, unfortunately, to keep Elite alive.

Fortunately, Frontier has learned from the ruins of games that tried for Open World PvP, And has designed this brilliant Tri-Mode system, so that players can tailor their experiences in the game to match their tastes. Actual PvPers win, because those choose to play in Open are more likely to be a challenge. PvEers win, because they don’t have to have their gaming session ruined by unwanted “emergent content.” Players who enjoy both win, because we don’t have to choose between all PvP and all PvE.

The only ones who lose are the PKers, who like to pretend they are 1337 PvPers, but lack the skills to be a threat to anyone but a PvE player. Deprived of their usual prey, they instead come on to forums, and complain about how those nasty PvEers are ruining the game.

 

[Jockey79]

...Fortunately, Frontier has learned from the ruins of games that tried for Open World PvP, And has designed this brilliant Tri-Mode system, ......

Well, FDev didn't design the mode system.
Selective multiplayer has been about for some time.

Warframe has Solo, Friends, Public.
STO missions have Solo, Friends, Public.
Minecraft has Single Player, Invite Only and Public.

And didn't Diablo have the choice of using the same character for Single Player and Multiplayer?

Which is why I don't get how some folks are not used to this yet, the mode system has been around for a long time.