Why is new C&P a thing?

[Red Fox Four]

Hm...

Only issue I've seen with the new C&P is the fact that even stations in Anarchy systems will stop offering services to players who are wanted. That's a deep flaw that needs to be sorted. ATR and denial of services pushes criminals out of legal systems and into Anarchy which means the stations in Anarchy needs to offer services otherwise it makes pirate gameplay completely stagnant.

When it comes to wanted status for players, well... you do illegal stuff you become wanted. Simple as that. Can clear that status at the Interstellar Factors (IF) with notoriety at 0.

Notoriety decreases 1 point per 2 hours, and since max points you can have is 10 it takes maximum of 20 hours to clear it, and then you can go to the IF and clear your wanted status.

Pretty straightforward and simple.

You just can't instant clear it like before which means if you go do illegal stuff you gotta deal with that for X amount of hours afterwards (minimum 2 with 1 notoriety point, maximum 20 with 10 notoriety points).

I guess the short version is... want to do illegal stuff then make sure you have a fallback plan (e.g. anarchy system) where you can hang out until you are in the clear again.

 

[Conch]

Frontier is searching for the way to kill the playerbase as fast as possible.. i think they are on the right track. So far ive allready got 5 mates who uninstalled the game thanks to 3.0. Great success..

 

[Dakron Nova]

I like the new C&P.

 

[Adhock]

Only issue I've seen with the new C&P is the fact that even stations in Anarchy systems will stop offering services to players who are wanted.

And if that's the case, it's a serious oversight that needs an exception added to it. And likely that issue might have to do with the whole 'jurisdiction' deal. That part is what makes the new C&P more complex. If the new rules had been applied to the old Jurisdiction rules it might have gone over better. Then Frontier could have worked out what new jurisdiction rules they wanted.

 

[gribley]

i really do love these threads.
carebears get upset at PvP'ers for raining on their parade and demand better C&P.
carebears get screwed over by C&P and complain bitterly.

meanwhile the griefers worked out its limits, accepted the problems regardless of how bad they are and plan around it. simple things like having a spare ship in a nearby anarchy system and ample reloads make the new system a non-issue for anyone who planned ahead.

 

[ilo]

Frontier is searching for the way to kill the playerbase as fast as possible.. i think they are on the right track. So far ive allready got 5 mates who uninstalled the game thanks to 3.0. Great success..

That is ok, see? the new C&P is keeping the galaxy clean

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

i really do love these threads.
carebears get upset at PvP'ers for raining on their parade and demand better C&P.
carebears get screwed over by C&P and complain bitterly.

meanwhile the griefers worked out its limits, accepted the problems regardless of how bad they are and plan around it. simple things like having a spare ship in a nearby anarchy system and ample reloads make the new system a non-issue for anyone who planned ahead.

Can we do away without generalizations?

I am pro PvE and I love new C&P and 3.0.3 has solved majority of small issues with it (sans outfitting for hot ships which devs seem to be determined to solve soon).

And I also happy to see PvP accepting it and working within system.

 

[Red Fox Four]

i really do love these threads.
carebears get upset at PvP'ers for raining on their parade and demand better C&P.
carebears get screwed over by C&P and complain bitterly.

meanwhile the griefers worked out its limits, accepted the problems regardless of how bad they are and plan around it. simple things like having a spare ship in a nearby anarchy system and ample reloads make the new system a non-issue for anyone who planned ahead.

It's not as black and white as that.

Plenty of so-called pirates who have raised their complaints as well.

Thinking this is an us vs them issue and being negative by employing derogatory terms like carebear doesn't help anyone.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Frontier is searching for the way to kill the playerbase as fast as possible.. i think they are on the right track. So far ive allready got 5 mates who uninstalled the game thanks to 3.0. Great success..

Any good reason given why?

 

[gribley]

It's not as black and white as that.

Plenty of so-called pirates who have raised their complaints as well.

Thinking this is an us vs them issue and being negative by employing derogatory terms like carebear doesn't help anyone.

i went on a piricy spree at the last CG and killed plenty of haulers who didn't comply with demands.
anarchy was 1 hop over to allow me to rearm, the station accepted the cargo and all was well.

sure its annoying, but i personally take heart in the fact that the PvE player who accidentally kills a ship bounty hunting and finds himself locked out of everything for 2 hours is hurting a heck of a lot more than me.

and as for its not an US VS them situation, i agree to an extent. but as i see it the very people who screamed for a C&P change are the ones most upset by it, and that's surely worth a chuckle.
PvP'ers have been yelling for a combat logging fix since the game launched and gotten spat on and lied to at every turn by F-dev while the forum dwellers defend the practice.

its pretty hard not to take pleasure in the irony that the only group that seems to get decent responses to their complaints are the most burned by the very thing they cried out for.

 

[KillaALF]

I'm a solo player (with occasional forays into PG) and I like the new C&P system - for the first time criminal behaviour has consequences that cannot be shrugged off nonchalantly. If you're set on illegal actions, better be prepared and have a plan. It's certainly not perfect yet, but imo at least it has been a step in the right direction.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

And if that's the case, it's a serious oversight that needs an exception added to it. And likely that issue might have to do with the whole 'jurisdiction' deal. That part is what makes the new C&P more complex. If the new rules had been applied to the old Jurisdiction rules it might have gone over better. Then Frontier could have worked out what new jurisdiction rules they wanted.

FDev have already stated that they're going to change that:

Greetings Commanders,

We want to address the concerns raised over the recent changes to the outfitting of ‘hot’ ships. The intent was to ensure criminals pay appropriately for their crimes, and simplify the existing systems as it was generating a lot of confusion.

However, after receiving your feedback this morning, we believe that there is a possible solution that could satisfy those who felt it was too punitive whilst remaining sensitive to the Elite Dangerous lore.

We propose that outfitting ‘hot’ ships will work in the following way:

• Outfitting will be available at Anarchy Systems and Starports to those with Wanted status on their ships.
• Outfitting will not be available in non-Anarchy Systems and Starports for those with 'hot' ships (ships that have fines or bounties issued against them).
• Basic refuelling will be available at all Starports that offer the service regardless of a ship’s legal status.

see thread here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/416324-Outfitting-Hot-Ships

 

[Red Fox Four]

its pretty hard not to take pleasure in the irony that the only group that seems to get decent responses to their complaints are the most burned by the very thing they cried out for.

That's not so much a carebear thing as it is lazy player thing. People have a bad tendency to always want to do their most favorite thing, which quite often means whatever is least inconvenient for them. E.g. cutting off another car in traffic because you don't want to drive around an extra block to get to where you need to go, even if only takes you 60 seconds longer to do so.

Or in game terms... switch to another ship if the one they used when they accidentally blew someone up and become wanted. It's really as simple as 'go bounty hunt somewhere else where you are not wanted', 'change to another ship and do mining, trading, cargo missions or whatever until you can clear the wanted status'. But no... because doing so is an inconvenience... it's not their MOST favorite thing that they want to do RIGHT this instance.

My Cobra got wanted when I scanned a surface installation. So I went to forum and I asked... how the heck do I clear my bounty with this new system? Friendly people (thanks Marra and others) told me how to use the Interstellar Forge and how the notoriety works. Great! So I switched to another ship and did missions meanwhile. It's really that simple.

But in this sad world of instant-gratification that we currently find ourselves trawling through people find it easier to jog on to the forums and complain rather than acknowledge that they screwed up and now have to adjust their gameplay due to them screwing it up. The C&P system is a door that swings both ways, but some lazy players want it to only swing one way and allow them to do whatever is least inconvenient for them regardless of the bigger picture.

Knowing full well I am generalizing I will just say that I blame lazy parenting in the mid/late 90's -_-

 

[Gwydion [RoA]]

Any good reason given why?

Just imagine you prefer Pirate gameplay, BGS, Powerplay or PvP. Yor notoriety is raising .... and after a funny evening Comes up to "10". What's the result? Your are forced not to follow your gameplay style but to go mining, trading, whatsoever ... for 20 (!) hours just to become clean again and be able to use outfitting and stuff?

Sounds like a really funny gameplay experience.

 

[Conch]

Any good reason given why?

Mostly the tedium the new c&p. They just want to fly a spaceship, shoot some stuff and have some fun doing it.

This c&p is taken to serious.. like they try to counter irl tax evasion or something. It needs to be fun even when you are wanted.
People were promised to "blaze their own trail", but this gives people less and less options to do so.

My conclusion is its zero fun and only makes the game more tedious. Something that the game didnt need...

 

[ilo]

Everytime I got notoriety (for whatever reason) I jumped into the SRV to gather materials. Now I'm more cautious since SRV driving is not much what I'd like to do, but hey, have more than 70 polonium now

 

[ilo]

Just imagine you prefer Pirate gameplay, BGS, Powerplay or PvP. Yor notoriety is raising .... and after a funny evening Comes up to "10". What's the result? Your are forced not to follow your gameplay style but to go mining, trading, whatsoever ... for 20 (!) hours just to become clean again and be able to use outfitting and stuff?

Sounds like a really funny gameplay experience.

But at the same time, if your notoriety goes to 10 because you killed 10 ships doing what you like, you could as well keep going and kill 200 and your notoriety will still be 10, so not too bad..

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Mostly the tedium the new c&p. They just want to fly a spaceship, shoot some stuff and have some fun doing it.

This c&p is taken to serious.. like they try to counter irl tax evasion or something. It needs to be fun even when you are wanted.
People were promised to "blaze their own trail", but this gives people less and less options to do so.

My conclusion is its zero fun and only makes the game more tedious. Something that the game didnt need...

I would argue that being wanted before 3.0 was boring, simply because it was such a trivial inconvenience. Now crime has actually consequence and meaning, and for me that makes it interesting. Now you can actually play as a criminal. Sure, the new system isn't perfect, but it's large a step in the right direction.

 

[Gwydion [RoA]]

But at the same time, if your notoriety goes to 10 because you killed 10 ships doing what you like, you could as well keep going and kill 200 and your notoriety will still be 10, so not too bad..

True, and that's the reason why this so called Crime & Punisment System does not affect PvP but only PvE. Ok, it does affect PvP but only because Players quit playing.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Mostly the tedium the new c&p. They just want to fly a spaceship, shoot some stuff and have some fun doing it.

This c&p is taken to serious.. like they try to counter irl tax evasion or something. It needs to be fun even when you are wanted.
People were promised to "blaze their own trail", but this gives people less and less options to do so.

My conclusion is its zero fun and only makes the game more tedious. Something that the game didnt need...

Sorry, but it is quite obvious people see 'fun' very differently. This is certainly 'easy to get into/hard to master' game and if you are about to do crime or something stupid, you should be warned that there will be consequences.

Also if their major issue were accidentally firing on someone they are more than welcome to try 3.0.3 because that's been addressed.