Sounds like good things we all could enjoy being able to do. Not sure that it would put some players in advantage over some in disadvantage. Seems like it's an advantage for everyone equally.
Why can we not select one of our ships to start with at beginning of play?
:-(
Ok, like I said my commander would not magically do anything, including anything with unicorns.
What he would do is book passage on a passenger liner from where he is docked to where another one of his ships are docked.
The time it takes could be the same as ship transfers - I really don't care since I work a full time job and meet up with friends on a regular basis a couple of evenings a week, so I'm almost always offline for more than 8 hours.
While I would prefer to book my commanders trip retroactively, so say if the wife goes to bed early on a night I don't usually play, I can boot up the game and find our where my friends are and then choose to spawn in my closest ship... to which my commander could have taken a liner to while I was offline. This is much preferred than wasting the first 15 minutes of gameplay traveling to them. (This is why most all open world games have fast travel, and why Multicrew has it)
But even if I could log in before breakfast and book my commander a paid trip back to the bubble for that evenings game session, it would be better than what we have today.
How many times has some explorer said they've gotten bored with exploring and self destructed so they could respawn back home.
Yeah, it costs a little cash but not really very much if you've been playing for awhile and never fly without rebuy.
So yeah, instant travel (something I'm not asking for) is ALREADY in the game.
Let's see - no, no, no, wrong, wrong, nope.
Why? Because fast travel already exists in the game including in self inflicted death, and in multicrew.
Just btw, nobody is asking for "instant win" so you missed something?
I do know people who only play solo have no idea how frustrating it is to have to spend the first 10-15% of a game session mindlessly mashing buttons, but those of us who do like to play in wings know it all too well.
Yes - if I could have two commanders/users in game that could share stuff (like most open world games made this decade) then I could leave my worker at one station and my multiplayer dude at another and choose which to use.
But we can't.
Totally hear that
Instant transfer by self destructing and multicrew can already be exploited.
Don't honestly see how me paying to ship my commander somewhere to avoid spending 10-15% of my game session mashing the same button over and over again wouldn't be saving time and allowing more gameplay.
I'd be fine if there was a delay and cost like with ship transfers, even if I had to make the choice and pay before logging out.
Better for my commander to sleep on a passenger liner while I'm asleep, than me having to pretend humans never ever would pay someone else to drive them somewhere.
There it is! We have a loser!
Have you never taking a plane trip? You can literally take a nap and be half way around the world.
But that might be too much realism for Elite, right?
Agreed. And who wouldn't mind spending some credits to take a liner versus flying themselves.
Having driven to Florida from Mass a few times, I now only fly because driving for 24 hours isn't worth the money I save.
Agreed
Please - I'll take it!
Yeah, even if I can't do it retroactively please please let me ship my commander somewhere I already have a ship so I don't have to keep driving like I'm a taxi cab driver - I'll pay to be driven!
Dang, I even leave my TV and PC/XBOX/PS4 on if you want!
Part 1) Instant transportation is in the game already - don't like where you flew? Just self destruct and pay a fraction of your ship cost. Or join someone else in MC.
Part 2) When I'm docked and logging out - OK I'll buy that ticket back to one of my other ships - sell it to me please!
SIGN ME UP!
Well written
Yes - please give me that option
Agreed
Good point
Well, I think I've said my piece on this one - fly safe commanders o7
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[video=youtube;xAnVNXaa5oA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAnVNXaa5oA&t=7s[/video]
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Sorry, I think I'm missing the point. What are you trying to prove?
For the record, I'll all for realism and simulation approach for Elite. I'm against dumbing down the game and making it more arcade.
I'm against Insta travel too.
I'm trying the assess the opposition to the idea and boil them down.
If the only real argument against is immersion then that's not enough reason not to make the game far more accessible.
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rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Gotcha. I am not opposed to the idea, I am opposed to the instant nature of it. And immersion may not be enough an argument for you - but very much so for others (like me). That's subjective
Gotcha. I am not opposed to the idea, I am opposed to the instant nature of it. And immersion may not be enough an argument for you - but very much so for others (like me). That's subjective
The instant nature of it is kind of the point although I wouldn't entirely oppose a cooldown period before accessing a different ship.
As far as immersion, it's already been blown in similar ways for me.
- Multi-crew anywhere instantly.
- NPC Crew magically following your non-crew capable ship.
- etc.
At the end of the day you're right, these things are subjective, and it's unlikely to come to pass anyway.
But I do honestly think it would help FD cover up that fundamental flaw that the game primarily rewarding engagement with repetitive game loops for significant periods, a.k.a. grind, and open up many more varied gameplay options for players who may not otherwise want to fully commit to them.
Given my previous stances on other immersive and game feel issues like ship transfer and FSD ranges, I've actually surprised myself in how strongly I feel that this would benefit the game.
It's rather simple really:
It defeats the core philosophy of the game: creating a "real", vast galaxy. If you were to make CMDR travel instantaneous - then you lose that sense of scale. This to you might be simply "immersion", but it's actually one of the core principals (=foundation) this game builds upon.
What about the escape pods then? That part is indeed, as Para Handy stated, purely a gameplay mechanic. It's a compromise between turning ED into a survival sim (restart in a sidewinder) and giving you a respawn point similar to a last save such as with most other games. Both options allowing you to keep all your achievements though, with a third hardcore option: clear CMDR save.
As for "telepresence"... Let's just say it attempts to balance the addition of multiplayer interactivity with the above mentioned philosophy. It's really just a simple and more or less lore-friendly solution to accommodate everything that can go (and goes) wrong with multiplayer sessions and instancing. Imagine you had to dock two ships at the same port to board another player's ship, they jump 1000 Ly out, then your host's connection drops. Does the game send you back to the port your own ship is docked at, or do you float around hoping your host comes back online? You'd have to get sent back to the port of course. When your host comes back online you two are 1000 Ly apart and have to meet up at an identical port again. Now wouldn't that be a pain!
I personally wouldn't be against the implementation of instant CMDR transfers if it meant more folks playing the game. But...
a) I play solo.
b) What focus would such new players expect for future content development...
A timed transfer is a nice balance between having the option to traverse large distances, yet still maintaining that sense of scale and requiring you to think about where you want to go.
Lestat
Banned
Why not just buy another Elite Dangerous. It cheap. Even the Delux edition. A question for people. Would you rather have Frontier add good game content or change the whole game because of some players are not willing to buy another Elite game?
I can see Exploits with the Ops idea. Like 9 Type 9 full of one cargo than switch to each ship to sell it to one location changing a station from a boom to a bust.
I can see Exploits with the Ops idea. Like 9 Type 9 full of one cargo than switch to each ship to sell it to one location changing a station from a boom to a bust.
Because I own ship kits and paint jobs that are worth more than the base game by a factor of 5 or 6. Then I'd have to buy them again... They should really add linked accounts.
That's why many here have proposed an alternative, which I went into detail specifically on eliminating such exploits:
Absolutely agree with that statement.
Instead of instant travel - I'd much rather see the option to send your CMDR to another station via the same transfer mechanic used for ships (just the other way around).
To avoid any exploits:
1. You must dock at a starport with a shipyard, and can only travel to a starport that currently has one of your ships stored.
2. You may have no ongoing/active missions when commencing your journey.
3. You may not have any cargo aboard your current ship.
4. You pay a fee based on distance to your destination (same system as with ship transfer)
Why would I like to see something like this?
A) It's immersive and lore friendly - I mean, it's not like all those passenger ships ONLY carry tourists... What would be the point of business class then? (Plus we had a CG to build three stations between the bubble to Colonia for the creation of a "freight and passenger transportation service known as the Blue Star Line")
B) A player can head out to Colonia with a ship, then decide to head back to the bubble via transit (which in this "extreme" case would take a couple of days to complete). That makes it possible for CMDRs who have limited time, to also travel greater distances in the game.
EDIT: Old Duck and rootsrat beat me to it!
Autopilot is an answer to this issue. Maybe just moving ship along with player to other station via mobile app (without cargo, etc, etc).
Choosing ship is no better than teleporting as parking sideys everywhere is not that expensive.
Choosing ship is no better than teleporting as parking sideys everywhere is not that expensive.
Ok, let's deal with the complaints.
It would still be a vast galaxy. You would not be able to go anywhere that you hadn't already travelled to before in a ship.
The scale is retained because you still need to jump somewhere in a ship in order to be able to access that location at a later date.
The flexibility is that you don't have to come back in order to do something else.
As someone who opposed instant ship transfer and somewhat regrets the doubling of base FSD ranges, I firmly believe in retaining the scale and do not feel that it is lost by the proposal.
This is not going to get your ship to Colonia or Beagle Point any faster.
This is not going to allow you to teleport to the latest CG without taking a ship there first.
That is not going to help you counter the Thargoid menace or repair stations without taking those ships to where they're needed.
Now that's out of the way, let's look at potential exploits.
We've already dealt with the cargo exploit.
If you log out with cargo in your ship, that's the only ship available to log back in to.
The materials exploit.
Well, this is a magic macguffin as it stands so we can make it work however we want.
My suggestion would be to split materials storage into two parts.
You'd have the current version of materials but you can only access that when you are docked - that storage is permanent and cannot be lost. If you prefer, we can make that storage only accessible at the brokers and at engineers, although remote engineering would require access from all docks.
Then you'd have materials storage on each ship.
The materials you gather with that ship stay with that ship until you dock and transfer it to the shared storage.
If you lose the ship before you do that, you lose the materials on the ship.
You won't get instant unlocks from special materials like Guardian parts without bringing them back to the bubble first.
You won't be able to instantly use that Technetium you just hoovered up without docking somewhere first.
Missions, and anything else on the Transactions tab are linked to the ship in the same way as bounties.
You can only perform and complete those tasks in the same ship you took the mission with.
And finally, exploration data. That is stored with the ship until you hand it in from that ship.
Any other exploits to deal with or are we solely falling back on the feel of the game and immersion?
As for parking Sidewinders everywhere, how exactly does that help anything?
In order to truly take advantage of the proposal, you'd need a lot of ships. Specialized ships for each type of gameplay that you like to engage in, quite possibly more than one of each. Likely engineered to get the most out of them.
That is a significant investment of time and effort.
Those specialized ships can then maximise your time doing what they were built for instead of shlepping back and forth whenever you decide to switch gameplay style.
It would still be a vast galaxy. You would not be able to go anywhere that you hadn't already travelled to before in a ship.
The scale is retained because you still need to jump somewhere in a ship in order to be able to access that location at a later date.
The flexibility is that you don't have to come back in order to do something else.
As someone who opposed instant ship transfer and somewhat regrets the doubling of base FSD ranges, I firmly believe in retaining the scale and do not feel that it is lost by the proposal.
This is not going to get your ship to Colonia or Beagle Point any faster.
This is not going to allow you to teleport to the latest CG without taking a ship there first.
That is not going to help you counter the Thargoid menace or repair stations without taking those ships to where they're needed.
Now that's out of the way, let's look at potential exploits.
We've already dealt with the cargo exploit.
If you log out with cargo in your ship, that's the only ship available to log back in to.
The materials exploit.
Well, this is a magic macguffin as it stands so we can make it work however we want.
My suggestion would be to split materials storage into two parts.
You'd have the current version of materials but you can only access that when you are docked - that storage is permanent and cannot be lost. If you prefer, we can make that storage only accessible at the brokers and at engineers, although remote engineering would require access from all docks.
Then you'd have materials storage on each ship.
The materials you gather with that ship stay with that ship until you dock and transfer it to the shared storage.
If you lose the ship before you do that, you lose the materials on the ship.
You won't get instant unlocks from special materials like Guardian parts without bringing them back to the bubble first.
You won't be able to instantly use that Technetium you just hoovered up without docking somewhere first.
Missions, and anything else on the Transactions tab are linked to the ship in the same way as bounties.
You can only perform and complete those tasks in the same ship you took the mission with.
And finally, exploration data. That is stored with the ship until you hand it in from that ship.
Any other exploits to deal with or are we solely falling back on the feel of the game and immersion?
As for parking Sidewinders everywhere, how exactly does that help anything?
In order to truly take advantage of the proposal, you'd need a lot of ships. Specialized ships for each type of gameplay that you like to engage in, quite possibly more than one of each. Likely engineered to get the most out of them.
That is a significant investment of time and effort.
Those specialized ships can then maximise your time doing what they were built for instead of shlepping back and forth whenever you decide to switch gameplay style.
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If this was done in a way similar to NMS (summon Freighter, jump into your ship, fly to your Freighter, jump in one of your other ships), then I wouldn't mind, though: 1. We don't have mobile bases in Elite 2. If we had them, it is likely this sort of procedure wouldn't be instantaneous. Another option could be done through the "Recall Ship" whilst in the SRV. So that you could choose to recall any of your ships and the current one would be sent back "home". Again, can't see it happening immediately. And personally, I don't think any of such options should have immediate effect. Remember that you can also have your ship transported to you these days.
Sure, it's a Sci-Fi game and realism is not exactly its goal, but personally I like it having some logic behind the mechanics. I can see some things I would tweak in ED, I would like some automation when it comes to exploration or mining, but definitely I don't want it to turn into a clone of Space Invaders.
These days, unless I leave the bubble, I seldom make more than 15 jumps. Unless I switch to Corvette, that one has a painful jump range. The rest of my ships jump over 25Ly (fully armoured and reinforced Chieftain and Defender), over 30Ly (mission running, mining and trading vessels) and in the range of about 50Ly (exploration vessels). I always was and I am in favour of a jump range buff for all the ships (in a way so that the ones with lowest jump range currently get the biggest buff - so that they become more popular and more fun to use). I certainly can see jump range getting a boost within the bubble (due to higher accuracy of navigational data). I do agree that higher jump range (especially within the bubble) would make the gameplay more dynamic. But I see few hundred light years as excessive and unnecessary.
Ceos, to me, is next door. In my AspX, DBX or CondaX it's about 10 jumps from Sol. That's some 15 minutes (fuel scooping included), not half an hour. Half the number of jumps if I was really in a hurry and wanted to use FSD injection. My advice would be switching to using ships with the highest jump range possible and leaving non-exploration ships in your home system. It's not like you need that heavily armored combat ship somewhere 5k Ly from Sol.
Lestat
Banned
Woopie do. I paid for Kickstarter $300 to support to have this game made so you can play this game. So buying another account really not out of line and buying Paints and kits for the other account not out of line. It helps support future upgrades for this game. Unless you don't want to support the game?
Both accounts are not connected with each other which prevent most Exploits. The Ops idea has a lot of holes in it and it hurts the game.
I would rather have Frontier let us Merge our accounts into one but still keep them separated. This will eliminate any exploit two sperate account has. At least with this idea, it supports Frontier future upgrades and has no exploits. So you can have 1 ship in the bubble while the other ship at beagle point.
Fullquote (though in spoilers) and rep because very well said. This really sums it up nicely.
Lestat
Banned
People you are going it not going to hurt the Galaxy vastness. Ok, let look at this. Boy, you all must be blind. If they add a station to beagle point and use this bad feature Or if you fly back to Jaques. Guess what you cut that Galaxy vastness in in 1/2 or 1/4 depending on the location. That is a BAD move. Part of the Vastness is flying back. It not teleporting back.
If funny skilled players now can get to beagle point in 7 to 15 hours. That within a day. You are all asking for an instant mode. When it so easy to get to that location in such little time.
The people who are asking for teleportation to other ships. You either have a bad ship build and need help on a ship build. Or don't really want to play this game because the galaxy is so huge.
If funny skilled players now can get to beagle point in 7 to 15 hours. That within a day. You are all asking for an instant mode. When it so easy to get to that location in such little time.
The people who are asking for teleportation to other ships. You either have a bad ship build and need help on a ship build. Or don't really want to play this game because the galaxy is so huge.
Quite the opposite. I want to play the game instead of spending endless amounts of time shuffling ships around.
No - you want to adapt the game to fit with what you want - i.e. you want to play YOUR game, not THE game.
By all means ask for changes to the game's paradigm but in the meantime you have to adapt to suit the game as there is very little chance of the game actually being adapted to suit you.
Welcome to the E: D galaxy surfarer!
Two basic reasons:
Its a simulator not an arcade game. IE its because of immersion/realism. If we had multislot cmdrs, unfortunately those that paid for separate accounts would have a conniption fit.
It would open the door to all kinds of nasty game destroying exploits.
I understand what you're saying but your alternative would be problematic to say the least.
My DBX does that and a Ist class cabin too!
Brilliant. I like it
Two basic reasons:
Its a simulator not an arcade game. IE its because of immersion/realism. If we had multislot cmdrs, unfortunately those that paid for separate accounts would have a conniption fit.
It would open the door to all kinds of nasty game destroying exploits.
I understand what you're saying but your alternative would be problematic to say the least.
My DBX does that and a Ist class cabin too!
Brilliant. I like it