I treat people as I find them.
I'm curious, what do you class as 'playing the game'
- Thread starter Saool
- Start date
I treat people as I find them.
Playing the game you want to play how you want it to play.
For example if I PvP (combat) and destroy a wanted CMDR I am limited to 2m cr payouts max. Not even materials. I have to do PvE and wake scanning (which is far, far easier and therefor boring as hell) to get the required materials to do what I intend to do. What makes it a grind is the repetetive nature of the way too simple tasks and most importnalty the low payout combined with a low spawn rate of the needed targets. let it be wakes, NPCs, missions, etc.
The grind is defined as doing simple tasks all over again due to the lack of challenging but rewarding tasks.
Hence wing missions are worthless as they do not pay out the same way solo missions do. For example cr/t for hauling missions is merely 10% of solo missions. If they would pay out the same way solo mission would, wing missions would recieve significantly more value.
To be more specific:
Haul 100 t of cargo for 100.000 cr = 1.000 cr/t
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 400.000 cr = 200 cr/t (not worth doing at all)
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 2.000.000 cr = 1.000 cr/t (still not worth doing due to increased challenge but same payout ... unless they increased the time limit by the same amount they increased the amount of cargo to haul).
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 8.000.000 cr = 4.000 cr/t (worth doing due to x4 times payout. No real profit for a wing of 4 but profit for a wing of 3 or less ... the less players, the better the payout ... considering split rewards instead of added).
For example if I PvP (combat) and destroy a wanted CMDR I am limited to 2m cr payouts max. Not even materials. I have to do PvE and wake scanning (which is far, far easier and therefor boring as hell) to get the required materials to do what I intend to do. What makes it a grind is the repetetive nature of the way too simple tasks and most importnalty the low payout combined with a low spawn rate of the needed targets. let it be wakes, NPCs, missions, etc.
The grind is defined as doing simple tasks all over again due to the lack of challenging but rewarding tasks.
Hence wing missions are worthless as they do not pay out the same way solo missions do. For example cr/t for hauling missions is merely 10% of solo missions. If they would pay out the same way solo mission would, wing missions would recieve significantly more value.
To be more specific:
Haul 100 t of cargo for 100.000 cr = 1.000 cr/t
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 400.000 cr = 200 cr/t (not worth doing at all)
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 2.000.000 cr = 1.000 cr/t (still not worth doing due to increased challenge but same payout ... unless they increased the time limit by the same amount they increased the amount of cargo to haul).
Haul 2.000 t of cargo for 8.000.000 cr = 4.000 cr/t (worth doing due to x4 times payout. No real profit for a wing of 4 but profit for a wing of 3 or less ... the less players, the better the payout ... considering split rewards instead of added).
Lately i consider being logged in to the forum and reading bug reports playing the game. 3.02 and previous i was trying to support a player faction by doing missions.
i really dont have a goal in this game but for some strange way i enjoy that!?
for me when i play the game i spend most of my time doing is exploring out in deep space scanning most of the planets/stars i come across i will occasionally return home though to help in the war effort and kill a few pirates
I don't think there's anything strange at all about that; as I've said there are plenty of times I just jump into a ship, take off and see where my mood takes me. Usually using either a Python or a Corvette with a very generalised build, which will let me accept pretty much any mission, do some time in a CZ or res site, etc.
In many ways the game is at its best when you're not pursuing a particular target, precisely because the underpinning design ethos is such that the more specific a 'thing' you're trying to do, the more barriers the game puts in place to prevent you from doing it in a time-efficient or expedient way.
I wouldn't seek to change the availability of that 'pottering around' gameplay at all, it's a totally valid gameplay style and it's good to have a game that provides that experience when so many games these days basically take you through them on rails, with loads of hand-holding thrown in for good measure.
However I do think there's scope to improve some aspects of target-driven gameplay without having any negative effect at all on the more freewheeling end of the experience.
The changes that FDev made to (for example) engineering in the most recent update are a good example of that, in that all of the changes they did make are positive ones. Even aspects that I was unconvinced about before 3.0 went live, such as the need to roll each individual module from grades 1-5 each time, have proven to be not at all onerous in the live version after they tweaked the number of lower grade rolls that were needed to advance after acting on feedback during the beta.
It's just that accepting that a package of changes which were implemented has been beneficial isn't a reason to stop suggesting further aspects of the game which could stand improvement. It's this 'Shut up and be happy with what you got' mentality that puzzles me; I am happy with what we got, much of which came from constructive targeted feedback from players, so why is giving further constructive and targeted feedback misconstrued as 'whining' and dismissed?
I can understand that attitude when it's directed at the ridiculous hyperbole-laden posts and threads that decry whole sections of the game as being crap, worthless or whatever - I have much the same opinion of those myself, but there seems to be a willingness to lump anything other than universal praise under the same heading and that's really not conducive to healthy debate, or in helping to inform the developer's thinking.
The game has shipped over 2m units and with a potential player base that large there is obviously going to be a significant range of gameplay styles represented. Surely it's in the best interests of the long-term future of the game to ensure that as many of those as possible are viable since that is ultimately what will keep non LEP holders spending their money on future updates.
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People's definitions of "grind" will naturally vary.
My definition is any repetitious task done to such an extent that it ceases to be enjoyable.
On a few occasions over the years I've found myself slip into that mode during a play session, caught myself and asked myself "what in the world am I doing?", stopped, and moved onto something else in the game that I knew I would enjoy.
Avoiding the grind is all about self-awareness, and knowing that there is no activity in the game that is mandatory. Unless you're a highly competitive gamer, in which case I think you're stuck with it.
My definition is any repetitious task done to such an extent that it ceases to be enjoyable.
On a few occasions over the years I've found myself slip into that mode during a play session, caught myself and asked myself "what in the world am I doing?", stopped, and moved onto something else in the game that I knew I would enjoy.
Avoiding the grind is all about self-awareness, and knowing that there is no activity in the game that is mandatory. Unless you're a highly competitive gamer, in which case I think you're stuck with it.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
This.
There is no denying grind is in the game, but it's entirely player's choice whether they want to engage in it.
As soon as something feels grindy, I stop doing it and switch to something else. It worked like a charm for the last 3000 hours...
For me, it's the most useful way to engage with it. The Fdev path is one way but off-road is better.
I disagree, but I don't necessarily think grind is derogatory. Semantics at its worst.
Ship building to our personal specifications is a heavily promoted feature of the game, though, and 3.0 in particular. It's arguably the game's most developed individual component, or at least second after combat.
If I'd stopped building my new PvP ship when gathering the last mat I needed felt grindy, that ship wouldn't have been completed.
Indeed, it still wouldn't be completed 3,000 in-game hours from now, because sadly some mats still go hand-in-hand with grind. I'd probably die of old age before acquiring them 'organically'.
Playing the game... hmm.
get exceedingly cr wealthy by taking advantage of every credit loophole, bug, and glitch around until it's fixed!
OK I have given that a break for the moment, right now I'm at Morgan's Rock eyeballing the Cat's Paw nebula
It has sentimental value for me to be back there
And that... that is me playing the game, and enjoying the choice to do just what I want
Shame I cant get my avatar out of my chair... but, can't have it all can we!
get exceedingly cr wealthy by taking advantage of every credit loophole, bug, and glitch around until it's fixed!
OK I have given that a break for the moment, right now I'm at Morgan's Rock eyeballing the Cat's Paw nebula
It has sentimental value for me to be back there And that... that is me playing the game, and enjoying the choice to do just what I want
Shame I cant get my avatar out of my chair... but, can't have it all can we!
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah, PVP is an exception here I think.
Playing the game is not mutually exclusive to grinding; quite the opposite. You couldn't be grinding in Elite Dangerous if you weren't playing Elite Dangerous.
What you seem to be describing is that you like grinding, which is fine but is not the experience of the majority of people. This is because most people don't like doing extremely repetitive tasks again and again and again in order to achieve their goals in a video game.
People still do grind of course, for a great variety of reasons. But most often they don't find the experience itself enjoyable; they do it, for example, because of the rewards they will get at the end.
Playing the game... hmm.
get exceedingly cr wealthy by taking advantage of every credit loophole, bug, and glitch around until it's fixed!
OK I have given that a break for the moment, right now I'm at Morgan's Rock eyeballing the Cat's Paw nebula
And that... that is me playing the game, and enjoying the choice to do just what I want
Shame I cant get my avatar out of my chair... but, can't have it all can we!
Do you see the Moose Knuckle nebula out there? if so don't get too close.
Well you are "mostly harmless" so there's that..
And Exploration, eh?
Let's face it, you can avoid "grind" all you like but, in doing so, you're going to end up with an exploration ship that can't go a lot of places and takes twice as long to get there.
Truesilver's on the money IMO.
It's no good saying "If you don't like grind, don't do it" because a lot of the prep-work for a lot of other pursuits (possibly all?) in the game relies on "grind" to get a ship ready to go and do those things optimally.
As I said, I'm not totally opposed to this.
I certainly prefer ED now, when upgrading a ship can take a week, to how it was pre-engineers - where you could just rock-up at Jameson Memorial, spend 10 minutes in the Equipping page and you're done.
It's far more satisfying to complete an upgraded ship now than it was when you just spend credits to achieve it.
I just wish that process, itself, could be a bit more interesting.
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