PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[DukeIronHand]

offline and open would have been by far preferable solutions imo.

Preferable for who?
The rabid PvP crowd who, again and again, prove the bankruptcy of their chosen style of play because it cannot support itself? That it needs others to be their targets and content to give their Engineered super combat machines meaning and purpose? Because clearly at this point PvP’ers can’t play among themselves. Need some explorers and traders that way their paint won’t be scratched? It’s a game. Play your own way. Leave others to theirs and, shockingly, that may not involve you trying to blow them up when they are playing. Weird I know.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

Seriously you guys, this is why I can never fully identify with you no matter how hard I try: because when someone says "I'm too busy in my real life to become skilled, but I still had time to get myself into a mighty corvette and even that isn't enough to make feel secure!" and that's perfectly bueno with all of you, yet when someone calls it out that person is the bad guy. Look, I've had a problem with this crowd since 2.1 to be perfectly honest, and as far as I'm concerned it's this crowd who has in effect had/kept ED nerfed into the ground.

For the record, I'm middle aged, have three small children, own my own business and put in a longer work weak than any single person I know, and yet I still manage to not use that as excuse to have the game hog tied at "lowest common denominator levels."

You may consider it a weak excuse on my part; I am not offended. I AM simply not that good. Nothing will change that, no matter if i tried to put in more hours (which I can't, period). And I was not complaining, neither was I trying to paint you as the bad guy. Heck, I didn't even say I was not feeling secure enough. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. I don't care if anybody accuses me of brown-nosing -- I respect the HECK out of guys like you. It's just I cannot keep pace. If that's shameful, so what. It's just not my thing.

C'mon, Mr. jasonbarron, I was not attacking you. Consider yourself simply superior and be done with it, and, no, that wasn't sarcasm. I have no problem admitting it when somebody is simply better than I am. I'm not that self-conceited.

So, rest assured, I was not trying to attack you, and if you gained that impression, I am sorry. I didn't mean it that way.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Seriously you guys, this is why I can never fully identify with you no matter how hard I try: because when someone says "I'm too busy in my real life to become skilled, but I still had time to get myself into a mighty corvette and even that isn't enough to make feel secure!" and that's perfectly bueno with all of you, yet when someone calls it out that person is the bad guy. Look, I've had a problem with this crowd since 2.1 to be perfectly honest, and as far as I'm concerned it's this crowd who has in effect had/kept ED nerfed into the ground.

For the record, I'm middle aged, have three small children, own my own business and put in a longer work weak than any single person I know, and yet I still manage to not use that as excuse to have the game hog tied at "lowest common denominator levels."

Yeah and then they turn around and grind for 2 months against a player faction. Saying they have no need/time to engineer.

 

[jasonbarron]

You may consider it a weak excuse on my part; I am not offended. I AM simply not that good. Nothing will change that, no matter if i tried to put in more hours (which I can't, period). And I was not complaining, neither was I trying to paint you as the bad guy. Heck, I didn't even say I was not feeling secure enough. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. I don't care if anybody accuses me of brown-nosing -- I respect the HECK out of guys like you. It's just I cannot keep pace. If that's shameful, so what. It's just not my thing.

C'mon, Mr. jasonbarron, I was not attacking you. Consider yourself simply superior and be done with it, and, no, that wasn't sarcasm. I have no problem admitting it when somebody is simply better than I am. I'm not that self-conceited.

So, rest assured, I was not trying to attack you, and if you gained that impression, I am sorry. I didn't mean it that way.

You might have been offended if you'd seen the post that came before that the mods took down and issued an advisory for trolling/flaming I'm glad they did, because it was a little out of line and I regret putting it that harshly.

Look, all sarcasm and posturing aside: 1) I consider it unseemly to have a Corvette, yet complain about how little time you have because of real world obligations, and 2) I feel that the low effort crowd, in tandem with the career farmers, have kept the potential of this game throttled down below acceptable levels. It's nothing personal, I just think players like you and everyone who's dog-piled the OP have more or less ruined PvE for those of us who are willing to reach a little higher. I've said it since the early part of this thread; when a player can solo wing assassination missions in their Viper, that's not a statement on how good they are, but rather a statement on the sad state of NPC's, and I consider everyone who's turned this into "Oh look, he's bragging again!" to be deliberately obfuscating.

 

[cmdr kruzer70]

Preferable for who?
The rabid PvP crowd who, again and again, prove the bankruptcy of their chosen style of play because it cannot support itself? That it needs others to be their targets and content to give their Engineered super combat machines meaning and purpose? Because clearly at this point PvP’ers can’t play among themselves. Need some explorers and traders that way their paint won’t be scratched? It’s a game. Play your own way. Leave others to theirs and, shockingly, that may not involve you trying to blow them up when they are playing. Weird I know.

A big part of the gulf is due to the PvP's complete inability to recognise reality. Even when they are trying to be helpful, they are clueless. Look a Rinzler's attempt for advice for trading in open. All you have to do is sacrifice 30-50% of your cargo capacity to build your cargo ship in a manner that will allow it to survive (maybe) long enough to run away. Ok, reasonable advice but what is the incentive to trade in Open? I can trade in Solo with double the cargo capacity or I can go with half the cargo in Open with the only difference being I can be a fox so the PvP can have their fox hunt. Is it really beyond the comprehension of these guys that most players choose the mode to play on that they do?

Ultimately, PvP is yet another example of FD's inability to avoid squandering the potential of this game. Imagine if you had in game player groups with their own bases. Now imagine there are missions requiring sensitive cargo to be run across a route. One group has the mission to get that cargo safely to the destination while the other has the mission to stop that cargo from arriving. You would have people running those 'reinforced' cargo ships while being escorted by PvP fighters in their Apex ships.

Truthfully, members of the PvP community could actually organise and run such events now. But, I guess it's much easier to cry and complain to FD and try to force changes in the game that benefit them at the expense of the rest of the community. This is further aggravated by the fact that when FD does bend to their wishes they end up screwing up everything to the point where the PvP players end up not getting what they intended and the rest get stuck with a mess.

 

[Fendalton]

First off, Elite is actually a PVE game with pvp.

Second, PVP players, often and more than not, have giant ego's because they have to feel superior and enjoy proving it. That, is their enjoyment. Other's, though a smaller amount prefer the differences a human brings that an npc does not.

Jesus Christ dude, maybe PvPers just want a challenge that the NPC's can't offer?

----

It's a shame when you need to think "Oh I need to do some PvE, so better swap out all ammunition based weapons for lasers so I can farm longer, and my BiWeaves for Prims" because your competitive PvP loadout is focused on Burst Damage in 4v4's or 1v1's.

PvP and PvE Loadouts are completely different. We won't even get into PP weapons having no effect against NPC's

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Jesus Christ dude, maybe PvPers just want a challenge that the NPC's can't offer?

----

It's a shame when you need to think "Oh I need to do some PvE, so better swap out all ammunition based weapons for lasers so I can farm longer, and my BiWeaves for Prims" because your competitive PvP loadout is focused on Burst Damage in 4v4's or 1v1's.

PvP and PvE Loadouts are completely different. We won't even get into PP weapons having no effect against NPC's

This is greifer talk. /s I said this same thing as was told all I wanted to do was club seals because people were effecting my BGS player faction.

These guys are the same people that didnt understand the exploitable heat lasers n stuff.

 

[cmdr kruzer70]

Look, all sarcasm and posturing aside: 1) I've said it since the early part of this thread; when a player can solo wing assassination missions in their Viper, that's not a statement on how good they are, but rather a statement on the sad state of NPC's, and I consider everyone who's turned this into "Oh look, he's bragging again!" to be deliberately obfuscating.

This is pure malarky;

1. His 'Viper' was engineered to the point that it isn't even really a Viper anymore. (DPS: 488.4, Integrity 1459).
2. He didn't survive
3. The NPC Cutter wasn't Elite

This ship isn't available to the majority of the community you are completely distorting reality with your contention.

 

[Riverside]

PvP and PvE Loadouts are completely different. We won't even get into PP weapons having no effect against NPC's

This is what the thread is (intended to be) about. Can you expand in this? earlier in the thread it was broadly agreed that the difference was between combat & non-combat ships, a split I'm not entirely sure is the case.

Can you expand on how & why your loadouts are different, and what you think would allow you to use one loadout for all combat?

 

[DukeIronHand]

“my BGS player faction.” Hehehe!
Did you say that with a straight face? Hard to tell with text.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This is pure malarky;

1. His 'Viper' was engineered to the point that it isn't even really a Viper anymore. (DPS: 488.4, Integrity 1459).
2. He didn't survive
3. The NPC Cutter wasn't Elite

This ship isn't available to the majority of the community you are completely distorting reality with your contention.

Bull, Engineering is pretty easy to do now. The Viper is a early game ship.

Anyone can Engineer a ship in their spare time from start to finish in a matter of days. Maybe a couple hours a day now if you understand the game and know where to look.

They changed lots with 3.0. They literally took away 75% of the grind it used to be.

Tired of seeing these excuses flying around.

“my BGS player faction.” Hehehe!
Did you say that with a straight face? Hard to tell with text.

Yeah I did, weve expanded to over 25 systems. Enjoy our community goal this week hot shot.

edit: I said this with a smile on my face.

 

[Riverside]

Bull, Engineering is pretty easy to do now. The Viper is a early game ship.

Anyone can Engineer a ship is their spare time from start to finish in a matter of days. Maybe a couple hours a day now if you understand the game and know where to look.

They changes lots with 3.0. They literally took away 75% of the grind it used to be.

Tired of seeing these excuses flying around.



Yeah I did, weve expanded to over 25 systems. Enjoy our community goal this week hot shot.

I agree both finding mats & doing the engineering is so much easier. It's still pretty hard to max out one ship - you need to actually visit an engineer to get the secondaries but overall it's a matter of hours or days, rather than days or weeks.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

You may consider it a weak excuse on my part; I am not offended. I AM simply not that good. [...]

That's what I keep telling myself, and then I go ahead and blow through a Wing Assassination Mission and then a High-Intensity CZ with a Farragut to boot... in a moderately Engineered Vulture [wacky] (I was going to post a video of my Vulture in that High-Intensity Conflict zone to illustrate point #2 below, but alas I broke the multi-hour upload halfway through - DOH!).

I have two things to suggest to you:

1) If you can, would you mind posting your Corvette build, a video of you in HazRez/CZ, or both? Sometimes we understate our capabilities when in reality we're much better than what we give ourselves credit for. And if not - well, there are plenty of folks here that can help with your build and your flightstyle (not talking about PVP per se, just some minor flightstyle changes: Pip/SCB management, general situational awareness, some brief FA-Off maneuvers, etc.).

2) If your Rebuy is a big issue for you, I suggest trying a smaller ship. No, seriously - I have a Cutter gathering dust because of that 40 Million Credit rebuy and I hate grinding Credits! Only have ~280 Million in the bank, so a single Rebuy would HURT. Flying a smaller ship (like a Vulture! Those things are effective, fun and EVIL!), while possibly being less effective than a Corvette, is much easier on the Rebuy and allows you to naturally build up a better skillset as you grind out Credits (as there will be situations where you will be outgunned and thus you will get creative to account for the shortcomings of your ship). When you do hop back into your Corvette with these lessons learned, you'll be that much better at flying it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I agree both finding mats & doing the engineering is so much easier. It's still pretty hard to max out one ship - you need to actually visit an engineer to get the secondaries but overall it's a matter of hours or days, rather than days or weeks.

Yeah man its super fast.

When people finally figure this out. SOme of them "big bad pvpers" arent as bad as they think they are. Including myself. But ive never minded a loss. I welcome new guys coming to get me. If I lose and they kill me. Maybe they will feel better about PVPing in general. Cause its not hard. Ill never be salty about it.

 

[Riverside]

Yeah man its super fast.

When people finally figure this out. SOme of them "big bad pvpers" arent as bad as they think they are. Including myself. But ive never minded a loss. I welcome new guys coming to get me. If I lose and they kill me. Maybe they will feel better about PVPing in general. Cause its not hard. Ill never be salty about it.

This has been my experience. I'm friendly with a few players that are into PvP (I play predominantly in Open) and it's more their willingness to just jump in & have a go rather than actual skill or loadout. I'll happily help explain stuff like power priorities to them when their ship switched off deploying hardpoints, and I can evade & chaff just fine. Experience suggests I'm above average in my region of space.

But I am much more cautious, and lack the self confidence in my own ability. That confidence comes with experience that you have, and I lack (relatively speaking). I'm talking about players I actually meet in-game here rather than any top flight super-try-hard streamer.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This has been my experience. I'm friendly with a few players that are into PvP (I play predominantly in Open) and it's more their willingness to just jump in & have a go rather than actual skill or loadout. I'll happily help explain stuff like power priorities to them when their ship switched off deploying hardpoints, and I can evade & chaff just fine. Experience suggests I'm above average in my region of space.

But I am much more cautious, and lack the self confidence in my own ability. That confidence comes with experience that you have, and I lack (relatively speaking). I'm talking about players I actually meet in-game here rather than any top flight super-try-hard streamer.

Them try hard streamers sure are jerks sometimes.

 

[cmdr kruzer70]

Bull, Engineering is pretty easy to do now. The Viper is a early game ship.

Perfect example of the complete inability to live outside your reality distortion field. This https://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk...=.EweloBhBGA2EAsICmBDA5gG2SGF9A===&bn=Scatter is not an early game ship by any stretch of the imagination. Also, let's see him attempt that mission 100 times and see what his completion % is. I'm guessing we didn't get to see any videos of failed attempts.

 

[jasonbarron]

This is pure malarky;

1. His 'Viper' was engineered to the point that it isn't even really a Viper anymore. (DPS: 488.4, Integrity 1459).
2. He didn't survive
3. The NPC Cutter wasn't Elite

This ship isn't available to the majority of the community you are completely distorting reality with your contention.

It's not a case of me "distorting reality" my friend, but rather one of you being oblivious to it.

A ship that's obtainable to the average player within a few hours from starting out in Erevate, coupled with a suite of weapons that were engineered with minimal effort post 3.0. the hardest part being that of waiting for the Cytoscramblers to unlock, not necessarily doing anything in particular. In the video below, the player didn't just just successfully solo the wing assassination target (which is engineered and about 10x tougher to kill then other Deadly Cutters found anywhere else in the game) he was also able to literally ignore the other 5x wing members who wailed on him throughout the entire fight. While I think Frentox is a skilled player and not just anybody is going to be able to pull this off, it shouldn't even be possible in the first place under these circumstances. And when you factor in the degree of difficulty associated with these missions compared to the rest of the NPC's out there, it approaches the absurd.
[video=youtube;xTBV4LoADgk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=255&v=xTBV4LoADgk[/video]

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Perfect example of the complete inability to live outside your reality distortion field. This https://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk...=.EweloBhBGA2EAsICmBDA5gG2SGF9A===&bn=Scatter is not an early game ship by any stretch of the imagination. Also, let's see him attempt that mission 100 times and see what his completion % is. I'm guessing we didn't get to see any videos of failed attempts.

That has a crytoscrampler on it.

LOL!

anyways, the first week AX missiles were relased people solo thargoids. Some guys even did it in a wing of adders.

It really doesnt take long to engineer a ship now.

The Viper is indeed a early game ship. I could probably engineer this ship in less than 3 days. I could Engineer this ship in 8 hours.

However, you are somewhat right. In gaining experience something a new player wouldnt have. But 3rd party tools are available for anyone to look for.

Before Engineers 3.0. I used to min/max a ship on stream in a week. In front of about 75 people every day.

Sorry bud there is no distortion field here. Lots of people has seen me do it.

Im usually not the guy that toots his own horn. Ahh screw it,

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

 

[Riverside]

Them try hard streamers sure are jerks sometimes.

I like the honest ones, TrueSilver, Morbad, Besieger, Sole Hunter etc. I plan my approach to any loadout on the assumption they will be in the next system I jump to. I can FA-off, I can use fixed weapons (but struggle to do both, I use a Hotas), but the first step to winning is survival, and I can do that. 99% of the time it is enough.

There are some real jerks out there, but I either haven't met them in-game or haven't noticed if I have