If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Mengy]

Logs?

I have them, but I won't post them, because no means no. LOL.



Honestly though I'll have to look when I get home. Until this thread I had no idea the game kept logs of any kind.

Even still I could always just fly back and do a run while recording it. It would be the most boring video ever, but then I suppose that is the point of this thread, right?

I've not played any Elite for a month now since buying Subnautica, maybe I could surface from the depths to see where I left my Asp Explorer....

 

[Mole HD]

I have them, but I won't post them, because no means no. LOL.




Honestly though I'll have to look when I get home. Until this thread I had no idea the game kept logs of any kind.

It's the text file Inara/EDDi/ED market connector and EDSM (amongst others) use to connect your Cmdr profile info, systems visited...etc, etc.

 

[HamsNEggs]

I did all 40 weapon blueprints Friday night and Saturday on XBOne.


IF I had done the entire thing on the 2nd site without interruption (see below), my rough estimates to unlock all weapons would be:


40 blueprint runs: ~5-6 hrs
Sentinel/panel mats: ~2 hrs
Travel time: ~1 hr
Finding missions/commodities: ~1 hr
I had the raw mats, but if I didn't: ~1 hr???


First site Friday night in Synuefe was dark, gloomy, lots of sentinels, rough terrain, low gravity. I quit after 8 blueprints. Couldn't take it any longer. Each run was torture, soul crushingly bad.


Second site in Col 173 sector on Saturday was MUCH better. Almost daylight, smooth ground, closer pylons, higher gravity (0.33g) and very few sentinels. Only times I had to even think about fighting them was after shhoting last 2 pylons next to machine, and another after getting the blueprint from the orb. These sentinels could actually be ignored however, and you could relog under fire with the 15 sec timer. Maybe it was the 100% hull repair I did, maybe it was the use of the handbrake, maybe it was the 4 pips to SYS before scanning the orb, but it worked. I'm going to guess that Stigbob used this site, or a similar one.


I split the task into two mini-grinds; blueprint collection, and gathering mats. Did the blueprints ignoring sentinels/panels. The best I could manage on those runs was between 5 and 6 minutes according to clock. Couldn't maintain that consistently though. I mixed the monotony sometimes by killing sentinels and shooting panels as parts of runs. After the blueprints, I re-logged in front of a sentinel/panel pair continuously until I had all the required mats. Finally I returned to bubble to get the commodities from missions/markets.


I won't repeat it for any future weapons, or any of the existing modules. The module sites all look horrible like that HD one that's hard to land at/navigate around. I applaude the feature design, just not the implementation through lazy repetition. Why didn't they just make it one site pre blueprint per weapon/module?

 

[Stigbob]

About half an hour per loop, including relogging and dealing with the sentinels, and shooting the structure panels. Their attacks which bounce the SRV around can really increase the time for each run.

I don't mean this nastily but the first one I did took a lot less time than that and I hadn't hit on the idea of spotting the pylons from the air then. Avoid sentinel fire by using the structures for cover, and park your ship near by with a couple of point defenses in the upper mounts to take out the missiles. If you are out of range of the ship get under the sentinel and his own missiles will destroy him.

I set my SRV controls to work like an FPS, mouse for the turret WSAD for the wheels you just need to watch the display so you know which way your chassis is pointing. Makes it more intuitive, once you get a feel for it.

Someone in an Embassy somewhere would have them, but he's got a few months ban right now.

One thing this Community has...is patience patients.

I have no idea at all what you are blathering on about.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Why didn't they just make it one site pre blueprint per weapon/module?

... because apparently it will be over "too quick" and you will think "huh, that not much of new content here, isn't it?"
Apparently after making such an "effort" over it will fill you with so much sense of "pride and accomplishment" that you won't think about negative things and will attack anyone who questions it

 

[Zhark]

No I have decided it must be leather or something considered non edible by normal standards. Much like the grind in this case it will be a long drawn out painful process that will make my jaw ache. And leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Invest in a good bbq sauce?

 

[Punished Mobius]

My first post in this thread. It does seem to me that what you state in this thread could quite reasonably be compared to similar statistics from others, presuming they are willing to give it a go.

Making demands of another player like this seems rather uncouth. If someone doesn't believe what someone else is saying all they need to do is try it for themselves. Then the question of veracity goes both ways.

But that's kind of the deal here. Compared to other accounts by people like VJ (who made the video) which seem to have a low end of 11-20 hours based on their videos linked. And this guy is adamant that he did it in 5...I find that to be an outlier compared to other accounts of this experience.

Compare that to Mengy and Hamsters accounts of the experience right above this one.

... because apparently it will be over "too quick" and you will think "huh, that not much of new content here, isn't it?"
Apparently after making such an "effort" over it will fill you with so much sense of "pride and accomplishment" that you won't think about negative things and will attack anyone who questions it

You are now an EA executive. Enjoy your new life.

 

[HamsNEggs]

... because apparently it will be over "too quick" and you will think "huh, that not much of new content here, isn't it?"
Apparently after making such an "effort" over it will fill you with so much sense of "pride and accomplishment" that you won't think about negative things and will attack anyone who questions it

Oh yeh good point. Whatever was I thinking...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I'm fearful that Frontier doesn't know how to design fun or engaging non-combat game mechanics. Because if they do then I'm puzzled as to why they consistently don't.

The Guardian unlock is, in itself, fun and engaging - at least, I found it so when I did it the first time.
It took me ages to figure out the pylons and an embarrassingly long time to work out I needed to shoot the final orb thing (It's not like shooting something is an unusual requirement for FDev).

The problem is that people then feel the need to immediately do the same thing another 39 (or whatever the number is now) times.
There's very little in the way of 'fun and engaging' mechanics that can survive that kind of repetition without being considered a 'grind'.

That said, I think the blueprint requirements should be halved across the board.

 

[Riverside]

But that's kind of the deal here. Compared to other accounts by people like VJ (who made the video) which seem to have a low end of 11-20 hours based on their videos linked. And this guy is adamant that he did it in 5...I find that to be an outlier compared to other accounts of this experience.

Compare that to Mengy and Hamsters accounts of the experience right above this one.

You are the OP of this thread, you are looking for another player to justify their counter-argument. Where can I find your results? It's a big thread, I accept I may have missed you posting them.

 

[Mole HD]

The Guardian unlock is, in itself, fun and engaging - at least, I found it so when I did it the first time.
It took me ages to figure out the pylons and an embarrassingly long time to work out I needed to shoot the final orb thing (It's not like shooting something is an unusual requirement for FDev).

The problem is that people then feel the need to immediately do the same thing another 39 (or whatever the number is now) times.
There's very little in the way of 'fun and engaging' mechanics that can survive that kind of repetition without being considered a 'grind'.

That said, I think the blueprint requirements should be halved across the board.

To my mind the entire blueprint thing need not have existed in the first place. We don't need 'speshul gunz' to shoot at Thargoids, merely different ammunition for the myriad of 'speshul gunz' we already have.

Personally, I'd rather the useless blueprint scenario had been used to discover a new bloody scanner suite so I don't have to fly along at zero feet with my headlights on to find anything on a planetary surface.

All this shooting... for shooting sake. There's more shooting mechanics in this game then there is in an average episode of Hawaii 5-0 [rolleyes]

 

[HamsNEggs]

The Guardian unlock is, in itself, fun and engaging - at least, I found it so when I did it the first time.
It took me ages to figure out the pylons and an embarrassingly long time to work out I needed to shoot the final orb thing (It's not like shooting something is an unusual requirement for FDev).

The problem is that people then feel the need to immediately do the same thing another 39 (or whatever the number is now) times.
There's very little in the way of 'fun and engaging' mechanics that can survive that kind of repetition without being considered a 'grind'.

That said, I think the blueprint requirements should be halved across the board.

I'm not disputing that getting them all at once is outside of their original intent and yes it was fun the first 3 or 4 times. I originally only went to get the plasma chargers.

What was/is a good fun feature was partially ruined by asking us to repeat the process 4, 8, or 10 times per weapon. If I'm asked to do something that many times, its repeatable at the same location and that location is 1000 LY away from the bubble, why wouldn't I just stay there and do it all at once 40 times instead.


If they had cut down the number of blueprints, but made each weapon and modules specific to their own Guardian site, I'd probably have just got the plasma chargers, saving the others for when I felt like doing it again.

 

[Stigbob]

The Guardian unlock is, in itself, fun and engaging - at least, I found it so when I did it the first time.
It took me ages to figure out the pylons and an embarrassingly long time to work out I needed to shoot the final orb thing (It's not like shooting something is an unusual requirement for FDev).

The problem is that people then feel the need to immediately do the same thing another 39 (or whatever the number is now) times.
There's very little in the way of 'fun and engaging' mechanics that can survive that kind of repetition without being considered a 'grind'.

That said, I think the blueprint requirements should be halved across the board.

The other balancing pass they could make is to decrease the timer a bit, it's currently a little too easy.

 

[Mengy]

The Guardian unlock is, in itself, fun and engaging - at least, I found it so when I did it the first time.

I agree with this. The ruins are exceptionally well done. I loved running around them and exploring, even the sentinels are designed well and I enjoy combating them, and the orb event was really great the first time or two. The problem arises when you realize that you have to do the same things a truckload of times in order to meet your goals.

Frontier, as usual, designed in a huge grind wall for whatever reason. And as usual the asset and sound teams did a tremendous job, but the mechanics team failed terribly.

It’s even more outrageous because the situation wouldn’t have been hard to fix from the initial design point of view. Instead of having two types of blueprints have a dozen or two unique types, and then change the Tech Brokers to only require one each of two or three blueprints to unlock an item. Instead of making the player repeat one event at one ruin 20+ times, make them do the event once or twice at each ruin but then break that up with flying time and SRV navigation to travel to other ruins.

This is basic MMO timewall design: break up the grind into many activities across a range of locations. Grind walls can still keep players engaged for long periods as long as it isn’t repetitive or boring. Make it a varied exercise instead of a singular repetitive one.

Makes me terrified to see what they have planned for exploration in Q4!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I agree with this. The ruins are exceptionally well done. I loved running around them and exploring, even the sentinels are designed well and I enjoy combating them, and the orb event was really great the first time or two. The problem arises when you realize that you have to do the same things a truckload of times in order to meet your goals.

Frontier, as usual, designed in a huge grind wall for whatever reason. And as usual the asset and sound teams did a tremendous job, but the mechanics team failed terribly.

It’s even more outrageous because the situation wouldn’t have been hard to fix from the initial design point of view. Instead of having two types of blueprints have a dozen or two unique types, and then change the Tech Brokers to only require one each of two or three blueprints to unlock an item. Instead of making the player repeat one event at one ruin 20+ times, make them do the event once or twice at each ruin but then break that up with flying time and SRV navigation to travel to other ruins.

This is basic MMO timewall design: break up the grind into many activities across a range of locations. Grind walls can still keep players engaged for long periods as long as it isn’t repetitive or boring. Make it a varied exercise instead of a singular repetitive one.

Makes me terrified to see what they have planned for exploration in Q4!

If it isn't repetitive and boring then by definition it can't be a grind wall.

In my opinion this guardian unlock is the only grind wall there is in the game. Everything else doesn't need grind to achieve. That's player choice.

Why they have done it like this is beyond me. It doesn't make sense and is nothing like other parts of the game.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Makes me terrified to see what they have planned for exploration in Q4!

What? You're not looking forward to having to fly around each planet 23 times to scan it fully?
And you call yourself an explorer!

Why they have done it like this is beyond me. It doesn't make sense and is nothing like other parts of the game.

It's EXACTLY the same as the timed data point mechanic for planetary bases, except you shoot things rather than scan them.

[Edit]
Oh! Did you mean on the macro (repeat 40 times) level, not the actual mechanics?

 

[Stigbob]

If it isn't repetitive and boring then by definition it can't be a grind wall.

In my opinion this guardian unlock is the only grind wall there is in the game. Everything else doesn't need grind to achieve. That's player choice.

Why they have done it like this is beyond me. It doesn't make sense and is nothing like other parts of the game.

It's possible they looked at the metrics and realized grinding things like the latest cash exploit/engineering/ships/fleets is one of the most popular pastimes in ED.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It's possible they looked at the metrics and realized grinding things like the latest cash exploit/engineering/ships/fleets is one of the most popular pastimes in ED.

If the Guardian unlocks paid 100M Cr as well as a blueprint, people wouldn't be complaining about the grind.
Instead they'd be competing to see how fast they can complete them to maximize the Cr/hr.

 

[Stigbob]

If the Guardian unlocks paid 100M Cr as well as a blueprint, people wouldn't be complaining about the grind.
Instead they'd be competing to see how fast they can complete them to maximize the Cr/hr.

Imaginary space-cash makes people do some very strange things.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's possible they looked at the metrics and realized grinding things like the latest cash exploit/engineering/ships/fleets is one of the most popular pastimes in ED.

I would be surprised if that was the case.