Guardian SLF - magic ships?

[Deleted member 110222]

Guys.

It's a game.

Fantasy doesn't hurt.

Lighten up. (like the blue glowing bits on the fighters)

 

[Dbrn47]

Or do you scream immersion at your fridge, in the mornings.

Do you not? My fridge breaks my immersion constantly, especially when it runs out of my favorite drinks. Damn thing.

I'm having a hard time believing someone was actually suggesting they stick to human politics... as if we don't get enough of that in real life. 'Let's keep the game true to life please, it's a great basis for a video game that's intended to break us away from reality for a bit.' Bring on the aliens in real life too, I say, then the immersionists will truly be reeling. [alien]

 

[lenna]

But this for me is the point. Why is is expected?

With-in any given culture there are typically established norms, that is why.

Why are humans considered to be a mess if cultures?

Because we are, there is no single religion or philosophy that we all adhere to, our individual countries also have histories that define our respective cultures. Humanity as a race is extremely diverse and fractured and there are differences even with our established cultures. Even in ED, humanity is not united as a single race - we have the Federation, Alliance, Imperials, and a myriad of Independents. Compared with the state of the world now, I would reckon (if anything) the ED universe is even more fractured and diverse.

 

[Saool]

With-in any given culture there are typically established norms, that is why.


Because we are, there is no single religion or philosophy that we all adhere to, our individual countries also have histories that define our respective cultures. Humanity as a race is extremely diverse and fractured and there are differences even with our established cultures. Even in ED, humanity is not united as a single race - we have the Federation, Alliance, Imperials, and a myriad of Independents. Compared with the state of the world now, I would reckon (if anything) the ED universe is even more fractured and diverse.

Ok. But my point is, how do you know that is strange? How do you know that is not how it happens on 99% of worlds where sentient life pops up?

 

[lenna]

Ok. But my point is, how do you know that is strange? How do you know that is not how it happens on 99% of worlds where sentient life pops up?

You don't really have a point - I have already gone to great lengths to try and explain why things are as they are and if you still don't get it then there is no real point discussing the general esoterics any further.

Suffice to say, the general principles that ED have adopted for cultural lore both in terms of the Thargoids and Guardians is consistent with the general norms for sci-fi and sci-fantasy lore. Regardless of ship and tech diversity factors (or lack there of), FD have gone to great lengths to ensure the lore itself is quite detailed.

 

[Saool]

You don't really have a point - I have already gone to great lengths to try and explain why things are as they are and if you still don't get it then there is no real point discussing the general esoterics any further.

Suffice to say, the general principles that ED have adopted for cultural lore both in terms of the Thargoids and Guardians is consistent with the general norms for sci-fi and sci-fantasy lore. Regardless of ship and tech diversity factors (or lack there of), FD have gone to great lengths to ensure the lore itself is quite detailed.

And at this point I lost all respect for you. I was going to add to my explanation, but since you have decided I don't have a point I guess I'll save my time. Enjoy your ivory tower.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Maglev: yep. Problem is that wheeled trains evolved while the Maglevs were developed. Wheeled are just too good at the moment compared to current Maglev designs, the main problem isn't the wheels any more but the air. Hyperloop might have the potential to change that.

There's also the human capacity for hysteresis, we are slow to change what we have even when better technology arrives, so long as the old still works "well enough". Just look at how long it took for the U.S. to go from NTSC* to HDTV, now that HDTV is established going from 1080i to 8K isn't going to be a major change, in hindsight. As a side note, I think this is why Elite Dangerous' development seems slow, they started with something that was good, even revolutionary, at the time but found that moving forward from there was going to be difficult. I think they'd had to reconsider some of the core ED design elements to provide the flexibility needed for future development. Obviously, just some supposition on my part.


*I'm always flabbergasted with how the engineers that developed NTSC were able to get it to work so well given the technology available at the time. Sure PAL and SECAM improved on it but they had NTSC to work with as a starting point. There were attempts to come up with an analog based HDTV that was derived from NTSC but in the end throwing analog out and going with digital HDTV was the best move forward.

 

[ZAKALWEINC8876]

I will definatly hoping someone cleverer(er) than me can tell me where I can aquire such magic ships of shiney magnatism.

o7 CMDRS keep it real

 

[Jack Schitt]

Right now they're kind of a gimmick and make for some interesting free floating knobs

They're a perfect fit for this game then. It's already full of those.

 

[lenna]

And at this point I lost all respect for you. I was going to add to my explanation, but since you have decided I don't have a point I guess I'll save my time. Enjoy your ivory tower.

You just proven my point - enjoy your cave

The generalities of cultural diversity and justifications for more or less diversity in the context of this particular discussion is totally moot. The topic of this particular thread is the Guardian SLFs and FD have established lore covering why things are as they are in this particular context.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…Why are humans considered to be a mess if cultures? By who? Compared to who? For all we know we might be in a galaxy full of diverse cultures and actually be considered exceptionally plain and boring in comparison with any one of them. …

Because SciFi is usually used as a "mirror" for humanity, as a way to write/talk/show about very human topics. Aliens are then used to showcase a specific aspect/idea/concept of human nature the author wants to talk about.

The result are aliens that are very homogenous*

Outside the context of SciFi, members of an alien species would probably look extremely similar - if not identical - to humans. How many humans can differentiate between different individuals of chimpanzees, bonobos, dolphins, robins or lions?

If an alien species is very varied in form and culture humans would probably simply assume that these are different species.

In short, the problem would probably be the inability of humans to differentiate between individuals of a completely different species.


*) and boring as often the intention of the author is obvious

…The topic of this particular thread is the Guardian SLFs and FD have established lore covering why things are as they are in this particular context.

I'm searching for that lore explanation from FDev. Could you point me to it as I can't find it. Thanks.

 

[Cervantes01]

One point Braben made extensively during the game's early years, was that Elite was as scientifically accurate as possible, and that as little technobabble as possible was being inserted into the game, only where absolutely necessary, to account for game mechanics (FTL travel for instance) without which the entire premise of the game (an entire galaxy) would have been impossible. IIRC he featured in at least one article, specifically on this topic.

The new SLFs are just gratuitous space magic. I'm not saying that they don't look cool, actually I dig their aesthetic, but their design doesn't seem to have any other purpose than "trident ships rock".

It's yet another appeal to the console crowd and teenboy yutes and like telepresence is world breaking proof that FD doesn't care about the integrity of their gameworld.

 

[V'larr]

One point Braben made extensively during the game's early years, was that Elite was as scientifically accurate as possible, and that as little technobabble as possible was being inserted into the game, only where absolutely necessary, to account for game mechanics (FTL travel for instance) without which the entire premise of the game (an entire galaxy) would have been impossible. IIRC he featured in at least one article, specifically on this topic.

The new SLFs are just gratuitous space magic. I'm not saying that they don't look cool, actually I dig their aesthetic, but their design doesn't seem to have any other purpose than "trident ships rock".

LOL!

Where was Braben when the term "Telepresence" was cooked up? Good lord.

I guess this goes to show how much direct input he's getting on the game these days.

 

[andrewg_oz]

I don't have a problem with magic in the game. Some magic is necessary - the FSD and the escape pod, for example.

Where I have a problem is with unnecessary magic. For this thread, magic Star Wars pod-racer lighting/magnetic thingys holding the Guardian SLFs together - completely unnecessary. They could have easily had the triangular style, blue glowy bits and some simple struts to hold everything together. Then instead of this thread we'd simply be gushing about how cool they looked. But no....

I could mention other unnecessary magic, like telepresence and materials storage, but that might send this thread way off course.

I find it very disappointing. If I want magic I can play Skyrim or Witcher. If I want hard sci-fi, Elite is still probably my best option, but it is slowing fading.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

I don't have a problem with magic in the game. Some magic is necessary - the FSD and the escape pod, for example.

Where I have a problem is with unnecessary magic. For this thread, magic Star Wars pod-racer lighting/magnetic thingys holding the Guardian SLFs together - completely unnecessary. They could have easily had the triangular style, blue glowy bits and some simple struts to hold everything together. Then instead of this thread we'd simply be gushing about how cool they looked. But no....

I could mention other unnecessary magic, like telepresence and materials storage, but that might send this thread way off course.

I find it very disappointing. If I want magic I can play Skyrim or Witcher. If I want hard sci-fi, Elite is still probably my best option, but it is slowing fading.

If you except shields(forcefield) that can't stop lasers, explosive and kinetic attacks, then why can't a forcefield hold things together?

Why should alien technology be grounded by human technology, seems very unimaginative and boring. Anything alien in the galaxy should be similar to humans?

 

[Tifu]

Correlated magnetics sound very interesting - that's new to me. Thanks for mentioning it. That could indeed open up some possibilities - if the magnetic fields can be shaped in a way that they only affect the area directly between body and wings of the SLF. Otherwise I assume quite some problems when the SLF interacts with anything that might become magnetic in a very, very strong magnetic field.

Looked this up too and found this.

[video=youtube_share;ZLZMJYqEdQw]https://youtu.be/ZLZMJYqEdQw[/video]

 

[Valorin]

I was already a bit annoyed by the magic guardian sentinels, but now we (apparently) get hybrid guardian magic ships as SLFs.

Why magic?
Because how do those free floating elements of the ship stick together without magic? I know it looks cool for some people, but ships like this annoy me a lot.

Something like that would require two separate forces to work against each other, perfect synchronization of the flight patterns (countering all additional forces) to keep the parts together and lossless energy transfer (or power plants in each element).

Argh.

I also disllike it. I wouldn't say it's magic, it's tech. But if we are able to copy that kind of tech, what stops us to use it for other things as well? It's the same kind of inconsistency we have with telepresence and 3D printing ship-launched fighters. For gameplay and coolness reason. Me no like.

 

[Vardaugas]

I also disllike it. I wouldn't say it's magic, it's tech. But if we are able to copy that kind of tech, what stops us to use it for other things as well? It's the same kind of inconsistency we have with telepresence and 3D printing ship-launched fighters. For gameplay and coolness reason. Me no like.

Guardian tech has one limiting factor: Availability of Guardian technology bits salvaged from ruins.

 

[lenna]

If an alien species is very varied in form and culture humans would probably simply assume that these are different species.

In short, the problem would probably be the inability of humans to differentiate between individuals of a completely different species.

In the real world, there are some humans that are unable to appreciate differences in culture of other humans and there are even some that assume that if they look like us then they must have the same culture as us or alternatively assume that if they do not look like us then their culture must be different (even if they are from our own country).

In the case of alien species and cultures, such issues may also persist BUT the key point is that in the sci-fi context the fictional lore around the species/cultures is normally clearly defined (in terms of differences if not in details). For ED, apparently have a detailed encyclopaedia of lore (kept internally) which at least covers the Thargoids (if not also the Guardians and any other species or cultures FD may have planned for the future).

I'm searching for that lore explanation from FDev. Could you point me to it as I can't find it. Thanks.

The Ram Ta mission presents that lore to us in-game via the Obelisk scans, you may be able to find copies of the information elsewhere on fan sites though... the top three items of a google search on "Elite Dangerous Guardian Lore" would perhaps be a good start if you do not want to do the Ram Ta mission. The Canonn site seems to repeat the scanned information verbatim: https://canonn.science/codex/guardians-codex/.

It may not act as a full and direct explanation but the relevant lore does at least present a fairly decent and solid context.

 

[lenna]

Looked this up too and found this.

Nice find... +Rep