Obtaining Guarding tech - is it really such a grind?

[NeilF]

It's ok ... the grind complainers want every mod and weapon at once

Or those who would like to see a supposed reward given by some other maybe more engaging mechanic than having the will power to, point, click, repeat, repeat, repeat?

Or maybe for more engaging, deep and involved gameplay to be developed to actually enjoy, rather than just having more weapons, modules, engineers and ships etc to "earn" before carrying on basically doing what you were doing year(s) ago.

It really does feel at times like most of these 100+ staff are in the art department as so much content seems art heavy and very gameplay light.

 

[Genus]

^

All that in spades.

Except for, 100+? Don't make me laaaaarf.

 

[Scoob]

Well, I did it in the end. So many Sentinels spawning. I got knocked flying a few times even when on flat ground with the SRV's handbrake on. Thankfully 4 pips to shields = minimal damage taken. I managed to park nice and close, but my ship could only protect me from missiles at one end of the site.

I really must looks at my controls config for the SRV, it's very clunky and I need to improve on it. I have it largely set to default for my HOTAS.

So, I have all I need, guardian stuff wise, for the FSD boost. I'm going to log off, and try to get another BP or two tomorrow. Now I have first hand experience of doing this, I sorta "get it" a bit more. It's a bit tedious, but ok I guess.

Oh, I went to log off, but it says it'll move my ship. Will it throw me back into orbit, or just landed near by? I like my current parking spot!

Scoob.

 

[Stealthie]

Oh, I went to log off, but it says it'll move my ship. Will it throw me back into orbit, or just landed near by? I like my current parking spot!

Scoob.

So, don't log off in your ship.

Board it, dump any spare relics, get the SRV repaired and then disembark again.

Then you'll re-start where you were and your ship should remain where you left it.

 

[Scoob]

So, don't log off in your ship.

Board it, dump any spare relics, get the SRV repaired and then disembark again.

Then you'll re-start where you were and your ship should remain where you left it.

Ah. I suspect you told me that in-game - I did say I was a bit tired lol.

I just backed up a couple of hundred metres, landed and logged off without the message. Guess I get to practise my landings a little more next session

Scoob.

 

[Stealthie]

Thinking about it, I seem to recall that you have to be outside the site, even if you're not in your ship.

So, if you park your ship somewhere that the PDT can take out missiles, just board your ship then disembark again and when you log off you'll get the "you'll be moved" message but it'll just be you and your SRV that end up getting moved outside the site.
Your ship will remain parked where you left it.
Which is also handy cos you can just navigate toward your ship to get back to the site if you can't find it.

 

[Lightspeed]

Or those who would like to see a supposed reward given by some other maybe more engaging mechanic than having the will power to, point, click, repeat, repeat, repeat?

Or maybe for more engaging, deep and involved gameplay to be developed to actually enjoy, rather than just having more weapons, modules, engineers and ships etc to "earn" before carrying on basically doing what you were doing year(s) ago.

It really does feel at times like most of these 100+ staff are in the art department as so much content seems art heavy and very gameplay light.

They are in desperate need of a master storyteller with authority, but I think we've had this conversation before.

 

[Spacecat]

Fixed, turreted, medium and large versions of the same weapon need individual unlocks.

This seems unnecessarily obnoxious. even for FD.

 

[M00ka]

Well, I did it in the end. So many Sentinels spawning. I got knocked flying a few times even when on flat ground with the SRV's handbrake on. Thankfully 4 pips to shields = minimal damage taken. I managed to park nice and close, but my ship could only protect me from missiles at one end of the site.

I really must looks at my controls config for the SRV, it's very clunky and I need to improve on it. I have it largely set to default for my HOTAS.

So, I have all I need, guardian stuff wise, for the FSD boost. I'm going to log off, and try to get another BP or two tomorrow. Now I have first hand experience of doing this, I sorta "get it" a bit more. It's a bit tedious, but ok I guess.

Oh, I went to log off, but it says it'll move my ship. Will it throw me back into orbit, or just landed near by? I like my current parking spot!

Scoob.

Congratulations Scoob, I just did the same thing, had to jump back to the surface this morning to pick up a few mats I was short of, then the long trip home to hand in the Exploration data and the relic things I picked up (had to fill the megre DBX cargo hold didn't I). As soon as I was home safe, picked up the HN Shock Mounts I needed, luckily they were available at the station, then one quick jump to the nearest Tech Broker, got the FSD Booster I was after, now about to head home to start swapping ships and buying them. Just for feedback, gained an extra 10 or so LYs with the DBX, now have a jump range of 56.70/56.77/60.43 - good enough for my requirements.

Oh as an added bonus, I found out when selling my exploration data that I had found a system no one else had, yep finally got my First Discover badge and my Commanders name on the GalMap

 

[Scoob]

Congrats yourself M00ka

As I logged out near the site last night, I might do another run for a BP. While I'm only really interested in the FSD Boost at this time, it might be nice to have a BP in reserve...along with whatever materials I can gather easily. I will be going to that other, non active, site though for most of my material and data gathering.

It's a funny thing this mission. I briefly read a guide, but decided to just explore the site first and see what I could figure out. I got ambushed by a Sentinel the moment I exited my ship, didn't expect that, then proceeded to wander around. Those Pillars that pop up to give Relics were an obvious cue to shoot them, so that's the first thing I did - I was trying to see what seemed obvious to do without re-reading the guide. I continued to wander around, and the other pillars - the chargeable ones - started to pop up, along with more Sentinels, so I located all of those. I had some weird issues trying to scan the Obelisk things the first time around, I had trouble targeting them, so only scanned one. I scanned the rest after I'd activated the main orb and scanned it.

The mission felt a bit tedious to me, though now I've done it once, I appreciate how it works. The main issues are around SRV handling. The SRV is constantly snagging / glitching on the terrain. It'll one moment get stuck on the buildings, then go skidding off them - the game really can't handle the SRV going over this stuff well at all. One time it rolled over on its roof - somewhat randomly - and sat there unresponsive for a short while before it started responding to my input once more. That was a bit odd.

The Sentinels themselves are...well, they're not much of a threat really. I was attempting to use cover, pop out and shoot them, draw them near my DBX's PD coverage etc. but, it's really not necessary at all. Three pips each to SYS and WEA means even if you just sit there you rarely go below 50% shields, pop an extra pip to SYS as needed and your shields are barely dented. The movement of the Sentinels is odd, they seem to move somewhat randomly until they get LoS on you, I had no sense of being hunted by them at all. The only time they were potentially dangerous is when they spawned right on top of me.

So, yeah, not a terrible activity, especially considering the potential benefits, but the glitchy SRV handling - and my own quite clunky control configuration - is what makes it a little tiresome at times. I experienced similar SRV handling issues while exploring crash sites, the SRV able to clip into something it should have been stopped by or just driven over, but then after clipping into it collision detection started working and getting out of it was an issue. Oh, on the guardian site, did anyone else notice floating pillars that were not joined to the ground? These were just deco pillars, nothing with a function. Just looked like a Skyrimesque floating trees / rocks thing lol.

It'll be interesting to see what the experience is like the second time around, with it being at not so late an hour and with me not being low on sleep

Scoob.

 

[Sylow]

The mission felt a bit tedious to me, though now I've done it once, I appreciate how it works. The main issues are around SRV handling. The SRV is constantly snagging / glitching on the terrain. It'll one moment get stuck on the buildings, then go skidding off them - the game really can't handle the SRV going over this stuff well at all. One time it rolled over on its roof - somewhat randomly - and sat there unresponsive for a short while before it started responding to my input once more. That was a bit odd.

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I agree that the SRV is a beast to handle and requires a while to drive it well enough. And on the guardian ruins things get a bit worse still.
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On most of the handling, I found that flight/drive assist off makes a lot of a difference, at least for me on HOTAS. The next thing, a lot of controlling the SRV relies on the throttle. Don't drive like a sports car on a motorway. Drive cross-country style. (I know it's easy to talk for me. I learned that during my army time, after all. They drilled me so much that even now, over 20 years later, I remember parts of it. ) The most important thing is: reduce throttle when going up a hill, a little before reaching the peak. Accelerate again when going downhill. Play around with the throttle when doing turns, till you learn how the SRV reacts to that. Proper throttle handling really helps a lot.
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That all being said, the guardian ruins have some surface structure which really is not helping. Sometimes the same thing can be crossed at one angle without even shaking the SRV noticeably, the next time your angle is just slightly different and it suddenly seems like an insurmountable obstacle to the SRV. Once I learned how to recognize those ground spots (took me several rounds on the guardian sites to get a feeling for it), I started hopping over them with the thrusters. That worked well enough for me, at least as long as no sentinel was just nearby and shooting at me. (I tried the thrust-hop exactly once under fire and the sentinel hit me with its knockback attack. It took "spinning out of control" to a new level... )
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[Sylow]

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And on the sentinels: yes, if you approach them carefully and pick them off from a distance, they are pushovers. If you want a challenge, use turret mode and go toe to toe with them. Mobile combat against them, with their knockback attack being able to throw your SRV around, is more of a challenge. But basically it's a tactical mistake you intentionally make to turn them into a challenge. As long as you use range and cover, they are far too easy to eliminate.
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[Oaktree]

It's not a big grind, not a grind at all in my opinion. It used to be, when several blueprints where needed to unlock the weapons and modules from the brokers. You had to repeat the puzzles several times, and that made no sense. But fortunately FD listened to the players and changed it.

And off course, when you're doing the puzzles for the blueprints, you need to fight several sentinels and the knick-knacks they drop are enough to unlock the stuff you need. And you dont need to unlock every stuff the brokers have. Some stuff like the turreted plasma charger are useless in my opinion. Maybe the Epsilon Data stuff is a bit too much but a couple of visits to a ruins site solves that.

 

[Stealthie]

TBH, when I was doing this, I spent hours, days and weeks only using the SRV's turret mode.

After a while you start to think "Well, if I wasn't comfortable doing this before, I will be by the time I'm finished!"

Personally, I reckon the easiest way to kill the Sentinels is to just drive straight at 'em (slowly) with pips set 2/0/4.
As long as you're facing them it's much harder for their weapons to actually flip you over 'cos your SRV is more stable on it's long (front/back) axis.
It's when you get side-on to them that they can flip you over easily because your SRV isn't as stable on it's short (left/right) axis.

For maximum skill-points, try strafing around them while training fire on them with your turret.
Doesn't make killing them any easier but knowing you can steer the SRV and aim the turret at the same time makes you feel like an SRV Superhero.

 

[Scoob]

I've not had quite as much SRV time as you Stealthie, but I've managed ok with normal surface prospecting. The crashed Anaconda site I explored was a bit more tricky due to uneven terrain and many easily clipable obstacles, but the Guardian site was in many ways worse. I think it's because plenty of the obstacles that caused me problems looked like I've be able to drive up / over them just fine. I found myself having to boost-hop from time to time to unstick myself. Not a huge issue I suppose, just a bit of an adjustment.

On another note, I don't think I can face another circuit of the Guardian site this evening, so I might go back to Shinrata, pick up some HN Shock Mount thingies and unlock the FSD Booster. I will doubtless make another trip out that way at some point, but I think I have the main thing I want already. If anything else particularly interesting to me is added to the game, then I'll make another trip.

Edit: Should I dump the Relics in my cargo hold? I can easily get more as needed...

Cheers,

Scoob.

 

[Lightspeed]

I've not had quite as much SRV time as you Stealthie, but I've managed ok with normal surface prospecting. The crashed Anaconda site I explored was a bit more tricky due to uneven terrain and many easily clipable obstacles, but the Guardian site was in many ways worse. I think it's because plenty of the obstacles that caused me problems looked like I've be able to drive up / over them just fine. I found myself having to boost-hop from time to time to unstick myself. Not a huge issue I suppose, just a bit of an adjustment.

On another note, I don't think I can face another circuit of the Guardian site this evening, so I might go back to Shinrata, pick up some HN Shock Mount thingies and unlock the FSD Booster. I will doubtless make another trip out that way at some point, but I think I have the main thing I want already. If anything else particularly interesting to me is added to the game, then I'll make another trip.

Edit: Should I dump the Relics in my cargo hold? I can easily get more as needed...

Cheers,

Scoob.

You can get a decent payment for them at most bases. It's risky carrying them around for a long time because they attract "tasty cargo" NPCs, which you may not want in a less than optimum ship for conflict.

 

[Scoob]

You can get a decent payment for them at most bases. It's risky carrying them around for a long time because they attract "tasty cargo" NPCs, which you may not want in a less than optimum ship for conflict.

I forgot to dump them and have just arrived back in Shinrarta...no "tasty cargo" incidents thankfully. 11,520 credits each Relic, galactic average, so not going to be a game changer for me cash-wise

Scoob.

 

[Monkey Pants]

If you want SRV practise, try turret mode at Dav's Hope when you collect materials there
A 'couple of times' around the track certainly helped me learn especially without Sentinels shooting

 

[Droid8Apple]

It's ok ... the grind complainers want every mod and weapon at once

Sat in front of one obelisk for 2 hours last night to get 78 Epsilon scans. I had never once scanned an obelisk in my life and I ended up having maxed (150) Alpha and Gamma. Beta had 120. Delta has 90. Epsilon had exactly 78. Since I couldn't discard any of them who knows how much it really took. But if we total those and pretend all the times I scanned and got nothing because they were full didn't happen that's 588 scans total. Take 588/3 for simplicity (sometimes I did get 2 types from one scan at ruins opposed to structures) and that is 196 scans. I had to scan an obelisk 196 times (which is more likely to be something like 260 with all the "material full" messages. How long does it take to scan an obelisk? Depends on whether you like insanity or not. Sitting in front of one at ruins will allow you to log out and in extremely fast so that's what I did. Let's say 30 seconds per scan? So for one hour and 36 minutes I did nothing but Start > Solo > turret mode > select target ahead > scan > ESC > exit to main menu > repeat.


I went through all of that to ask you, and especially FD, what about that seems fun? There are some grinding games that are fun and active. Warframe for example. You can change weapons, scenery, frames, etc, with friends and without logging out. Sure, sure... I could 'just get them by playing'. So the maybe 3 obelisk per site I would have gotten while also getting my 3 vessel BP's would have given me 9 scans (remember I needed 588+). That is the kind of grind that is disgusting and unacceptable. The fact that you need 3 of one thing, and then 78 of another that has about a 5% drop chance I'd guess doesn't make any sense. And it sucks. It's why people 'complain about the grind'. Because it's not something even remotely possible to do while having fun. It's not something you can just get by playing the game. Even if you did every guardian site in the game 3 times you probably wouldn't have enough to unlock one of the new fighters. You have no choice but to 'farm' it and 'grind' it opposed to just 'play' it. And everything about the grind from constantly being knocked upside down by sentinels, being stuck on the 'nothings', walls you can't simply drive over (but can scale 2km high mountains with ease), having to be within a very small margin to be able to target the obelisk, having to go into turret mode opposed to just scanning it from cockpit... all things that were specifically designed to take up time opposed to create enjoyment.


I have about 3k hours in Elite. Same in Warframe. I like farming... I hate grinding. It's not about wanting to complain and more so trying to have an intervention for a loved one. You see their potential and know all their good qualities, but if they just stop their addiction (useless timesinking) then they'd be one of the best people you ever met which would benefit themselves instead of hurting themselves- ultimately leading to shorter and more miserable life span.

 

[tolm]

Just completed my first run through the HD 61354 site tonight ... been putting it off for ages (“it’s so far” ... “it’ll be really hard” ...) but was inspired by this thread to just get on with it! First time I’d logged in to Elite for ages but I got my DBX out of storage, downgraded the shields to make room for 2 SRVs, stuck Point Defense turrets on the top and headed off on a 21 jump jaunt from V374 Pegasi.

First surprise .... 148,000LS SC trip at the other end! Oh well ... wasn’t too bad.

Landing near the site was tricky but I eventually managed to find a spot right next to one of the corners of the structure - very close indeed! I had an online map of the site but I couldn’t get my bearings for ages so I wound up driving around, shooting Destructible Panels for various McGuffins and trying to get a feel for the layout. Took me a while and only a couple of Sentinels popped up which weren’t too hard to deal with: heard my ships PD going off a few times to save me from the missiles but not always so I took a few spills.

Eventually realised I could drive up a really steep hill to get to the main pylons / relic drop point ... *doh*

Then did two runs of only shooting the pylons once before I realised you need to keep shooting ‘em until the blue light beam shines out the top into the sky ... *doh*

At that point, 4 sentinels turned up and it got a little hairy. Ran out of SRV ammo (luckily I had some synthesis ... I hadn’t checked beforehand!!) and got my hull dropped to 49% but managed to peg it back and release the data-orb thingy.

Now ... how to scan it ... awesome, not only are the controls on the SRV different to the ship but the GUI feedback on the fact that it’s scanning is different too! Eventually figured it out.

So ... now have 1x Module Blueprint, 54x Power Cells, 12x Power Conduits, 21x Tech Components Plus some scrap and sentinel weapon parts! Oh, and motion sickness ... I HATE THE SRV!!!!

Tomorrow I will be off to collect HN Whatsits and Focus Crystals to unlock the FSD Booster and and get my multi-role Krait to circa 42 LY. And my Combat ‘vette to around 30LY. Nice.