Round Up of 3.3 Impressions - FDev Community Visit

znôrt

znôrt
Max Factor said:
I never said criticism was biased. But saying stuff stinks of damage control, when it really doesn't is very much a biased view point and not a criticism.

You don't need need to be positive or negative. Criticise what needs to be criticised (like the NDA which doesn't make much sense and is neither positive or negative thing to say). But leave your biased negative opinions at the door (like the damage control statement) well that is how you should act if you abide by your own standards that is.
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honestly, i think you still don't get the difference between bias and criticism. if i were playing 'Max Factor' i'd say you have a bias against nda. nda are a well established thing in the industry and have strong reasons to be.

that i have different views doesn't mean they're biased. e.g. i could document several reasons for damage control making sense in this context. i won't because you know them very well too ... it's just, you're biased not to take them into account :)

anyway, silly discussion. we just spoiled alec's happy end. i feel sad now ...
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Ian Phillips
Can we (you) stop the personal arguments please.

If you have something to say that is relevant to the premise of the thread, then please do so.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
znôrt said:
honestly, i think you still don't get the difference between bias and criticism. if i were playing 'Max Factor' i'd say you have a bias against nda. nda are a well established thing in the industry and have strong reasons to be.
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Nope I have nothing against NDA's in general as they serve a purpose. In this case, it does not. Not one that I can see anyway.

znôrt said:
that i have different views doesn't mean they're biased. e.g. i could document several reasons for damage control making sense in this context. i won't because you know them very well too ... it's just, you're biased not to take them into account :)
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Personal opinions are always biased. As to me being biased with me thinking that damage control is wrong, I very well may be as it is a personal opinion.

As to documenting your reasons, please do. I always take things into account and I am always happy to change my mind it I think I have made a mistake. But remember these reasons will be your own subjective opinions. Others may feel differently about your reasons.

To criticise you need to state facts, not your personal opinion or interpretation of something.

Don't confuse criticism and opinion.

znôrt said:
anyway, silly discussion. we just spoiled alec's happy end. i feel sad now ...
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Don't feel sad. I'm sure Alec will survive. It's not like he is seven years old.
 

sorcer3r

S
Bigmaec said:
I still have no idea why this was done.

Inviting people there to show them stuff. Ok, I get that.
"Famous" streamers even, ok, I get that too.
Letting them sign a NDA then so they can't tell about that? Why?
I don't get that part. Building up Hype? No one is building up hype by vague statements.
Is it to just pay OA et al. a nice trip to FD and pay them a Hotel and lunch? Good for them, but I still don't get it :S
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It worries me the most that the same already has happend before 2.4 and that is one of the reasons why I should not get hyped about the Q4 update because 2.4 was IMO unfortunatley a huge dissapointment.

It would be also better if Frontier had invited at least one player who doesn't play ED anymore. In that case I and maybe some others would also feel kind of "represented". ;)


ps:
@visitors: Is the surface POI mechanic still the same? (Huge circle and no possibility to detect objects with ship sensors?)
 

Dutchman141

Dutchman141
Max Factor said:
Nope I have nothing against NDA's in general as they serve a purpose. In this case, it does not. Not one that I can see anyway.
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What's this? Something we actually agree upon?

NDA is a necessity, it protects a company's or person's intellectual property.
I remember a colleague of mine who shared some techniques we used on an application we developed.
He shared it with the very same costumer who ordered the application, so he thought it was okay.
Heh, never saw him back in the office after my boss found out about it.

In this case an NDA is just frustrating a lot of people, something that could've been prevented by Fdev.
Inviting people over, show them cool stuff and shutting them up at the same time is not good pr imho.

Still, despite the NDA I think the invitees are doing a good job reporting that little of what they can.
 

Dave G

D
To me, this all sounds rather good.

However, too much sugar, not enough salt... so please FD, announce that as part of this release, you will be reseting all the "first discovered"s in the game so we have to start again with the new system.

That will be a large order of your saltiest salt from the Salt mines of Saltium, with a side dish of forum meltdown

It would be hilarious though :)
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Dutchman141 said:
What's this? Something we actually agree upon?
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We can't have that can we. We must be doing something wrong.

Dutchman141 said:
NDA is a necessity, it protects a company's or person's intellectual property.
I remember a colleague of mine who shared some techniques we used on an application we developed.
He shared it with the very same costumer who ordered the application, so he thought it was okay.
Heh, never saw him back in the office after my boss found out about it.
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Yup. An NDA has a good reason to exist.

Dutchman141 said:
In this case an NDA is just frustrating a lot of people, something that could've been prevented by Fdev.
Inviting people over, show them cool stuff and shutting them up at the same time is not good pr imho.
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It just doesn't make much sense to me. But hey, not my company.

Dutchman141 said:
Still, despite the NDA I think the invitees are doing a good job reporting that little of what they can.
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This has gotta stop. Another thing we both agree on.

To be fair, we probably agree on a lot more then you realise. I like to play devils advocate.
 

CmdMarty

C
Wish for once that updates were done right the 1st time and didnt all have to be revisited later, seems like a lot of wasted money/dev time imo.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Criticism is always subjective. It can contain objective observations, true. But criticism is always byproduct of bias.

And that's fine. Why people always up in arms when this is brought up I don't know. Do you really think you score some Internet points when being hip and critical about big bad game developers? Seriously :) We are all essentially wasting time here arguing about zeroes and ones...and that's cool by the way, as long as name calling and cynicism is kept at low levels.
 
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