That's easy. You get an FDev employee to stand behind every player and if they get disconnected from the game the FDev asks whether they did it on purpose or not
The Fix For Combat Logging (MENU LOG)
- Thread starter Swizzy o7o7
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That's easy. You get an FDev employee to stand behind every player and if they get disconnected from the game the FDev asks whether they did it on purpose or not
For one off cases not at all, benefit of a doubt and all that.
But if someone keeps disconnecting when they are about to be destroyed and has had numerous reports, then they really shouldn’t be allowed into Open. In such cases the player in question either is combat logging, or has a terrible internet connection. Both cases they shouldn’t be in Open and stick to solo/private mode for a duration. The former would learn not to combat log on players or face expulsion from open, and the latter would either be content with solo/private or go fix their internet connection for stability.
In some cases it's got nothing to do with internet connectivity
I've got an old i5 running a R9 280 and an ageing power supply that can't quite provide it's requirements. It bricks itself every time the GPU tries to handle certain events in a consistent and reliable fashion, and I keep it around both as a curiosity and for the lulz
The Karma system is a solid idea for automating the capturing of trends over time. One of the most heated discussions on the topic of CLogging was over where to draw the lines that delineate acceptable and bannable rates of occurance.
Thread: An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2
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So, because I believe you are being intentionally obtuse, but I want to make certain there is no misunderstanding, I will spell out my entire chain of thought.
The OP is NOT about consensual PvP or bounty hunting or any other tripe that is normally thrown into these arguments to obfuscate the argument. It is about the OP demanding that they be given an unfair advantage in the game mechanics when they attack another player. Specifically, it is about changing the 15 second logout to effectively not exist, but the OP wasn't willing, for whatever reason, to come out and state that explicitly, instead caviling with his reset every time they get hit.
YOU called logging out to avoid a conflict that the logging player didn't want in the first place, but that Frontier has explicitly said is a legitimate methodology, "unscrupulous behavior over fair play".
Given that the OP is talking about controlling the behavior of another person's GAME, not their gameplay, but the game itself, I responded to your statement that I hoped, and, yes, my grammar was less than optimal because I was tired, that I hoped you were trying to be a joke. My reason for that is the fact that you seem to be agreeing with holding someone's game hostage and further implying that it is NOT "unscrupulous behavior" but that using a technique that Frontier itself said is ok IS.
You then used an extreme example to justify your position which just happens to have gone off topic from the original discussion.
Finally, to address the idea that combat logging is bad, it has already been addressed, officially. As to me, I stand by my original position. I will 100% support the OP so long as, once per week, I can target lock a ship that is shooting me and instantly destroy it. That would be an equal situation given that the OP is discussing FORCING the other player to stay in game to be destroyed since I would be controlling your game to the exact same extent that you are controlling mine.
Otherwise, what is being asked for is to skew the game mechanics in favor of the attacker. I will point out that what that will do is make the game less populated by non-combat focused players because they already get punished twice for dying (loss of cargo and supplies, then the rebuy cost), and ensuring that they die is not going to be seen as a good thing. Once that becomes common knowledge (ever heard of Reddit, Facebook, etc?), those people will not come to play.
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The Attackers CLog (by whatever means) too. It is the more frustrating problem.
Indeed. While I find all combat logs ungraceful and offputting, the most frustrating times, for me, are when it’s an attacker logging on me. As the discussion here is not around the severed connection, but rather the menu log, I’ll direct my comment at that. I find two things annoying about it. One, the timer allows a player to effectively “cheat” their way out of danger and that’s unsportsmanlike. The second is from the point where one genuinely has to leave the computer for whatever reason, and it can’t wait. I think once someone decides to log out, the timer should be automated and no further input required to exit the game. Once the timer is finished, the game closes. Right now you’re stuck waiting to confirm. This is sort of ridiculous. I’ve lost several ships because I simply could not wait for rl reasons and refused to sever the connection.
So in brief, one change is to deal with effective misuse of the function and the other is a much needed qol improvement.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realised, the OP is a Griefer!! I encountered Him at the Gnosis Where he was immediately added to block list and never seen again (after heartlessly murdering one of my friends in an unarmed exploration Krait)!
Unless this is somehow a different person with the exact same CMDR name (even with the o7 o7 at the end) We all know the intentions behind this post... and they aren't good
BUSTED!
I just realised, the OP is a Griefer!! I encountered Him at the Gnosis Where he was immediately added to block list and never seen again (after heartlessly murdering one of my friends in an unarmed exploration Krait)!
Unless this is somehow a different person with the exact same CMDR name (even with the o7 o7 at the end) We all know the intentions behind this post... and they aren't good
BUSTED!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realised, the OP is a Griefer!! I encountered Him at the Gnosis Where he was immediately added to block list and never seen again (after heartlessly murdering one of my friends in an unarmed exploration Krait)!
Unless this is somehow a different person with the exact same CMDR name (even with the o7 o7 at the end) We all know the intentions behind this post... and they aren't good
BUSTED!
He’s neither busted nor hiding his in game identity. Also attacking character does not equal attacking the argument.
I agree on the timer automatically log you out when it ends. So you can choose the option and leave.
So you always come back to the menu/desktop, and have to login to know if you survived or not.
Possibly have an additional timer for combat? If you deploy hardpoints, or maybe do damage to another ship, for the remainder of that combat instance if you decide to menu log, the timer is increased to 60? 120? seconds. And the same for a 'disconnection', if you were in that combat state, additional timer.
I know, that might not be enough for people in combat builds who enjoy 'role playing and pirating' defenseless builds, but it might at least address the issue of actual aggressors menu logging to escape a situation they initiated. That I would agree is an argument that has some real merit. For the most part this thread is ' my game enjoyment > your game enjoyment '. There's not really anything FD can do that will satisfy everyone and not off someone.
I know, that might not be enough for people in combat builds who enjoy 'role playing and pirating' defenseless builds, but it might at least address the issue of actual aggressors menu logging to escape a situation they initiated. That I would agree is an argument that has some real merit. For the most part this thread is ' my game enjoyment > your game enjoyment '. There's not really anything FD can do that will satisfy everyone and not off someone.
Interesting idea. There are a number of possibilities but aside from those who use current menu logging as a defensive strategy, we can all agree something needs tweaking. As is, it’s not great for anyone involved.
I haven't thought of it like this, I am glad to read a new intriguing suggestions like this.
If you engage in a fight you have to commit to the fight or try to escape fight, not Menu log.
We then know what would happen, they will just do the actual combat log by a network disconnect or Alt-F4 mechanics.
There are a number of possibilities here:
A. Some of the old timers that grew up on the original 84 Elite have spent so much time sitting in front of a computer they now have weak bladders but still get themselves stuck in situations where they try to make it to a safe dock before wetting themselves.
The 15 second menu log should finish itself and disconnect.
B. Some people would really like to be sociable, make friends, form lasting relationships and enjoy the journey through an environment that lets them RP things they can't do in RL as a space trucker, explorer, or some other non-combat, minimal hassle profession.
If attacked, they'd like an option to evacuate fairly quickly.
C. Some love the challenge of PvP, because AI tends to be predictable and too easy in most situations, failing to satisfy their desire for white knuckle, adrenaline fueled excitement. They might play CQC if anyone else did, or they could use their engineered fleet.
Getting clogged enables chickens to ruin their achievement.
D. Cue contempt for muck dwellers and bottom feeders who had a bad day at work, yelled at their spouse, kicked the dog, terrorised the kids and decided to inflict any remaining vitriol on poor, unsuspecting newbs in LHS 3447 to totally gank their day too.
But, little did they know that Mostly Harmless Sidewinder contained a seasoned pro, that just wiped their save, and knows exactly how to disable and kill an engineered Cutter, with extreme prejudice. The bully hadn't expected that of course, and clogs out.
This D. group is the one that needs to be addressed with some urgency. If you are the one that drew first blood, it is only fair that you should face the deadly consequences of your actions, should your 'victim' turn out to be a black belt in fiendish disguise.
They could pull the plug, but why not lock the coward in?
A. Some of the old timers that grew up on the original 84 Elite have spent so much time sitting in front of a computer they now have weak bladders but still get themselves stuck in situations where they try to make it to a safe dock before wetting themselves.
The 15 second menu log should finish itself and disconnect.
B. Some people would really like to be sociable, make friends, form lasting relationships and enjoy the journey through an environment that lets them RP things they can't do in RL as a space trucker, explorer, or some other non-combat, minimal hassle profession.
If attacked, they'd like an option to evacuate fairly quickly.
C. Some love the challenge of PvP, because AI tends to be predictable and too easy in most situations, failing to satisfy their desire for white knuckle, adrenaline fueled excitement. They might play CQC if anyone else did, or they could use their engineered fleet.
Getting clogged enables chickens to ruin their achievement.
D. Cue contempt for muck dwellers and bottom feeders who had a bad day at work, yelled at their spouse, kicked the dog, terrorised the kids and decided to inflict any remaining vitriol on poor, unsuspecting newbs in LHS 3447 to totally gank their day too.
But, little did they know that Mostly Harmless Sidewinder contained a seasoned pro, that just wiped their save, and knows exactly how to disable and kill an engineered Cutter, with extreme prejudice. The bully hadn't expected that of course, and clogs out.
This D. group is the one that needs to be addressed with some urgency. If you are the one that drew first blood, it is only fair that you should face the deadly consequences of your actions, should your 'victim' turn out to be a black belt in fiendish disguise.
They could pull the plug, but why not lock the coward in?
Pardon me for going slightly off topic, but I think I now understand why there are individuals with bounties greater than 1Mil flying around, could it be that they combat log when they're in a no win situation ?.
I was at the CG HAZ-RES yesterday, there was a Corvette with Krait II escort, 4mil bounty, how is it possible for a individual to accumulate such a high bounty, surely someone or a group must have tried to kill him but he's survived, how, combat logging perhaps ?.
I then tried a social experiment (in my Vulture), With so many PvP clean do-gooders around with large powerful ships I thought to myself, "myself why not attack the 4 mil bounty and see whether the others will jump in and together we can wreck him". I managed to get his shields down to 40% but by then I was down to 25% hull and static, end result obvious "boom"....
What surprised me was that not a single clean "do-gooder" jumped in, there was two flashy Corvettes, a Krait II, a Anaconda, a flashy Challenger, and two Vultures, not one joined the fight, so much for the community goal)
I realise that there's nothing to compel anyone to jump into a PvP fight, but come on guys 8 against 2 is great odds, who cares who gets the bounty, why not jump in and have some fun against a "Gankster". Where's the fun in going "pew pew" at NPC's in OPEN with massively overpowered ships, might as well stay in Solo for that.
Conclusion, Open is a place to observe and be subjected to Idiotic, bizarre, nonsensical human behaviour, a lot like any Full Moon party at a Thai Island beach, the difference is that occasionally a tourist is arrested by the Thai Police.
After being to several CG's in Open, I now realise that the only value PVP has for a individual is to check it's skill level, however its fruitless as combat in Open is a arms race as most PVP/Ganksters have large heavily engineered ships which are impossible to beat in a medium or small ship, no matter how "git gud" one is.
Thank you F-Dev for having different modes, my experiment with Open is done, I'll have fun in Solo with my vulture as NPC's are the same in all modes. Yes for me its all about Individual fun and I really don't need the annoyance of being trounced in my Vulture/Explorer/T9 by a massively over engineered Gankster.
I was at the CG HAZ-RES yesterday, there was a Corvette with Krait II escort, 4mil bounty, how is it possible for a individual to accumulate such a high bounty, surely someone or a group must have tried to kill him but he's survived, how, combat logging perhaps ?.
I then tried a social experiment (in my Vulture), With so many PvP clean do-gooders around with large powerful ships I thought to myself, "myself why not attack the 4 mil bounty and see whether the others will jump in and together we can wreck him". I managed to get his shields down to 40% but by then I was down to 25% hull and static, end result obvious "boom"....
What surprised me was that not a single clean "do-gooder" jumped in, there was two flashy Corvettes, a Krait II, a Anaconda, a flashy Challenger, and two Vultures, not one joined the fight, so much for the community goal
)I realise that there's nothing to compel anyone to jump into a PvP fight, but come on guys 8 against 2 is great odds, who cares who gets the bounty, why not jump in and have some fun against a "Gankster". Where's the fun in going "pew pew" at NPC's in OPEN with massively overpowered ships, might as well stay in Solo for that.
Conclusion, Open is a place to observe and be subjected to Idiotic, bizarre, nonsensical human behaviour, a lot like any Full Moon party at a Thai Island beach, the difference is that occasionally a tourist is arrested by the Thai Police.
After being to several CG's in Open, I now realise that the only value PVP has for a individual is to check it's skill level, however its fruitless as combat in Open is a arms race as most PVP/Ganksters have large heavily engineered ships which are impossible to beat in a medium or small ship, no matter how "git gud" one is.
Thank you F-Dev for having different modes, my experiment with Open is done, I'll have fun in Solo with my vulture as NPC's are the same in all modes. Yes for me its all about Individual fun and I really don't need the annoyance of being trounced in my Vulture/Explorer/T9 by a massively over engineered Gankster.
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What surprised me was that not a single clean "do-gooder" jumped in, there was two flashy Corvettes, a Krait II, a Anaconda, a flashy Challenger, and two Vultures, not one joined the fight, so much for the community goal
I realise that there's nothing to compel anyone to jump into a PvP fight, but come on guys 8 against 2 is great odds, who cares who gets the bounty, why not jump in and have some fun against a "Gankster".
The answer is in your own message: no incentive. A lot of players optimise their money grind, they compare "credits per hour" of different activities and concentrate on the lucrative ones. Whether it's NPCs or ganksters, the "winner takes it all" (well, the last shot takes it all) rule for collecting bounties would need to change. The rule also causes antisocial behaviour at RES sites and such. Just the other day I went in to collect some bounties and work on my abysmal combat rating. A wing of two cmdrs was there too. They several times shamelessly came to collect bounties for targets I had softened first. When I tried to return the favour, they attacked me and I had to wake out. Yes, some would call this "emergent content", but in my books it's a game mechanic that encourages antisocial behaviour and sours the community spirit. Couldn't the bounty be split between the ships that inflicted most damage (with a threshold on damage and bounty sum)? The same mechanism should also be applied to NPCs, so that players can't leech bounties off the cops at RES sites, a tactic I've always found cowardly and reeking of an exploit.
Now before PvP apologists on their high horses rush in to convict me to the eternal loneliness of Solo (or "git gud" - would love to watch them take on two big ships in a Viper), I want to say: mostly Open is an okay place. I play practically only in Open. Usually, people don't even acknowledge your presence (or max. throw an "o7" in the chat), and if you steer clear of the CGs and such, likelihood of encountering gankers is low. But sometimes, you get that gentleman pirate who actually makes demands and lets you live if you drop a decent amount of cargo. Or, when your SRV is facing too many Sentinels and your ship is too far for the PD to work, a friendly stranger appears out of nowhere and rams the sentinels. Or you just happen to spot someone's ship at a Guardian site and when they're unresponsive (probably using the loo or getting a beer), decide to surprise them by hopping on top of their ship, but end up upside down next to it without being able to use the thrusters, much to their amusement. (True story, happened to m... a friend.)
I'd disagree with the part about taking a KWS to a Low, regular or High Res to 'help' the cops as this is one of the few ways a new player can generate much needed starting cash in relative safety, once they find out that semi-broken mechanic exists.
As an old fart, who kicked the adrenaline habit, having backup nearby if you accidentally bite off more than you can chew might prevent a fatal coronary, closely followed by a dead ship, and nobody to complete the rebuy, or buy more paint packs, lol
OPEN Haz-Rez can be fun, but not when a player ignores your wing invite and stabs you in the back while engaging a Conda and it's SLF. Somehow they one-shot a ~30% hole in the hull and wiped out my shield gen. Lucky my FDL has G5 Dirty Drives...
Never did like surprises, NPCs are a lot more predictable.
Yes, what I was thinking was that if you disconnected ( intentionally or not ) your character would stay in game, completely vulnerable for a couple of minutes before the game logged them out. You could very easily come back at the re-buy screen.
It would ofc be an annoyance if you actually did legitimately crash, but that should be pretty rare. And if you did have connection issues it would be something you'd probably already be aware of and be able to decide if the risk was worth it depending on where/what you are doing.
So if actively engaging in a fight an alt-f4 would not help you.
Your client runs the game and broadcasts "you" to everyone else in your instance. If you are no longer there, for whatever reason, there is no "you" to stay in the game, and no redundant client anywhere to take over "you" and keep broadcasting you to everyone else in your instance. The servers don't run "you" as a game entity either, and so couldn't keep you in-instance while your client reconnects.
At this time yes, but if we're talking about possible fixes / changes? I don't code but if one game can do it that way, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be possible to do the same in another. Maybe it's too much work but just throwing out an idea =)