How long would a ship need to remain persistent to prevent a menu log from being abused?

[Morbad]

As a rule, I prefer to decide when I stop playing a video game for myself.

You can, always.

However, this should not automatically mean your in-game character is safe and if your stopping play coincides with your character being in danger too regularly, steps should be taken to dissuade this behavior and/or remove game assets that should have been lost.

 

[Maro-Val]

As a rule, I prefer to decide when I stop playing a video game for myself.

Your apply YOUR life's rules in a game that your virtual presence affects other people and you present it in a way, that it is some kind of a rule that others in your instance should accept.
Your door bell ringing or your dog banging the sofa, isnt a reason to make your in-game character disappear in front of another human in an interaction that YOU chose to initiate in the first place, by selecting to play in open mode.
And if that interaction is combat, then you are simply combat log your way out of the situation and at the same time, you create excuses that are irrelevant to say the least, to the rest of the players.

You are clearly confused.

 

[Stealthie]

Your apply YOUR life's rules in a game that your virtual presence affects other people and you present it in a way, that it is some kind of a rule that others in your instance should accept.
Your door bell ringing or your dog banging the sofa, isnt a reason to make your in-game character disappear in front of another human in an interaction that YOU chose to initiate in the first place, by selecting to play in open mode.
And if that interaction is combat, then you are simply combat log your way out of the situation and at the same time, you create excuses that are irrelevant to say the least, to the rest of the players.

You are clearly confused.

Why are you fixating on interactions with other players?

The menu-log timer appears in a whole variety of situations, only one of which involves another player.

PvP is incidental to the issue and it'd be unwise for people to overestimate their importance in my choice to stop playing a game.

 

[EUS]

I miss the day of CS, CS : S

Me: g2g
P1: bye
P2: cya
..
Px: l8a
~ quit

No whining.

 

[Audaxxx]

Any other decent space sim I've played has had at least a 15 min persistence if logging of whilst engaged in combat. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, 15 seconds is a bit of a joke. For all those saying "but what happens if mu doorbell wings" It doesn't mean you can't log off within that time, you log off straight away but your ship stays in game. I'm sure they could do this easily even using P2P as it only really needs to be persistence for the players still in the instance.

 

[Maro-Val]

Why are you fixating on interactions with other players?

The menu-log timer appears in a whole variety of situations, only one of which involves another player.

PvP is incidental to the issue and it'd be unwise for people to overestimate their importance in my choice to stop playing a game.

Because thats what i like to do. Human interactions is the main point imo, otherwise no one else cares if you log yourself out from an npc. Also read again, i started typing my opinion in a very spesific way. First 8 words on the following, should explain it to you if you read it again.

If you are getting hit by a human so "in danger" state and you log off or task kill, then your ship should go boom and the attacker gets the kill.

 

[Dietger]

YOU DIE WHEN YOU DIE

:x





​

ps

Angus Watson;
And beside, being soft on exploits is only getting you as much.

 

[Stealthie]

Because thats what i like to do. Human interactions is the main point imo, otherwise no one else cares if you log yourself out from an npc. Also read again, i started typing my opinion in a very spesific way. First 8 words on the following, should explain it to you if you read it again.

Then perhaps you need to adopt a broader understanding of the issue being discussed in this thread?

Extending the menu-log timer would impact on ALL situations where a player logs out while "in danger" - such as, for example, when a ship is parked at a Guardian Ruins site.

It's not simply an issue related to PvP so it's narrow-minded and foolish to only think of it that way.


Also, your suggestions for what should happen as a result of mid-PvP disconnection are ridiculous and would only serve to encourage IP manipulation, thus obliterating PvP completely.
If that's your intention, nice work.
If it's not, you might want to take another stab at it.

 

[Maro-Val]

Any other decent space sim I've played has had at least a 15 min persistence if logging of whilst engaged in combat. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, 15 seconds is a bit of a joke. For all those saying "but what happens if mu doorbell wings" It doesn't mean you can't log off within that time, you log off straight away but your ship stays in game. I'm sure they could do this easily even using P2P as it only really needs to be persistence for the players still in the instance.

Exactly. And in case you got smart in the middle of a pvp fight and thinking of door bells while things go south, when you log back in, your game client reads from the server the flag that you are dead and you go to rebuy screen. That way you can go about your life and the other guy gets the kill. Everybody is happy.
But some people like to create silly excuses.

 

[Autoculto]

Believe me, 15 seconds is a long time if you've got a puppy that looks like it needs a crap.

 

[Maro-Val]

Then perhaps you need to adopt a broader understanding of the issue being discussed in this thread?

Extending the menu-log timer would impact on ALL situations where a player logs out while "in danger" - such as, for example, when a ship is parked at a Guardian Ruins site.

It's not simply an issue related to PvP so it's narrow-minded and foolish to only think of it that way.


Also, your suggestions for what should happen as a result of mid-PvP disconnection are ridiculous and would only serve to encourage IP manipulation, thus obliterating PvP completely.
If that's your intention, nice work.
If it's not, you might want to take another stab at it.

Yes the menu-log timer affects all the situations in game, but i chose to present an opinion on what matters most imo, in my posts and thats human interactions that you dont give a crap about because its a game right? What you do on a guardian site when you are alone, i cannot see and i dont care.
My suggestions are ridiculous? lol. Then we all should adopt your way of playing (by being absent) online multiplayer games.

 

[Stealthie]

Exactly. And in case you got smart in the middle of a pvp fight and thinking of door bells while things go south, when you log back in, your game client reads from the server the flag that you are dead and you go to rebuy screen. That way you can go about your life and the other guy gets the kill. Everybody is happy.
But some people like to create silly excuses.

You either don't understand the problem of IP manipulation, or you do understand it and you're okay with the chaos it'd cause.

My suggestions are ridiculous? lol. Then we all should adopt your way of playing (by being absent) online multiplayer games.

In case you hadn't noticed, the game's already set up to cater for my way of playing. [up]

 

[Nadreck]

Your apply YOUR life's rules in a game that your virtual presence affects other people and you present it in a way, that it is some kind of a rule that others in your instance should accept.
Your door bell ringing or your dog banging the sofa, isnt a reason to make your in-game character disappear in front of another human in an interaction that YOU chose to initiate in the first place, by selecting to play in open mode.
And if that interaction is combat, then you are simply combat log your way out of the situation and at the same time, you create excuses that are irrelevant to say the least, to the rest of the players.

You are clearly confused.

When my doorbell rings, it's generally a real human being ringing it. And when another family member calls me, well I'm pretty sure they are real people too. The notion that a person in a pretend space-battle should automatically take precedence over a family member or delivery guy is... odd, to say the least.

Nobody else gets to decide that.

 

[Aashenfox]

You either don't understand the problem of IP manipulation, or you do understand it and you're okay with the chaos it'd cause.



In case you hadn't noticed, the game's already set up to cater for my way of playing. [up]

Please elaborate on what you see as the problem with IP manipulation in relation to this topic?

 

[Maro-Val]

You either don't understand the problem of IP manipulation, or you do understand it and you're okay with the chaos it'd cause.



In case you hadn't noticed, the game's already set up to cater for my way of playing. [up]

You keep patronizing me in your posts as if you are smarter than me, but in reality you are creating excuses to defend your way of "playing". I wont even comment at the ignorant mention of IP manipulation.

 

[Stealthie]

Please elaborate on what you see as the problem with IP manipulation in relation to this topic?

The fact that if the game automatically destroyed a player's ship if they "exited ungracefully" it'd create a gigantic incentive to make use of IP manipulation tools to disconnect other players from the game.

With that little nugget of stupid in place, I could just sit at Jameson Memorial and kick every other player in my instance for the rebuy lulz.

 

[Maro-Val]

When my doorbell rings, it's generally a real human being ringing it. And when another family member calls me, well I'm pretty sure they are real people too. The notion that a person in a pretend space-battle should automatically take precedence over a family member or delivery guy is... odd, to say the least.

Nobody else gets to decide that.

You try to create false excuses like the other guy tries. Who on earth told somebody to stop dealing with his real life? Did anyone tell that if someone rings your bell you should ignore him/her because you are playing a game? Thats what you understood from the discussion?

 

[Wyldwiisel]

I think 15 secs is fine however if in an instance with another commander then they should remain persistent for 3 mins mainly because when I Rob people they tend to combat log and when I ask for cargo you end up waiting for a response or for one of those new gaurdian cloaking devices to kick in eiether way it's annoying 3 mins gives you long enough to say well this guy ain't answering because he has logged and then gives you enough time to pop him

 

[Wyldwiisel]

This IP manipulation would only work if the commander was in your instance shooting you and would be easily reportable if a commander has a series of kills from combat logging then you have evidence from player reports and bountys and combat logging wouldn't be very common because they know they will die anyway in 3mins plus there are suites of programs that can identify people cheating CSGO for example uses this tech
And let's face it the game is 100 times more reliable than what it once was I can play all day and not have a single disconect on the live game

 

[Nadreck]

If a battle is interrupted because of a real-life crisis, there is no way of automating the task of "guessing who would have won". So automatic destruction of the leaver's ship is inappropriate. It would be fairer to call it a draw, with neither ship being destroyed.

But instead FDev have provided a means of quitting which hands a significant advantage to the remaining player - 15 seconds of unopposed action. Seems more than fair to me.

And if he fails to destroy the ship in that time... so what? Why should it matter? If the other guy quits, you've WON. And if you were trying to stop him from doing something specific, like delivering a cargo or attacking another ship... then he won't be doing that anyhow, so well done! (OK, a bit annoying if you're a pirate, but you could pick a passing NPC instead).

If the other kid wants to take his ball and go home, then so what? it's only a game .